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Desperate. Desperate. thread- UPDATE our vacation! - Page 2

post #21 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyCatherine185 View Post
He has several allergies, dairy being the biggest, and I have been dairy free since he was 4 weeks old. I had him tested and I eliminated all of the allergens that he tested positive for for 3 weeks, and saw NO difference in his sleep. I still am dairy free, and I limit the other foods that he tested positive for.
I haven't read past this post so sorry if someone else brought this up. Any allergy testing is very inexact. I had the same issues with my dd. I eliminated everything she tested positive for and things actually got worse : So, I figured my diet wasn't the issue. Almost a year later I tried it again and this time I eliminated a lot more and found out she was allergic to things that she had previously tested neg to. About 3 months ago she was waking most hours every night. She had never slept more than 3 hours at a time. Last night she woke once : Most nights now she wakes 2 or 3 times at most. Her sleep is much more restful. She used to scoot and fret in her sleep, now she is so peaceful. She also will often settle herself after stirring. Before as soon as she moved a muscle she would wake up. She nurses less (not that nursing is a bad thing, it just indicates to me she needs less comfort), sleeps more, has a better appetite during the day (she is nearly 2 so eats lots of solids), she is so much happier, and she looks healthier.

I would suggest heading over to the allergy board. The women on there could give alot of insight on how to start an elimination diet. I would be willing to bet the farm that this is all caused by food issues. Good luck!

Beth

ETA: I just went back and skimmed some of the responses. I totally understand that it is hard to eliminate alot of things from your diet, but it can be done. I am currently pg and on a *very* restricted diet because of dd's allergies. Currently we avoid completely dairy, wheat, egg, soy, peanuts, tree nuts, almost all seeds, bananas, avocados, almost all nightshades, corn, and zucchini (I think that is it). I am currently waiting to try coconut and sunflower seeds. On top of this we are vegetarian and you can see my choices are terribly limited. I would consider eating meat, but because of her issues with dairy and eggs I would be very reluctant to try cow and chicken. On top of that I would worry about what the animal had eaten. So, right now remaining veg seems smart. I have to make everything I eat from scratch. It is time consuming and difficult and I am hungry sometimes, but it can be done.
post #22 of 145
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mckennasmomma View Post
Typing 1-handed as my 8.5 mo old sleeps in my lap!

here are some things i do that help:
-completely eliminated caffeine from my diet (chocolate too!)
-before bed give 1 tsp of chamomile tea and 1 Calms Forte
-dd naps 3 x a day...basically she is never awake for more than 2 hours except for her evevning stretch before bedtime.
THanks! I will try these!!!
post #23 of 145
At that age the whole 2..3..4 thing seems to work well.

First nap 2 hours after waking
Second nap 3 hours after waking from 1st nap
Bedtime 4 hours after waking from second nap.

At some point our day kind of looked like that and once I paid attention and built the day around those hours our DAY got much better. Our nights didn't get better until DS was 12 mos and I stopped nursing him immediately when he woke. (made him wait a bit).

Our day naps got better when I lay next to him and slowly moved away. So first day I slept with him. 2nd day I read a book 6 inches away, etc.

I will say that with my second child I've done none of this. If she woke after 5 minutes I just picked her up and put in in the swing/wrap/playmat (whatever she wanted). And like magic at 6 mos she started sleeping much better. I guess it just depends on the baby.

Try to catch up on sleep ASAP. Go to bed super early. Sleep all day Saturday if you can. All this can help you get to a point where you can think more critically.

It does get better no matter what you do
post #24 of 145
have you tried elevating the bed for reflux?
post #25 of 145
I would give the elimination diet a try again if you can bear it. You mentioned, I think, that last time you did it for 3 weeks with no change? My GP/Naturopath gave me an elimination diet last year and told me that it takes 3 weeks for your system to be fully rid of the things your eliminating. So if you only did it for 3 weeks that may explain why you didn't see any changes.

I really feel for you. I hated doing it, I know it's not easy. And I wasn't a sleep deprived mother!
post #26 of 145
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treasuremapper View Post
have you tried elevating the bed for reflux?
No, but he was on Prevacid for 3 months, also with no change in sleep before, during, or after the Prevacid. We tried Zantac first but that didn't help the reflux.
post #27 of 145
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by katelove View Post
I would give the elimination diet a try again if you can bear it. You mentioned, I think, that last time you did it for 3 weeks with no change? My GP/Naturopath gave me an elimination diet last year and told me that it takes 3 weeks for your system to be fully rid of the things your eliminating. So if you only did it for 3 weeks that may explain why you didn't see any changes.

I really feel for you. I hated doing it, I know it's not easy. And I wasn't a sleep deprived mother!
I think I am going to have to do an ED. Uggghhhhh. His big reactors were dairy and wheat (among other fruits/veg's). Which are of course, in everything.
post #28 of 145
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Therese's Mommy View Post
I haven't read past this post so sorry if someone else brought this up. Any allergy testing is very inexact. I had the same issues with my dd. I eliminated everything she tested positive for and things actually got worse : So, I figured my diet wasn't the issue. Almost a year later I tried it again and this time I eliminated a lot more and found out she was allergic to things that she had previously tested neg to. About 3 months ago she was waking most hours every night. She had never slept more than 3 hours at a time. Last night she woke once : Most nights now she wakes 2 or 3 times at most. Her sleep is much more restful. She used to scoot and fret in her sleep, now she is so peaceful. She also will often settle herself after stirring. Before as soon as she moved a muscle she would wake up. She nurses less (not that nursing is a bad thing, it just indicates to me she needs less comfort), sleeps more, has a better appetite during the day (she is nearly 2 so eats lots of solids), she is so much happier, and she looks healthier.

I would suggest heading over to the allergy board. The women on there could give alot of insight on how to start an elimination diet. I would be willing to bet the farm that this is all caused by food issues. Good luck!

Beth

ETA: I just went back and skimmed some of the responses. I totally understand that it is hard to eliminate alot of things from your diet, but it can be done. I am currently pg and on a *very* restricted diet because of dd's allergies. Currently we avoid completely dairy, wheat, egg, soy, peanuts, tree nuts, almost all seeds, bananas, avocados, almost all nightshades, corn, and zucchini (I think that is it). I am currently waiting to try coconut and sunflower seeds. On top of this we are vegetarian and you can see my choices are terribly limited. I would consider eating meat, but because of her issues with dairy and eggs I would be very reluctant to try cow and chicken. On top of that I would worry about what the animal had eaten. So, right now remaining veg seems smart. I have to make everything I eat from scratch. It is time consuming and difficult and I am hungry sometimes, but it can be done.
Wow, mama, that sounds really rough. I only eliminated dairy, wheat, tomatoes, strawberries, peas, tea, chocolate, and grapes. Just with dairy and wheat, it was so so so hard. I just don't have the time/energy to make all the food I need to, but it is looking like I am going to have to find it..
post #29 of 145
Ok, I haven't read all the posts, but just had to say that when I first read this, I thought you were talking about an 8.5 YEAR old. Tells you how much sleep I'm getting these days.
I'm so sorry to hear you are going through this. Sleep issues just plain suck.

8.5 years old...jeez...can you imagine?!
post #30 of 145

Hang in there!

My 13-month old son is really similar to yours. He was very high needs; still is, but better in some aspects, and like you, I let him direct his own schedule. Funny thing is that it's nearly identical to your son's, (except our afternoon nap has NEVER been more than 2 hours. 1.5 on a good day. My DS also still wakes about four times a night, often crying.)

I see in your message that you're using your instincts, letting your son find his way naturally. The times when I want to kick the cat for meowing too loud and waking DS or when he just won't sleep and I feel like dropping DS in the crib and saying, "Forget it. You're on your own, kid" are the times when I've lost touch with my instincts. Frustration, my grad class, my dirty house, my need to get my nipple out of his mouth and start getting ready for work interfere with being able to listen to what this child needs.

I know this is probably not helpful in a tangible way, but you sound like such a loving mom. Your son was put into your life because he needs someone who listens to her heart like you do. You're doing everything perfectly, even though it's hard. The vaca will work itself out, too. Think of it as a break from having to cook and clean!

I wish you the best. You've gotten some really good advice from the other moms here too!
post #31 of 145
I too have a very light sleeper. From about 5 months until almost a year old I let her nap in her swing with a fan going for white noise. Sometimes it was hard to transfer her from nursing/rocking to her swing, but I just kept at it until she made it. She slept great in her swing. Then at about 13 months we flew half way around the globe to visit family and I was amazed that she napped in odd places and slept fine with us in even though it was hot. Also, during those three weeks she cut 3 molars, got a fever, and a cough, oh and diahrea and vomiting too. Still all in all she wasn't too cranky.
Anyway, I did consider using her crib and i even tried to put her in the crib for naps. I could never do the transfer. One time it worked and she was up ten min. later. I think the matress was too firm for her liking. Of course she was used to being with me on our cozy matress.

I guess if you want you could try letting him take naps in a crib and see how it goes. For that matter you could try putting him in the crib at night since you think your waking him up, that is, if you can do the transfer thing. I finally decided that I didn't want to jump up and have to go all the way to another room to care for her. That made me tired just thinking about it. So, here we are. My dd is exactly like yours only older, eighteen months. She nurses like a newborn inspite of the fact that she eats solids like a champ.
I still rock nurse and read to her until she goes to sleep. It could take ten minutes or 1.5 hours. Most of the time I just accept it for what it is and I let all the housework go. As long as I can read or surf the net I don't get too frustrated. Although sometimes I get tired of trying and we get up. I am sorry if my post isn't very encouraging...I am going through it too. So, I think you are wanting someone to point you in some direction for a change.

So, you could try laying him down. Some moms don't mind letting their babe fuss a bit as long as they are right there patting and shushing. Maybe he needs that little fuss to get to sleep. I thought about trying this too, but in the end I couldn't do it...I just picked her back up. I think in the book, The No Cry Sleep Solution she talks about this method. It all depends on your tolerance for your babes cries. I can't handle any crying so I always picked her up. Disclaimer: I am not advocating CIO. One night dd was crying and sitting next to me the whole time. I was there for her but I was laying down to sleep. If she wanted to sit there and cry it was her choice. Eventually she did lay down with me and sleep.

Besides his dispostition, there could be many factors like teething, tummy troubles, dreams, sleep cycles, growth spurts, learning new skills. I guess I just figure it is all within the realm of normal and have accepted that my dd is a crappy sleeper. At least she is in my bed and I don't have to go to another room to console her. Sorry so long...I really hope you can find something that works or maybe just find the peace to accept what it is.
post #32 of 145
I think sleep cues are a bit of a red herring. DD regularly rubs her eyes on and off throughout the day but no amount of parenting will ever get her to sleep unless she is ready to crash.

She is now 12.5 months and only needs 12 hours of sleep in a 24 hour period. She sleeps 10.5 overnight and has a 1.5 hour nap during the day. Not 'enough' sleep as far as the 'books' are concerned but more than enough for her. She's a live wire and has never found it easy to switch off. She needs to be exhausted to fall asleep and these days physically tired too, from a good bit of crawling around, going up stairs, out in the buggy twice a day going here and there. All that stimulation and she's just ready to crash.

A night=time bath also helped. It seemed to be very clear marker that the day is over. She would also cry a little as she didn't like the transition from dry to wet to cold to warm and dry again but it was always like she was just letting off steam.

This is our experience so please don't flame me, but food allergies were again a total red herring. I tried an elimination diet and it did nothing. DD woke every hour of the night-time sleep. It has nothing to do with allergies many times in my opinion it's simply that babies are programmed to sleep this way if left to their own choice.

I know because we night-weaned DD at 11 months 1 week and she now STTN and only wakes up once or twice and I pat her back to sleep. She doesn't even ask to feed. She has a special cough she does when she wants the boob and it doesn't occur to her to ask. But it comes at 5am when she is genuniely hungry. For us, it was nothing to do with food allergies, she just didn't know how to fall asleep without the nipple. I am on a full dairy, wheat, chocolate diet. I eat everything! I don't drink tea or coffee but I haven't for years. She drinks cow's milk herself now twice a week and has no problem.

We are still co-sleeping and we feed to sleep at night and at 5am to 7am in the morning. Our lives have improved around 1000%. Medically, we are all crawling out from where we were for close to a year and slowly slowly recovering.

Another thing - you say you have a loose routine. Something I have noticed with DD is that the sleep time can vary by around 20 minutes but we have to be upstairs doing the things we do for bedtime by 6:45pm or things get really scrappy. It's like she gets stressed if she can't see that we are heading for bed by then. So I would say you may think half and hour here or there is OK, but I think babies do far better with more of a routine - well the high-needs ones anyway - you can either let them lead completely - if you have the energy, or you need to lead completely - otherwise it becomes a battle of wills and I don't think that does anyone any good.

At 11 months 1 week I felt we had to night-wean. I had planned to go on longer but my health was in jeapordy and DD's reflux was just dreadful.

I wish I could provide more of an answer to you but for us the answer has been night-weaning, she couldn't sleep without the breast - oh and also a separate sleep surface. We have 2 twins, I separated them by about an inch. This way I still flip over to comfort DD back to sleep if she wakes and then once asleep I move back to my twin. This stops the bed that she's on moving so I think she is woken up less.

DD still loves breastfeeding. But I think she is relieved to not need it to fall asleep anymore. When she wakes at night she very much just wants to go back to sleep. She sleeps much much more deeply than before. It's weird but she really does. We have the mattress on the floor but occasionally she falls out, it's only about 8 inches so no big deal, I've fallen from 5 feet! You'd imagine that it would be a big shock, yes she screams but within 3 minutes she's asleep again once she's in my arms. This would NEVER EVER have happened before the night-weaning.

If you can, I would soldier on and night-wean at 12 months if that's something you can stomach. Dr Jay Gordon does say it's OK to do it then, though I know many would think it's too young on here. The tone of your email looks like you are ready to blow a gasket. That's no good for your baby. He needs a Mum who can function, who has some of her needs met. He also says it's OK to night-wean earlier if the Mum's health is in trouble.

Only you know where you are right now and how much more you can take. We want our children to live the lives of a King and a Queen, yet we are only human. Don't beat yourself up too much.

Try a different room, a different sleep surface etc. I really hope it gets better for you. You could also try Omeprazole/Zegerid instead of Prevacid. Some kids respond much better to Omeprazole, but I can't see why Prevacid wouldn't have worked at least a bit - and if it didn't then I guess that's it. Do try an ED for 2 or 3 weeks and see if this helps. It's certainly worth a try and you want to be absolutely sure it's not this before embarking on anything else.

Fingers crossed for you and really hope it all works out.

One other question - can DH ever get DS to sleep? Have you ever tried? What happens?
post #33 of 145
Thread Starter 
Quote:
AlicesMama I think sleep cues are a bit of a red herring. DD regularly rubs her eyes on and off throughout the day but no amount of parenting will ever get her to sleep unless she is ready to crash.
ITA with this. He rubs his eyes/fusses a lot throughout the day. I attribute it to being chronically overtired maybe.. but yeah, when he does this I try to get him to sleep, and it usually doesn't work..

Quote:
This is our experience so please don't flame me, but food allergies were again a total red herring. I tried an elimination diet and it did nothing. DD woke every hour of the night-time sleep. It has nothing to do with allergies many times in my opinion it's simply that babies are programmed to sleep this way if left to their own choice.
Partially agree with this. I think he is DEF programmed to wake a lot, but I know that allergies also can make a babe uncomfortable and wake more. He has plenty of allergy signs too... I actually just noticed a spot of eczema on his bum yesterday! And he broke out in hives a couple days ago from eating some hummus that I had dipped wheat crackers into.. I guess some crumbs were in the hummus bc he had hives all over his face.

Quote:
You could also try Omeprazole/Zegerid instead of Prevacid. Some kids respond much better to Omeprazole, but I can't see why Prevacid wouldn't have worked at least a bit - and if it didn't then I guess that's it.
The Prevacid def worked for the reflux, before Prevacid he would pop off and scream 10+ times during each feeding and I would have to calm him back down and try again... It was awful. 2 weeks on Prevacid and no more screaming! We weaned him off of it a couple months ago and the screaming has not come back. It just didn't help with the sleeping at all.

Quote:
can DH ever get DS to sleep? Have you ever tried? What happens?
Sometimes. On especially difficult nights, we pass him back and forth a few times. Though he usually screams a LOT more before calming down with DH.
post #34 of 145
Thread Starter 
Quote:
So, you could try laying him down. Some moms don't mind letting their babe fuss a bit as long as they are right there patting and shushing. Maybe he needs that little fuss to get to sleep. I thought about trying this too, but in the end I couldn't do it...I just picked her back up. I think in the book, The No Cry Sleep Solution she talks about this method. It all depends on your tolerance for your babes cries. I can't handle any crying so I always picked her up.
This is what I have been contemplating doing.... I have tried it a couple times and couldn't take the crying after 2-3 minutes though.
post #35 of 145
you poor mama.....I really know how you feel. My lo is the same age and I am there with you with the sleep issues. My lo doesn't have food allergies..that I know of....and my gut really tells me that the waking is more of a habit/need for the boob than discomfort. I did use the NCSS technique of patting, shh shh her until she fell asleep on her own in her crib and that is what got us that wonderful week and a half of great sleep..and I really think that it was because she learned HOW to fall asleep on her own. Now, it's a different story because she knows how to pull up and that's ALL she wants to do. I have also contemplated CIO, but don't think I could do it...not only because it's too sad and mean, but because it seems like you would have to keep doing it.
So, my therapist, who is a psyd, practices ap with her child and is against cio...was explaining to me that learning to sleep is a skill and that learning to master new skills is how children gain self-esteem...anyhow, she was trying to ease my fears of letting her cry at all...she doesn't seem to think that it is harmful to her brain development or emotional development if I am there trying to help her learn how to go to sleep on her own. I will prob get flamed for this, but I have really started to wonder how much good i am doing for my dd if i never let her try to fall asleep on her own....and she's getting to the age where it feels a little ridiculous that i can't ever go out in the evening because i am the ONLY person who can get her to sleep...kwim...i can certainly relate to your sentiments about everything revolves around your ds....it's the same way here. hth hang in there
post #36 of 145
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evelynmia'smom View Post
you poor mama.....I really know how you feel. My lo is the same age and I am there with you with the sleep issues. My lo doesn't have food allergies..that I know of....and my gut really tells me that the waking is more of a habit/need for the boob than discomfort. I did use the NCSS technique of patting, shh shh her until she fell asleep on her own in her crib and that is what got us that wonderful week and a half of great sleep..and I really think that it was because she learned HOW to fall asleep on her own. Now, it's a different story because she knows how to pull up and that's ALL she wants to do. I have also contemplated CIO, but don't think I could do it...not only because it's too sad and mean, but because it seems like you would have to keep doing it.
So, my therapist, who is a psyd, practices ap with her child and is against cio...was explaining to me that learning to sleep is a skill and that learning to master new skills is how children gain self-esteem...anyhow, she was trying to ease my fears of letting her cry at all...she doesn't seem to think that it is harmful to her brain development or emotional development if I am there trying to help her learn how to go to sleep on her own. I will prob get flamed for this, but I have really started to wonder how much good i am doing for my dd if i never let her try to fall asleep on her own....and she's getting to the age where it feels a little ridiculous that i can't ever go out in the evening because i am the ONLY person who can get her to sleep...kwim...i can certainly relate to your sentiments about everything revolves around your ds....it's the same way here. hth hang in there



Thanks for posting this. It def makes me feel better to know I'm not the only one who feels this way. I feel so guilty that I am resenting everything revolving around him, etc.... Othat than on MDC, most of the other mamas I know do some form of sleep training, and have happy kids who SLEEP, and they don't fight sleeping, and they are all well-rested. I love being Liam's mom. I am flattered that he wants me and only me most of the time. But it would sure be nice if sleep wasn't such a struggle around here, and if my whole existence wasn't dedicated to making sure he gets to sleep and stays asleep when he needs to.
post #37 of 145
I often think about all of the other babies I know whose parents sleep trained and they go down to sleep without a fight and sleep all night and are happy and well rested and don't seem to be damaged in any way....I don't know...I'm tired of feeling so angry and exhausted too AND waking up with hikies all over my breast! I feel like a human sacrifice...I mean I knew it was going to be hard to be a mother but come on!
post #38 of 145
Have you tried the pantley pull off from NCSS to get him to stop relying on nursing to sleep? It actually didn't help DS sleep in longer stretches I have to say (but nightweaning was miraculous).
post #39 of 145
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evelynmia'smom View Post
I often think about all of the other babies I know whose parents sleep trained and they go down to sleep without a fight and sleep all night and are happy and well rested and don't seem to be damaged in any way....I don't know...I'm tired of feeling so angry and exhausted too AND waking up with hikies all over my breast! I feel like a human sacrifice...I mean I knew it was going to be hard to be a mother but come on!
I could have posted those exact words. I knew being a mom was hard, but yeah.. geez.. like, really?
post #40 of 145
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by D_McG View Post
Have you tried the pantley pull off from NCSS to get him to stop relying on nursing to sleep? It actually didn't help DS sleep in longer stretches I have to say (but nightweaning was miraculous).
Sort of. I pull it out when he's asleep and that usually wakes him.. so, re-insert, try again.. etc. etc.

I don't mind nursing to sleep one bit. It is the rocking/jiggling/shusshing/holding him down while he fights me that I don't like..
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