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Can I get some advice on "Dog Whisperer" training?

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 
I have just learned of Caesar Milan, and his method of "coexisting" with dogs and I am floored because the information about the energy and instincts are right along with my parenting philosophy. (In fact, some of what he says could totally help me with my kids! )

Since I am not familiar with dogs, and I have my first one now, I have some questions - about how to do this (or any) training with young children.

- Are the kids other "members of the dogs pack?" (They are 5,3 and 1)
- What do you do with the dog when the kids are too excited and chasing the dog around and freaking out? (Or what do you do with the kids? Can I get them cages? : )
-What if you can't walk the dog everyday? I thought a big yard was a substitute but on his show he talks about how dogs work for their food in nature and is good to stick to that.
post #2 of 23
Dogs and kids--yes, my kids are "members of the pack." I am careful to not put the kids in positions of authority except when they can enforce their authority. For example, my older kids feed the dogs b/c they can give the sit/stay command, put the bowl down, and give the release and the dogs will respect them. I ask the older kids to let the dogs in/put them out, because the door routine (sit/stay/wait for release) is ingrained in the dogs. My kids don't do the high authority things, like call barking dogs off the fence. I don't want my dogs to get in the habit of ignoring the kids, so I don't let them practice it.

Maybe your 5yo could do feeding (with help and practice,) but I don't see the 1 & 3yo's commanding respect.

My dogs are.not.allowed. to take food from the baby. Period. Even if he offers (which he does.) This requires me to be on my toes, which I am. My mantra "the days are long, but the years are short."

My dogs are also not allowed to roughhouse indoors--too much opportunity to knock down the baby. He's a tough little guy, I'm not so much concerned about him getting hurt as I am concerned about the dogs disrespecting him.

What do I do with the dog when the kids are wild? My dogs are a lean 84 and 88lbs. I can't let them participate in wild play with my kids--just can't. If it's just my kids, my dogs go in down/stay on their beds, b/c they have the self discipline to stay there. If they didn't have the self discipline, I would up their training and confine them until they did have the self discipline. My kids are required to leave the dogs alone. At 7 and 10, it isn't an issue. I approach my 2yo and the dogs just like I would any other fragile/hazardous thing (banging toys on the window, etc.) I redirect him. I remove him from the situation. Some days he spends more time in the ergo or in his high chair with crayons, y/k?

When my kids have friends over and there is wild play going on, the dogs go in my bedroom with the door shut, or the kids go outside. I dont' want my dogs making protective/herding decisions on anyone's kids.

walking--I do walk my dogs v. frequently. When I had a puppy, I taught him to retrieve so that he could get at least some exercise on the days when the kids and I were sick and it was raining and dh was out of town. I also teach a ton of commands & tricks. Mental exercise isn't quite as good as physical exercise, but it helps.
post #3 of 23
I have learned that teaching your kids, is not much different then training your dogs
post #4 of 23
We have been using his methods with our new Boston Terrier (13 weeks old now). So far, going great and she takes to it well. She is great at staying at the door and waiting for us to go in first, then invite her in, then wait at the second inner entrance to come up to the kitchen. We never let her on furniture. She "works" in a puppy way (obeying the sit command) for her food, for any toy, etc. The kids give her the food and water and make her sit as well, she even listens to them when they tell her to go into her kennel! Also, we like getting her to calm/sit before greeting others (that needs some work though!)

I hear he is coming out with a book about puppies....'bout time!!!! I have always felt that his info was severely lacking in this area! Would be great to know his views on how to start your dogs off right, potty training, etc
post #5 of 23
Not everybody likes Cesar. He's not even actually the first/original "Dog Whisperer", but I suppose it was a catchy title for his TV show. I don't think his take is all bad, but if you do a little research you will find many more progressive/positive trainers who don't subscribe to all his methods. I do appreciate that he is not excessively punitive or rough with the dogs and I like watching his show every now and then. I just wanted to let you know that in some circles he's seen as more of a cashing-in celebrity than a real dog trainer and that the whole "dominance" theory in dog-training is viewed as old style by a lot of progressive dog people.

For a moderate take on things dog, I like Brian Kilcommons and Sarah Wilson's books. For a more progressive take I also like some clicker training. I do enjoy Cesar once in awhile, too, though.
post #6 of 23
just wanted to mention that he does address how children play a role. In many episodes he actually has his own children interact with the training process and explains his thoughts reguarding children more clearly. I imagine he has a few books out and perhaps even one that specifically speaks about roles of different human family members.

CESAR'S WEBSITE
post #7 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by beanma View Post
Not everybody likes Cesar. He's not even actually the first/original "Dog Whisperer", but I suppose it was a catchy title for his TV show. I don't think his take is all bad, but if you do a little research you will find many more progressive/positive trainers who don't subscribe to all his methods. I do appreciate that he is not excessively punitive or rough with the dogs and I like watching his show every now and then. I just wanted to let you know that in some circles he's seen as more of a cashing-in celebrity than a real dog trainer and that the whole "dominance" theory in dog-training is viewed as old style by a lot of progressive dog people.

For a moderate take on things dog, I like Brian Kilcommons and Sarah Wilson's books. For a more progressive take I also like some clicker training. I do enjoy Cesar once in awhile, too, though.
I like him.

I believe it is very intuitive to train a dog the way they would naturally interact in the wild. What a gift to give to an animal.


I do find it ironic though that he is all "animal rights" and he feeds his dogs commercial dog food though. : :

I will check those others out too though.
post #8 of 23
I have a good friend who really likes him, too. You can rent his shows from Netflix if you can't DVR them all yourself.

I just brought it up because I happened to call the highly recommended dog training facility near me today and spoke to them about training classes for my 7mo pup. I asked the trainer if it was a sign puppy was trying to dominate me when she tried to get on top of my head when I was sitting on the floor. The trainer laughed and said probably not. That too much was made of "dominance" right now and she mentioned Cesar by name. I have read as much, too, but I'm no trainer expert person. I do have a different good friend who has done a lot of agility and therapy training with her dogs, though, and she recommended this training facility and positive training/clicker training as well. I don't think this place specifically does clicker stuff, but I do think they put an emphasis on postive training rather than dominance training, which to my understanding, is a lot of what Cesar espouses. I do really like it how he can walk into a dog situation and the dogs are miraculously cured, though. I mean, really, no snark. It's pretty impressive!
post #9 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by beanma View Post
I asked the trainer if it was a sign puppy was trying to dominate me when she tried to get on top of my head when I was sitting on the floor. The trainer laughed and said probably not. That too much was made of "dominance" right now and she mentioned Cesar by name.
I agree. I think people forget that his tv show is entertainment and not a how-to manual. Some of his advice is good, but that part is usually common sense (i.e. walking your dog and making sure it gets enough exercise). I also don't respect many of his habits (walking a large pack of dogs offleash) or training that happens behind the scenes of the show (shock collars, unsupervised use of treadmills). I think there is much better training advice to be had.

Check out Childproofing Your Dog by Kilcommons/Wilson (also has a section on Dogproofing Your Child ).
post #10 of 23
A big yard is NO subsititute for walks or other means of exercise. Most dogs are TERRIBLE at exercising themselves.
Mine just lays on the porch and ignores the whole big backyard. I moved a fence out about 10 feet and replaced it with a new section of welded wire fence, and she didn't notice until I showed her the new area. OK my dog is really lazy and there are some dogs who pace the fence and self-exercise, but most don't wear themselves out just by sniffing around in the back yard.
post #11 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oneKnight View Post
A big yard is NO subsititute for walks or other means of exercise. Most dogs are TERRIBLE at exercising themselves.
.
wah. :


I didnt know this before we got the dog.

I kind of feel like the rescue group should have let me know after I made numerous comments about having a big enough yard that we wouldnt need to go on walks. But whatever.

Its fixing to be summer and I just flat out dont go outside in the summer except to swim. Hopefully I can get the dog swimming but he seems a little skiddish in the pool.
post #12 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by transformed View Post
I didnt know this before we got the dog.

I kind of feel like the rescue group should have let me know after I made numerous comments about having a big enough yard that we wouldnt need to go on walks.
I agree, most dogs won't exercise themselves (unless they are getting into trouble chasing squirrels, barking, or digging!). However you can exercise a dog in a backyard with games of fetch or other activities. It's still not a substitute for walking because of the socialization and needing exposure to the outside world, but it can help fill in the gaps. Also, if it's hot where you are I would do the exercising early in the morning or after dark - don't want to overheat the dog and often they won't stop when they should, they try to keep up with us as best they can no matter what.

You can try a doggie life jacket for swimming in the pool.
post #13 of 23
Our dogs do exercise themselves, but then, we have herding dogs and terriers now. Fence running is a favorite pasttime here, as is squirrel chasing (and getting, and sometimes killing )

I love Ceasar Milan for the most part. We use treadmills for our dogs, too. For show dogs, it's just commonly done and it's called roadwork. There are ever treadmills set up in the lobbies of the hotels during Westminster for exactly this reason.

My methods are not so "progressive" as some of the new stuff that's going around, I guess, but they are tried and true over 30 years and the people who taught them to me did them for 30+ years before that. So I like Ceasar because he teaches a lot of the same stuff we do.

Oh, and when you train that way... it's not theatrics or editing... the dogs really do get trained THAT quickly and are so responsive. It's wonderful and I'm so happy to have shared it with so many dogs and owners over the years.
post #14 of 23
Thread Starter 
so can you guys help me figure out why my dog is always pooping inside the house? (He has unrestricted access to outside and I remind him often. he doesnt seem to like it outside.)

I am wondering if it has to do with the feeding ritual we have....if you can even call it that. The only way I have found to feed him is to put his food and water in my bathroom and close the door. I put him in there several times a day for short breaks (snack and drink ssince he doesnt eat all his food at a time) Then he usually poops in there. within like 3 min.

The reason we do that is that our 16 mo old is fascinated with dog foodd and water and I cant keep her off of it.

Last night dh took the dog outside for a walk and he came insside and immedietly pooped in the house. :
post #15 of 23
Well, if he's gotten used to pooping where he eats, you have a huge problem. ONe of the first things a mommy teaches her puppies is to be clean. If you are locking him up in a small space and feeding him and he poops in there, you are teaching him to be a pig. Sorry that's so direct, but there you go.

You either need to feed him in there and get to him RIGHT away, or I would actually put him in a crate to eat and drink and then get him outside asap after he's done. You will need to do this for a while. Then you can slowly expand the areas where he is allowed to be after eating. You have to go back to housetraining 101.

If you don't have a crate, get one that is just big enough for him to walk in a turn around. Then start feeding and giving water ONLY in the crate.

Oh, and my 18 month old eats dog food all the time! He's fascinated with the dog bowls, too, and plays in the dog water all the time. Drives me crazy, but it won't hurt him. I'm not worried about it at all as far as safety... the pediatrician told me that if he starts barking, I should bring him in! LOL

Hope this helps a bit, I am running back and forth letting MY dogs in and out, actually!
post #16 of 23
Thread Starter 
I am worried about my dc eating the food - I almost dont feel "ok" giving it to my dog, knowing where it comes from. LOL.
post #17 of 23
Jenny, on the dog swimming idea. What kind of dog is it? I've forgotten. Some of the critters love the water. Our lab/hound puppy is jumping in any puddle she sees, but our border mutt wants nothing to do with wet and will only get in if we're in the creek or something and he feels compelled to come along. It's rarely his idea, though.

I agree at least one walk a day is ideal, but I find that sometimes that doesn't happen around here, either. We also have a big yard (and are getting a bigger fence). My problem is DH works a bit late (doesn't get home til 7 often) and sometimes my kids just don't want to walk the dogs and they can't really keep up with a faster pace anyway. On the days when they're both in school I can usually get a walk in and on the weekends we can usually swing it, but on the days when dd2 is home with me it just doesn't always happen. Luckily, young pup plays a mean game of fetch and actually gets much more physical exercise doing that than she would on a walk. I don't think it really subs for a walk because they need to get out and see the sights and smell the smells just like we do. I know I don't want to be in the house and yard for weeks on end, but playing in the yard does do a good job of exercising her when a walk just isn't in the cards.

On the pooping, can you get a baby gate across the bathroom so you can keep an eye on the pup's progress, but still keep the dogfood out of toddler's reach? Or could you just occupy the toddler for 10 minutes? A lot of dogs do better on a feeding schedule. Ours are on a very loose one and we do free feed which is not usually recommended, but it's worked well for us so far so I didn't want to upset my older dog's apple cart by doing something new. Most folks recommend putting the dog dishes down once or twice a day for 10 minutes and then taking them up. The dog will learn to eat at that time pretty quickly. Then you immediately take the dog out. Most dogs, and especially puppies, do need to poop immediately after a meal. Establishing a regular routine is the key to getting over this pooping in the house problem. I also agree that feeding in the crate could be a good way to go, but again I would try it for 10 minutes twice a day and then put the food away. I mean, I would, but I don't! If I couldn't get the housebreaking thing under control, though, I would.

P.S. A Premium quality kibble is probably made with better ingredients than a lot of human food. I found when we switched to a cheaper kibble our older dog's coat lost a lot of its luster and shine. DH wanted to go cheaper, but I buy the dogfood so I switched to a different premium (not super-duper premium, but good quality) kibble and that seems to have improved matters. Young pup looks super and our older guy has regained a lot of his shine. Not that I want to feed it to my kids, but...

P.P.S. Here's an article that might be helpful on pooping and peeing in the crate: http://www.mysmartpuppy.com/articles/Goesincrate.htm . I saw his picture from your other post and see he's a chihuahua or chi mix. I think they have a reputation for sometimes being difficult to housetrain. I'm not a chihuahua expert, though.

P.P.P.S. Just wanted to add that you should clean up every poop and pee accident with an enzyme cleaner like Bac-Out or Nature's Miracle to get out the smells that we humans can't smell, but the doggy noses can. When my pup was pooping on the deck this winter (I had some sympathy — it was cold, she's shorthaired, and it's a long flight of stairs out to the backyard) I also shoveled her poop into the area that I wanted her to go so that she would know the right spot. She caught on. (Also the weather warmed up and she got bigger.) She hasn't pooped on the deck in a long, long time. Good luck!
post #18 of 23
Oh, Yes. Chis are really hard to housetrain. Try to set him up to succeed by using the crate as much as possible. Confine him to a small space and then slowly enlarge the space he has freedom in.

If he's a Chi, then he is getting plenty of exercise just walking around the house or the yard. Little dogs get enough exercise usually just "being" in the house. Bigger dogs are harder.
post #19 of 23
Oh and if you are feeding a good quality kibble, don't worry too much about your child getting in to it. We feed a high quality kibble and like I said, ds gets one or two now and then. He likes it! : (gag) and like I said, no ill effects.. he's not barking yet. LOL
post #20 of 23
I wanted to add, after I realized what a little guy you've got, that feeding in the crate is probably the way to go. The bathroom is palatial for that fellow. Plenty of room to eat and poop, too!
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