or Connect
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Baby › Co-sleeping and the Family Bed › Desperate. Desperate. thread- UPDATE our vacation!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Desperate. Desperate. thread- UPDATE our vacation! - Page 4

post #61 of 145
Yeah when you reach your breaking point it is more than okay to step out for a moment to get yourself together. That happened tonight.....it took two hours to get DS to sleep, NOTHING was working and he was misrable...DH was frustrated, I was almost in tears so I took him up, set him in his crib told him I loved him and would be back in five minutes but I needed a time out. DH was upset that we couldnt help him sleep, but in that moment we both needed to just breathe. Sleep deprivation is used as torture for crying out loud, there is a reason we need to sleep, and that is to form complete thoughts and to act in a reasonable manner.
Of course we didnt let DS CIO all night, after 2 minutes in his crib he was asleep LOL, but please,please dont feel bad if you need to step away from your son for a minute, or two, or ten, if that is what it takes to stay sane.
Im really glad your DH is going to step in, that really helps so much. 4 hours makes a HUGE difference and will really, really help! It may also help your DS and DH bond some more while you get some much needed rest!
post #62 of 145
I'm right there with you. My DS is almost 8 months old and last night I completely lost it. I scared myself, actually. The sleep deprivation is killing me.

I'm reading along with great interest and am thinking about using some of the suggestions here.
post #63 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyCatherine185 View Post
vegancupcake, and mommy2abigail- thank you both for your honesty and for your experiences!

vegancupcake- i have actually tried that, and he cries/fusses.. I even let him cry for a few minutes until I couldn't take it anymore

mommy2abigail- we are actually planning to do something similar... this week DH is going to go to him until 11 PM, next week 12 AM, and we will see how it goes from there.... I like you were, am past my breaking point. I'm unhealthy and depressed and I need a few hours of sleep. We also decided he is going to sleep in his crib until 3 AM tonight. We will see how this goes. If, of course there is too much crying, we will bring him in with us. But I think he may find that he likes his crib better, because he usually wakes at every little thing in our bed and can't seem to get comfy....
OP, I hope the crib helps. You might even try to slant one end of the crib per the pp. That and not nursing to sleep can have a huge impact on reflux. Good luck tonight!
post #64 of 145
Some other ideas I don't believe I've seen mentioned:

- Exercise: by this age my ds (now 28 mo) needed a fair amount of exercise. This was tough because he was a late crawler and walker! So I would just set him on the floor to wiggle, for a long time - like hours. We would also go to a gymboree type class. He is still a super energetic guy and won't sleep well unless he is physically exhausted.

- Stimulation: I've also noticed that he really needs his mind stimulated as well. As a first time mom, I am always a few weeks behind his development as far as toys, books and activities, and usually if we are having some kind of behavioral issue introducing something new would help a lot.

- Solids: DS eats a TON. At that age he would eat 2 avocados a day. We also introduced whole milk yogurt, which he would demolish, and veggies with lots of olive oil, coconut oil, or butter. If your babe is sensitive to cow's milk, goat yogurt is a great option.

- For you: First off, for my money the most important thing is to get out of the house every.single.day. For us, it was the gym, every day at 3. If I was too tired to work out I would just take a shower and sit around until my 2 hours of childcare were up, actually I still do this. Don't worry too much about this affecting his sleep, how much worse could it get, right?!

Also, sometimes I would just give up. I'm not talking about CIO, rather just quitting trying to get ds to sleep. How is the heck can you *make* another person sleep without using drugs, anyhow? You can't! So, I'd get up. Watch tv, read, whatever. Is your babe crying? Or just awake? I took many catnaps with ds in his exersaucer, or listening to his mobile for 30 min. Also, if I was trying to get ds down for the night, after 15 min I would take a break for a while and try again.

Another thought is that you might have some PPD that is affecting your coping mechanisms. This was the case for me. It's really a vicious cycle as sleep deprivation can cause / exacerbate PPD, which in turn makes it that much harder to deal with night waking & fussiness. I didn't really begin aggressively treating my PPD until right about where you are - 8 mo or so. Once it was under control, my ds woke just as much but I wasn't as overwhelmed by it.

Finally, I think that it's really important to do what dh and I call "reconnecting with love." No matter how terrible a night your babe has, when you get up in the morning take a minute to look at his sweet face and think about how much you two love one another. You are his whole world, mama! And he is lucky lucky to have a mama as loving as you. It will get better, you'll all survive and live happily ever after, I promise.
post #65 of 145
Thread Starter 

Update- Night #1 in crib

So, we had DS in his crib for about half the night last night. We started a 'more strict' bedtime routine at 7- bath with daddy, read a book (Love You Forever), rock/nurse with mommy until almost asleep, then daddy takes over rocking (so that he falls asleep with Daddy). That part went pretty well, it took him awhile to settle down with me, but when he did and DH took over, he only cried for about 30 sec's with DH before falling asleep. DH took all night wakings until 11, and DS wasn't happy about it but he only cried for about 3-5 minutes with DH before falling asleep... then he slept for 2 HOURS!! : That is the longest stretch of sleep he's had in a long time!

After that he woke hourly (which is still better than 15-45 minutes he was waking this week!), and I finally brought him into our bed at 2, cuz I was tired of getting up and down. But I think we may gradually increase the time DH gets DS so that I can get a solid chunk in the beginning of the night. It makes a difference! I was really sad about it, but then I decided that DS can sleep with us the second half of the night, and so I feel ok with that. When we feel ready, we may try and transition him into the crib for the whole night, but we will see how this goes, and how it helps/hurts his sleep.

I have actually read Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child, and I have to say I didn't really like the overall tone of the book, or most of his approaches.. JMO ....

Thank you all for your advice and encouragement. I will keep you posted on how things are going. I am happy about our new nighttime routine, now I just need to come up with something different for naps...
post #66 of 145
I know this isn't a thread about *my* sleep issues, but I thought I'd share since this is the thread that helped me keep sane . . .

Well, we tried something new last night. DH slept w/DS from 10p-3a (we planned 11a-2, or until he woke up after 2) and dealt w/him that whole time, while I slept in the guest room. Apparently, DS woke up 3 or 4 times before 11:50 and basically screamed and cried and protested, all while in DH's arms. But then he fell asleep until 3a, when DH came and got me, and I got back into bed with them. He nursed and slept and woke up every 2 hours as normal, but without any crying, and it was really peaceful. So we're going to keep doing this and slowly night wean him. I don't consider it CIO if he's crying in our arms.

Thank the lord that DH is willing to keep doing this because I was really losing my marbles.

I feel a lot better today.
post #67 of 145
I didn't have time to read all the posts, but we read "Sleepless in America" and found it incredibly helpful! It is geared towards kids from infants until about 15 years old. It's fast reading and very enlightening. We got it at the library. It really helped us with dd and her sleeping. She still isn't the best sleeper, but we were able to change her routine before bed and now she does from dinner, quiet play, bath, nurse, sleep in 90 minutes instead of 3 hours. She also sleeps for 3-4 hours at a time instead of 1 (and without any tears).
post #68 of 145
[QUOTE=LadyCatherine185;13774932]So, we had DS in his crib for about half the night last night. We started a 'more strict' bedtime routine at 7- bath with daddy, read a book (Love You Forever), rock/nurse with mommy until almost asleep, then daddy takes over rocking (so that he falls asleep with Daddy). QUOTE]

Glad to hear things are getting better! The big thing we learned with dd was to have a calm bath time. It was totally unrealistic for my dd to have a hyper bath and be expected to sleep 30 minutes later. We have a small light on in the bathroom during bath, and some quiet playtime there.
post #69 of 145
Great news!!
So pleased to hear it's got a bit better
You may find that once DS starts to sleep more deeply, which it sounds like hopefully he is capable of, you can still have him on a mattress next to the bed. That's how we have it now, DD is next to me and I can reach out and touch her and it's lovely : as she is still so close to me and we haven't lost any of the joy of co-sleeping, just the awful wakings!

And we have seen her sleep just get deeper and deeper and with it, she seems to have calmed down a bit as well, generally during the day. She's not so hyper and I think it's because she's getting more rest, she's in a good routine, she knows exactly what's coming next in the evenings and the daytime naps have resolved themselves around a month now after the night-weaning.

So I really hope this gives you hope You may have a rocky couple of nights to follow this great start but don't be put off. Often it's 2 steps forward, 1 step back with these things. Hope it continues getting better generally though and well done for taking the bull by the horns! Soon now you will start to feel more human though it takes a while. I'm getting 5 hours straight now, but that's all the sleep i'm getting - that's another story but anyway, it's certainly better than 12 hours lying down in bed, getting woken EVERY HOUR! And even with that little sleep, I'm starting to feel better
post #70 of 145
:Glad it went better! I meant to post this in my OP, but forgot. With dd1, I never let her cry *at all*. Even in daddy's arms, nana's arms, or with me laying down next to her. And it drove me bananas. With dd2 I realized that ANY change will frustrate them, they can't understand that you are losing it and that this is for THIER health too. So, being picked up by daddy isn't their PREFERENCE, but it's not hurting them. They are in loving arms. And they may cry. Because it's new, it's a change to what they have known their whole little lives. But they are OK. Crying in a loving pair of arms is NOT CIO. Some people here would say that it is...however I disagree. Leaving a baby/toddler/child to cry ALONE when they are seeking comfort is CIO. Anytime you change up their life, the only way they can tell you something is to cry. So long as it's not prolonged or out of control, it's ok.
post #71 of 145
Thread Starter 

Nap Update....

So I took the "don't worry about it" approach with naps today... gave him several oppurtunities to nap, tried rocking/nursing, and nursing in bed, but when he faught it too hard, I gave up....

He is now (5:45 pm) down for only his SECOND nap of the day. He took ONE 45 minute nap this morning from 11-11:45. He woke up at 6 am this morning. that is 45 minutes of sleep in almost 12 hours. You cannot tell me that is normal or good for a 9 month old!

Since DH is home and we had some things to do today (went to the grocery store to get some food I can eat on my ED, for one!) it was easier to keep him busy/distracted from being tired. Now of course each time he fussed/rubbed his eyes/acted sleepy I did TRY to put him down for a nap. On a normal day when it is just me, I don't have the energy to keep him entertained for 11 hours a day!

oy.....
post #72 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyCatherine185 View Post
So I took the "don't worry about it" approach with naps today... gave him several oppurtunities to nap, tried rocking/nursing, and nursing in bed, but when he faught it too hard, I gave up....

He is now (5:45 pm) down for only his SECOND nap of the day. He took ONE 45 minute nap this morning from 11-11:45. He woke up at 6 am this morning. that is 45 minutes of sleep in almost 12 hours. You cannot tell me that is normal or good for a 9 month old!

Since DH is home and we had some things to do today (went to the grocery store to get some food I can eat on my ED, for one!) it was easier to keep him busy/distracted from being tired. Now of course each time he fussed/rubbed his eyes/acted sleepy I did TRY to put him down for a nap. On a normal day when it is just me, I don't have the energy to keep him entertained for 11 hours a day!

oy.....

I would call it bedtime then and not a nap and try to get him back to sleep when he wakes. My daughter used to go to bed at 5:30pm every night (woke up at 7am) and my son does too if he doesn't get his third nap, otherwise it's 6 or 6:30pm. He usually gets up between 6 and 6:30am regardless of when he went to sleep.
post #73 of 145
PM'd you.
post #74 of 145
well, here is my experience I haven't read the whole thread so forgive me if I repeat

My daughter is nearing 20 months. She JUST started sttn about 3 weeks ago. I nightweaned her around 18 months. For the first 14 months of her life she woke up nightly every 15-20 minutes. That is no exageration. Nobody believed me, everyone thought I was lying. But I am telling you, it is true. I cried and cried everyday. Everyone told me to stick it out, just get through it. But no one was waking up every 20 minutes except ME! If I didn't nurse her, she'd scream. If I didnt' give in, and tried to cuddle her she'd scream until I nursed her no matter how long I tried to hold out, she'd scream until she nursed.

I may take some criticism for this, but at 14 months I did the Baby Whisperer pick up put down method. After a while of that she was ready for me to do the walk in walk out method. I taught her how to fall asleep on her own. She started sleeping a little longer. Then at 18ish months I just decided I couldn't take another second of the torture and nightweaned her. The first night was AWFUL to say the VERY least. crying and crying. But then it was ok. slowely things got easier at night and then one night 11 days after I nightweaned her she woke up at 1 am and I realized. OH.MY.GOSH! This SUCKS! I've been sttn with her for 11 days and didnt' realize that she was doing it!!!

Now that she's older we found out she has numerous food allergies. wheat, dairy, red fruits, eggs, soy, some food dyes. I had given up dairy and wheat and soy, but never would have thought of giving up red furits! I don't know if that had THAT much to do with her nightwakings, because she started sttn before we found out about them.

In hindsight, if I have a child like this again I will not be afraid to very gently sleep "train" for my sanity. I was a grouchy mean mama and wife. And I had a reason! It was the worst year and I wasn't me. We give up a LOT for our babies. And sleep deprivation is part of being a mother. But I learned that I am a mother not a martyr. And when my health started going down hill I knew I had to do something (hallucinating, passing out randomly, blurry vision, hair falling out ect). I guess what I"m trying to say is do what you have to do that is what is best for your baby and you. Obviously cio isn't good for your baby so that is nixed. but there are other options. you can pm me if you have other questions
post #75 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekingJoy View Post
I posted on one of your threads a few months ago, but I wanted to put this suggestion out again. Have you tried reading Sleepless in America?

Also, DS sounds just like your son. A CRAPPY sleeper. Fought sleep like no one's business. All the AP/conventional sleep advice just didn't and doesn't work for him. He is now 3.5 and we are coming out of the other side, but sleep (his lack of it leading to aggressive, disruptive behavior) is still a huge issue in our family. It gets better, but slowly.

This sounds crazy and I will probably get flamed, but here it is.

For us, we had to break the cycle of sleeplessness and being overtired.

*DS needs/ed a strict routine. I still nursed on demand, but sleep wasn't on demand. Because he could go from "happy, happy, happy" to screaming his head off in 30 seconds. Literally. As he got older, his clues get clearer, but even DH misses them half the time.

* More frequent, but shorter naps were what worked. In the beginning, it felt like I spent most of our day getting him to sleep, and I did, but it got better. He had a newborn's 2-hour cycle until almost a year. He took two naps a day until almost 2. He *just* dropped his afternoon nap. He has always required more nighttime parenting and had a delay in meeting sleep "milestones." It sounds like you understand his need for more sleep parenting, but are at a loss for additional strategies to try. Hope some of this helps.

* I stopped doing anything that would stretch our routine. I would leave the grocery store with only half our list picked up. I would cut lunch short. I would bail on friends. No matter what, at 9 am we were getting ready for nap. We also refused to travel. Our vacay with DS at 7 months was a nightmare, and we didn't travel again for a year.

* I moved DS to his own crib own room. We co-sleep periodically, but between 6 months - 24 or so, DS at least started each night and napped alone in his crib. I disturbed him. It turned out that even more than me, DH's tossing and turning disturbs him.

* I started putting him to sleep on his stomach with his crib (and therefore mattress) raised at one end slightly.

* We picked a bed time routine and stuck with it. That has changed over the past few years of course, but DS needed to know each step and what was coming next so he could relax. Teeth, story, song, bounce to sleep upright on a birth ball (nursing to sleep aggravated the reflux). This sounds really regimented and like I am a control freak, but I promise this isn't how I pictured parenting. It isn't how I parent DD. DS needs it.

* When he got older (26 months or so) we periodically gave him meletonin. Its OTC and a supplement. We gave him a VERY small dose. But honestly, that was what saved my marriage and sanity. A night or two of it and a really early bedtime helped DS "reset" his internal sleep clock. Turns out he is extremely sensitive to cortisol, whether from emotional stress or lack of sleep.

You might want to keep him on the reflux meds even if they don't immediately work. DS was on them until 9 months, but periodically would have to get back on them later.

Hope even one part of this helps. PM if I you have questions or want additional support. It will get better even if you do nothing, but there are things you can try now to help somewhat.
I tried to post something similar to this thread twice already, got a big long post typed out and then DD woke up and by the time I got back teh computer had eaten it

Anyway, we found that a very strict schedule was needed when it came to DD's sleep. I haven't read Sleepless in America, but I got the idea from Raising your Spirited Kid, by the same author I think. DD is very irregular, and left to her own devices will not sleep, or do anything with any regularity.

It's all gone out the window lately becuase we're in the middle of moving countries, changing jobs etc. and I've just had to accept that I can't keep to a strict routine in the middle of all of this, though I'm still doing my best to provide dd with as much structure as I can.

But for a while there sleep was, while not good, reasonable. I enforced two naps a day and if she didn't sleep fine, but she had to stay in bed with me. Same for bedtime. It meant I had to give up any idea of doing anything else while she was supposedly 'napping' or 'sleeping' but after a while she got the idea that we were going to be there for the same amount of time no matter what so she may as well sleep.

We also had some success with DH going in and doing the early night-wakings for about a month until she went through some serious separation anxiety and started screaming for me - I'm back to doing all the night-wakings again now.

Good luck - I hope you find something that works for you all soon.
post #76 of 145
I'm glad that starting the night in the crib with dh going in for the first nightwakings met with some success! That makes me inclined to think that the core issue is not allergies, reflux etc. but simply that sleeping next to you is too stimulating. Both of my kids transitioned to the crib around 7 months, not because I was "done" with cosleeping, but because THEY were. They would wake up every hour and scream and yell in obvious frustration that they had been awoken. I never thought I'd be the kind of mom who was staggering down the hall at 2 a.m. to feed the baby, but that's what ended up happening!

"I understand people mean well when they say to just "relax" and "let up on the sleeping" and "Not to worry about the sleeping"... ok, so what am I supposed to do with a sleepy, fussy, crying baby who desperately needs a nap?! And please, someone tell me how I am supposed to just "relax" and "stop worrying" about his sleeping?? Alcohol? Drugs?"

My first child took many naps in the Bjorn while I rocked in my glider drinking a glass of wine and reading a romance novel, very deliberately NOT thinking about him even though he was literally on top of me. So, yes. Alcohol.

If I were you, I think I'd focus more on my OWN sleep needs (i.e. a decent chunk at night), and if you have a baby who stops napping in the daytime before he's year old, well, he won't be the first baby who has ever done that. He may be tired and cranky, and obviously you'll keep trying any new idea that you come across to help him sleep during the day, but ultimately it's not something you can control. He may just not be cut out to do it. At night, for your own sanity and health, you and dh need to insist that it's sleeping time for the whole family, and it sounds like your initial efforts in that direction are going well! Keep it up!
post #77 of 145
Thread Starter 

Update- Night #2 "in crib"

"in crib" is in quotes cuz it didn't happen..

Last night DS realized what we were doing. He did NOT want to sleep in that crib. He fell asleep reasonably easy, DH put him down and he immediately woke and screamed. DH picked him back up, rocked him back to sleep, put him back down, SCREAM. This time it took awhile to console him. After about 30-40 minutes of this pick up put down thing, I came in, I couldn't take the screaming anymore. He wasn't even calming down in the rocker with DH..

So I rocked him, he was out in less than a minute, and I put him in the crib. He stayed asleep for about an hour, and when he woke up he let out the most heartbreaking "i'm scared mama!" scream... I went and got him, tried rocking him and he wouldn't calm down.

So I took him to our bed and nursed him on the bed and he drifted off to a peaceful sleep. He slept the night in our bed, and actually didn't do too bad! I think he was up every hour or so, but, like I said earlier, better than every 15 minutes!

I can't go through that again, I know DS is NOT ready for his crib, and I'm not ready for him to be there either. Tonight, we are going to put his matress on the floor in our room and try that..
post #78 of 145
oh, mama

I haven't had a chance to read all the posts, but I just had to pop in and say that I totally understand. You DS sounds very similar to my DS, except my DS isn't as strict about his environment.

My DS fights sleep like crazy. Last night was a three hour wrestling match. He was clearly tired - rubbing eyes, yawning... but he did NOT want to sleep. He typically sleep for about an hour at a time. To be totally honest with you, most nights I am sleeping with him in my arms.

DH and I are thinking about TTC #2, but to be honest, I have no idea when we could DTD!! I mean, if DS would take a nap on his own, without me holding him, that would help so so so much. If he would sleep in his crib for more than 30 minutes, that would help too.

I hear you when you say that you are catering to your DS's needs, but it is just exhausting. I feel the same way.

I wish I had advice. I've read The No Cry Sleep Solution, but nothing helped. Every night I just keep telling myself that he will EVENTUALLY improve... when he is ready. It may take a while, but he'll get there.

When I am not NAKing I'll come back and read this entire thread. Thanks for being so open and honest about how craptacular nights can be with babies who don't want to sleep (ever). If I ever come across a workable solution, I'll be sure to send you instructions!
post #79 of 145
Just a friendly reminder to all those with crappy sleepers...NEVER talk about or post about how well your crappy sleeper is currently sleeping . The sleep gods will remind you that you have gotten too comfortable by taking back the good sleeping mojo they had bestowed on your little one.

My son was up about 350 times between the hours of 8:30pm and 1:30am. He was exhausted and wanted desperately to sleep but was having trouble getting there and even when he did, he couldn't stay there. My mom showed up yesterday afternoon for a week long stay and brought a bunch of loud light up blinky toys and I think they might have overstimulated him. At least I'm hoping it's that simple.

Anyway, Catie, I'm sorry to hear things didn't go as smoothly last night. My son was pretty receptive to the crib in his room and slept much better in it, but if that were not the case, I wouldn't have pushed it either. Maybe you could look into sidecarring since you said he seems to want to spread out. That way he could still be close but have his own space too.
post #80 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by riverscout View Post
Just a friendly reminder to all those with crappy sleepers...NEVER talk about or post about how well your crappy sleeper is currently sleeping . The sleep gods will remind you that you have gotten too comfortable by taking back the good sleeping mojo they had bestowed on your little one.

My son was up about 350 times between the hours of 8:30pm and 1:30am. He was exhausted and wanted desperately to sleep but was having trouble getting there and even when he did, he couldn't stay there. My mom showed up yesterday afternoon for a week long stay and brought a bunch of loud light up blinky toys and I think they might have overstimulated him. At least I'm hoping it's that simple.

Anyway, Catie, I'm sorry to hear things didn't go as smoothly last night. My son was pretty receptive to the crib in his room and slept much better in it, but if that were not the case, I wouldn't have pushed it either. Maybe you could look into sidecarring since you said he seems to want to spread out. That way he could still be close but have his own space too.
So true! My crappy sleeper (3.5 yrs) was up a bunch last night.

riverscout, the sidecar sounds like a good next strategy to try. Similarly, doing naps in the crib first so LO can wake up and see a familiar place around him could also help.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Co-sleeping and the Family Bed
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Baby › Co-sleeping and the Family Bed › Desperate. Desperate. thread- UPDATE our vacation!