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Desperate. Desperate. thread- UPDATE our vacation! - Page 7

post #121 of 145
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by meganmommyof5 View Post
Valerian tincture may work. And frankly, if you've tried everything that everyone has mentioned except CIO - well, that may what works. Of course, it's always up to you as far as what you can live with. Having been seriously sleep-deprived in the past, I found that I am a much better mom when I am rested, and my children are much better kids when they are rested.
what is valerian tincture?

I'm positive CIO wouldn't even work.
post #122 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyCatherine185 View Post
I'm positive CIO wouldn't even work.
Valerian is an herb that is used to help with sleep problems in adults. I wonder if it would be safe for a baby.

I have one of those sensitive, persistent little ones, and I am positive CIO won't work for her, either--one more reason not to even consider it.

My DD is just a few weeks younger than yours, so I'm here with you. We have good days and bad, but we will get through this, even if it is just one day at a time.
post #123 of 145
Thread Starter 
We had yet another night of 10+ wakings, and up this morning at 5 AM!! Oh, and he wouldn't go to sleep last night until 9 PM!! That is only 8 hours of BROKEN SLEEP!

I will look up Valerian tincture and see what I can find on it. Maybe I need to find a holistic ped (do those exist??). I posted another thread on seeing a sleep specialist. I dont even know of any in my area, or if they'd be able to help or just tell me to let him CIO. WHY isn't there more support and more answers for babies who don't sleep!? WHY is it always assumed that they don't sleep because they are being manipulative and need to CIO? :

This is a serious problem. It is deeply affecting our family and our quality of life. There HAS TO BE an answer other than to let him CIO.
post #124 of 145
Thread Starter 

valerian tincture

I looked up valerian, and it seems to be something that may give us a couple good nights, but def not a longterm fix....

Quote:
Prolonged use of valerian results in tolerance, and increasing the dose may have serious side effects. According to some researchers, long-term use of valerian may cause psychological depression, damage to the liver, or damage to the central nervous system.
post #125 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyCatherine185 View Post
We had yet another night of 10+ wakings, and up this morning at 5 AM!! Oh, and he wouldn't go to sleep last night until 9 PM!! That is only 8 hours of BROKEN SLEEP!
That actually makes sense. It is miserable, and lots of us mama of spirited/sleep fighters have been there, but it makes sense. Being overtired leads to high cortisol while sleeping, which means broken sleep and early rising.

The real question is: How was yesterday different? Or has he been in a string of bad nights? What could be his triggers? Too much activity? You or DH stressed? A delayed or missing nap? Did life happen and bedtime was pushed back 15 mins? Most kids can take it in stride. There are others who temperament just does let them.

I found that what ever trajectory we were moving on, DS would keep moving in that extreme. Bad sleep progressed to worse sleep. Good sleeping helped him get better and better rest. Most kids sef-correct (i.e. collapse when exhausted). Then there are the different ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyCatherine185 View Post
I dont even know of any in my area, or if they'd be able to help or just tell me to let him CIO. WHY isn't there more support and more answers for babies who don't sleep!? WHY is it always assumed that they don't sleep because they are being manipulative and need to CIO? :
You can certainly try, but a friend of mine did. He told her some kids are just this way, there was nothing physiologically wrong, and that she could let her CIO if she needed a change. No other suggestions were given. There wasn't any medication that he knew of or could recommend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyCatherine185 View Post
This is a serious problem. It is deeply affecting our family and our quality of life. There HAS TO BE an answer other than to let him CIO.
I can certainly relate to this desire. :


Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyCatherine185 View Post
I looked up valerian, and it seems to be something that may give us a couple good nights, but def not a longterm fix....
Yikes! These side effects sound scary.
post #126 of 145
We have a SN DD with serious neurological issues. Not sleeping was a major problem for us. Her neuro prescribed Clonidine, which is an anti-hypertensive that is also commonly used for sleep disorders in children. If your child is physiologically normal, I don't know whether your doc would prescribe it or not - but it was a life saver for us.
post #127 of 145
Oh, just another quick thought - if you want a doctor to take it seriously, try CIO - just for a day, so that you can honestly tell them you tried and it doesn't work. Telling most docs that you're disregarding their advice because you "know it won't work" undermines the doctor/parent relationship. Trust me on this, I've dealt with more doctors than you could shake a stick at.
post #128 of 145
I just want to offer hugs, mama. I didn't read all the responses but scanned through and read yours and some made me want to cry remembering our similar experiences with ds. It is so hard and traumatic. Sleep deprivation is damaging for everyone. Don't know what I can offer other than hope. Ds was the worst at about 8-10 months. I was desperate. Then he nightweaned himself (at 10m) after a stomach bug left him so tired he slept through the night for two nights. It's been slowly getting better since and now at 19 months he only wakes 1-2times a night. HOPE!!!
One BIG improvement we made was to sidecar his crib to our bed (at about 10m). He was close but our movement didn't disturb him and he seemed to like stretching out in his own space, but still close to mama. We didn't CIO at all.
Good Luck!
eta: Another lifesaver was dh would take over baby duty on the weekend mornings so I could sleep in for 2-3 hours. Bliss!
post #129 of 145
i know you are feeling desperate but i would NOT try either that valerian or cio...both have serious side effects.

you could look for a naturopathic doctor. may not be a ped but still may have some ideas. here is one place to look for one: http://heartspring.net/naturopathic_directory.html
post #130 of 145
I also have to respectfully disagree that you should try CIO in order to appease a doctor. It is a medical professional's prerogative to be insulted or put off by what you do or don't do, and really, you have no control over his/her feelings. As the parent, you are the expert on the subject of your child and your family, so if you say CIO won't work, or that it doesn't suit you philosophically, then *end of discussion*, thankyouverymuch medical professional, and let us move on to discuss *medical* issues related to night waking.

I was also thinking of Dr. Sears' list of possible causes of extreme night waking and wondering if any of these slightly more unusual ones might apply to your little guy:
  • sensitivity to polyester or other irritating sleepwear
  • nasal allergies to dust, lint, pollen, perfume, etc.
  • UTI
  • anemia
  • too hot
  • too cold
post #131 of 145
I've been following this post for a while, although I haven't read all the responses. My 2yo was very similar to yours, woke every 30 min or so most nights until he was 18 mo. He cried, couldn't go back to sleep even from nursing, would wake at the sound of the fan coming on, etc. We were also desperate, although I was the only one sleep deprived because my husband left the bedroom at about 3 months. I'm sure I had PPD, but never went to see anyone because I didn't even want to chance a therapist telling me to CIO (shows you how irrational I was). I'll send some hugs your way; I know how horrible this can be and how resentful and angry you can get towards your little one/partner/yourself/life in general.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned: if you're CDing, the feeling of needing to pee could be enough to keep him from going back to sleep or enough to wake him up in light sleep. We did conventional PLing with my son and he's not night trained yet, but he still wakes up to pee about twice a night. At that age, he would wake, nurse, pee, get changed, nurse to sleep. If he nursed all night long like yours, it would be a vicious cycle of nursing and peeing all night long! We eventually did a wool pad under a him with a cloth diaper, no cover and changed him as soon as I knew he was wet. I guess they're supposed to "get used to" the feeling, but mine never did. I'm not saying it's a cure-all, but maybe something to consider.

I eventually figured that my son was not a sleeper, although I also did consider seeing a sleep specialist. Please keep us posted on how it goes if you go that route.

-

Leah, mom to Andrew 3/31/07 and Jane, 3/1/09. AP, BF, BW, CD, EC
post #132 of 145
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekingJoy View Post
That actually makes sense. It is miserable, and lots of us mama of spirited/sleep fighters have been there, but it makes sense. Being overtired leads to high cortisol while sleeping, which means broken sleep and early rising.

The real question is: How was yesterday different? Or has he been in a string of bad nights? What could be his triggers? Too much activity? You or DH stressed? A delayed or missing nap? Did life happen and bedtime was pushed back 15 mins? Most kids can take it in stride. There are others who temperament just does let them.
Yesterday wasn't too different. He was incredibly grumpy most of the day, though, but I made sure he had good naps. But, Aaron's Dad came over in the evening, and maybe that was enough to make him too overstimulated? He did bad Monday night too, though. And there was nothing that I know of that could've caused it.... *sigh*
post #133 of 145
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by henny penny View Post
I just want to offer hugs, mama. I didn't read all the responses but scanned through and read yours and some made me want to cry remembering our similar experiences with ds. It is so hard and traumatic. Sleep deprivation is damaging for everyone. Don't know what I can offer other than hope. Ds was the worst at about 8-10 months. I was desperate. Then he nightweaned himself (at 10m) after a stomach bug left him so tired he slept through the night for two nights. It's been slowly getting better since and now at 19 months he only wakes 1-2times a night. HOPE!!!
One BIG improvement we made was to sidecar his crib to our bed (at about 10m). He was close but our movement didn't disturb him and he seemed to like stretching out in his own space, but still close to mama. We didn't CIO at all.
Good Luck!
eta: Another lifesaver was dh would take over baby duty on the weekend mornings so I could sleep in for 2-3 hours. Bliss!

It is actually nice to hear that 8-11 months was the worst. Cuz so far that has been the case for us, and I'm hoping that once 11-12 months hit, he will start sleeping a little better!

I have been considering putting his mattress on the floor in our room, also trying to convince DH to get us a King bed. I feel like one of those may help us some....

DH does take Liam out on the weekends for a couple hours in the morning and lets me sleep in. It is amazing.
post #134 of 145
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mckennasmomma View Post
i know you are feeling desperate but i would NOT try either that valerian or cio...both have serious side effects.

you could look for a naturopathic doctor. may not be a ped but still may have some ideas. here is one place to look for one: http://heartspring.net/naturopathic_directory.html
Thank you for that link!
post #135 of 145
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeganCupcake View Post
I also have to respectfully disagree that you should try CIO in order to appease a doctor. It is a medical professional's prerogative to be insulted or put off by what you do or don't do, and really, you have no control over his/her feelings. As the parent, you are the expert on the subject of your child and your family, so if you say CIO won't work, or that it doesn't suit you philosophically, then *end of discussion*, thankyouverymuch medical professional, and let us move on to discuss *medical* issues related to night waking.

I was also thinking of Dr. Sears' list of possible causes of extreme night waking and wondering if any of these slightly more unusual ones might apply to your little guy:
  • sensitivity to polyester or other irritating sleepwear
  • nasal allergies to dust, lint, pollen, perfume, etc.
  • UTI
  • anemia
  • too hot
  • too cold

He is definitely more sensitive than most to his sleeping conditions. We've tried sleeping him in just a diaper, as well as a diaper and cotton t-shirt. He does best in the diaper and t-shirt. He gets too hot a lot, so we got a fan and a new comforter. He does have nasal allergies to dust. I need to clean our room again....
post #136 of 145
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SactoMommy View Post
I've been following this post for a while, although I haven't read all the responses. My 2yo was very similar to yours, woke every 30 min or so most nights until he was 18 mo. He cried, couldn't go back to sleep even from nursing, would wake at the sound of the fan coming on, etc. We were also desperate, although I was the only one sleep deprived because my husband left the bedroom at about 3 months. I'm sure I had PPD, but never went to see anyone because I didn't even want to chance a therapist telling me to CIO (shows you how irrational I was). I'll send some hugs your way; I know how horrible this can be and how resentful and angry you can get towards your little one/partner/yourself/life in general.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned: if you're CDing, the feeling of needing to pee could be enough to keep him from going back to sleep or enough to wake him up in light sleep. We did conventional PLing with my son and he's not night trained yet, but he still wakes up to pee about twice a night. At that age, he would wake, nurse, pee, get changed, nurse to sleep. If he nursed all night long like yours, it would be a vicious cycle of nursing and peeing all night long! We eventually did a wool pad under a him with a cloth diaper, no cover and changed him as soon as I knew he was wet. I guess they're supposed to "get used to" the feeling, but mine never did. I'm not saying it's a cure-all, but maybe something to consider.

I eventually figured that my son was not a sleeper, although I also did consider seeing a sleep specialist. Please keep us posted on how it goes if you go that route.

-

Leah, mom to Andrew 3/31/07 and Jane, 3/1/09. AP, BF, BW, CD, EC

Thanks for this. We actually use sposies (the ONE thing about parenting Liam that is convenient.. we tried CD for a week and I just couldn't handle it) but I have thought that it was probably a vicious cycle of nursing/peeing/etc cuz he wakes up with a soaking wet diaper in the mornings!
post #137 of 145
Thread Starter 
Thank you everyone for your continued support, advice, and responses. : It is so wonderful to have somewhere to go and talk with moms who have BTDT, and can offer sympathy and advice and just to let me ramble if I need to. You all have been amazing!

This morning we got a nice long 2-hour nap! : We slept together, so I know he woke up a few times during the nap, but went right back to sleep and didn't disturb me much, which was great. Then we headed to my grandma's for the afternoon and swam for a few hours. Liam loved the water, and had a great time. He was really happy today, which is the first in a week or two! He did miss his afternoon nap, though, but is asleep now and I think he is out for the night. :

After reading more of people's responses, and in my other thread, I am thinking I will not go see a sleep specialist. It seems there is just no research/support for infants who DON'T sleep. Only CIO advice. So it seems it will be something we will have to work through on our own. Right now he is cruising/pulling up and trying to walk, so I think that may have something to do with it. I really think he is a smart smart boy, and his brain just works overtime, and he just has such a hard time sleeping because his brain won't shut off. I will just have to keep doing what I can to help him sleep, and get as much sleep as I can myself. It has to get better at some point, right? I just keep praying everyday that God will give me the strength to get through the day, and so far He has been faithful and has gotten me through. It has been so hard, but I know these times are fleeting and soon I will look back and won't remember all of these sleepless nights and I will miss snuggling with my (not so) tiny baby at night.
post #138 of 145
Thread Starter 

UPDATE- allergy test results

So, as you know we had blood tests done for allergies, and the results are more frustrating than helpful. He tested only slightly positive for soy (a .8 on a 100 scale) and scallops. Nothing for dairy or wheat. I talked with his ped, she said that these are not gut (GI) allergies, and that there are no tests for gut allergies.

So I feel like we are back to square one. Also, he doesn't have any SCREAMING allergy signs as of right now (and I haven't been following any ED this past week or two) other than his sleeping. No rashes, diahrea, etc. He's just fussy and doesn't sleep.

UGH. :
post #139 of 145
I know it is frustrating to not be able to "name" what is wrong, but I think you should look at this as good news. Your baby is not in pain and will not have to deal with food allergies and you can go back to eating a normal diet! (unless of course when you do that he starts to show signs of food allergies...)

BTW did you get my pm about the naturopath in my town? She might be able to help you with the melatonin idea...
post #140 of 145
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mckennasmomma View Post
I know it is frustrating to not be able to "name" what is wrong, but I think you should look at this as good news. Your baby is not in pain and will not have to deal with food allergies and you can go back to eating a normal diet! (unless of course when you do that he starts to show signs of food allergies...)

BTW did you get my pm about the naturopath in my town? She might be able to help you with the melatonin idea...
Well I don't know that he is not in pain... his belly may still be reacting to things, and that won't show up on the tests... ughhh.

You can actually get melatonin at the grocery store.. I saw it there the other day.... so if I do decide to go that route I will speak with the naturopath you suggested to find out how much, etc..... but I am kind of using that as a last resort right now....
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