Christians, how do you discipline your children? - Page 2

[PDeverit]

Most compelling of all reasons not to hit

Most compelling of all reasons not to spank are the following (which can be verified by people who were actually spanked themselves by doing a little research):


"Even without sexual motives on the part of the punisher, spanking can interfere with a child's normal sexual and psychological development. Because the buttocks are so close to the genitals and so multiply linked to sexual nerve centers, slapping them can trigger powerful and involuntary sensations of sexual pleasure. This can happen even in very young children, and even in spite of great, clearly upsetting pain."
Tom Johnson Sexual Dangers of Spanking Children

“...The buttocks are the locus for the induction of pain in a child. We are familiar with the argument that it is a safe ‘locus’ for spanking. However, the anal region is also the major erotic region at precisely the time the child is likely to be beaten there. Thus it is aptly chosen to achieve the result of deranged sexuality in adulthood...” 1971 (p. 113)

David Bakan, Slaughter of the Innocents,1971 (p. 113)


“Advocates of corporal punishment in schools should examine very carefully the weight of evidence now available and, particularly in light of the pornographic component, consider whether they can justify the continuation of a system with such a capacity for exciting unhealthy interest.”
British Psychological Society, “Report on Corporal Punishment in Schools” (1980)

“But what you would not so readily believe upon my affirmation, was that there are persons who are stimulated to venery by strokes of rods, and worked up into a flame of lust by blows... A strange instance what a power the force of education has in grafting inveterate ill habits on our morals...”

Johann Heinrich Meibom, physician, 1629


Unpleasant as this information is, we do our children a great disservice when we fail to acknowledge its truth.

Had we not turned a blind eye to the unpleasant phenomena of clergy abuse of children 40-50 years ago, many children would have been spared its consequences.


To learn more about this issue, visit www.nospank.net, or another comparable link.

[Whistler]

Having a rhythm to our day helps the most to keep things on an even keel. I have heard this called "habit training" although I doubt we take it as far as some with a really rigid schedule. But especially with meals if we keep them at roughly the same time of day it helps so much because IMO a lot of "acting out" is based on hunger or low blood sugar. Another thing that we do as a habit is picking up. We pick up the toys every day before we eat lunch and they are used to that since we do it consistently each time.

We also practice. If one of the kids does something that hurts someone else or is unsafe I walk through the situation with them and model a better response or action. For instance, we practice walking around the car and staying out of the alley and practice being gentle with the pets or playing nicely together.

Something that really helps the "leaving the playground" problems is a warning. I tell them they may play for one more minute (or five more minutes) and they can finish whatever they are doing. I am amazed how well it works to prevent the tantrums that can go with leaving a playground.

[*Aimee*]

thank you for all the wonderful advice. I feel very much equipped now.

Today we talked about how I was sorry I used to spank him, and I promised to use kindness from now on. He said it made him feel bad and sad and mad when I spanked him. Then later when I was telling DH what he said he covered his ears. It really devastates me on so many levels.

[The4OfUs]

you should be proud of yourself for being committed to fixing your relationship - I know I'm proud of you, and I don't even know you - I'm always in awe of parents who can change the cycles they've lived and learned in the face of opposition. I'm sure you'll have ups and downs like any parent-child pair, but I'm confident any issues can be repaired, and that you and your son can and will heal.

[canadiyank]

Please check out the www.gentlechristianmothers.com/mb site that was linked to. Until recently I was a GD moderator there and it's been a wonderful place of learning and support to me. Check out the GD Forum as well as the GD Info and FAQs section. In addition, you may find the articles at AOLFF helpful. I'm a firm believer in Grace-Based Discipline and have loved developing the skills that help me parent in that manner. I also have a friend who's written a response to TTUAC that you might be interested in here.

HTH!

[annettemarie]

*Aimee*, this is such a powerful, big step. You and your family will be in my prayers.

One thing that helps me is to ask myself "How would Jesus deal with this?" I can never picture him striking a child.

[*Aimee*]

Thank you so much. I feel now that we told DS we're not going to be hitting him anymore he's going crazy. He's not listening to anything we ask him to do, hurting his (sick) baby brother constantly and wow, really being 2 He is giving us a run for our money. Last night he wanted to go get dinner with DH, and when they got to the store he wanted to sit on a bench. DH told him that he knew he wanted to sit there, but they needed to hurry so they could get back home because it was late. DS started screaming and lay flat on the floor!! He's never done this. So DH brought him back home and then left. I told him that because he couldn't follow Daddy's rules for the store he had to sit with me at home so Daddy could finish his shopping.

It seemed to be effective, but he cried for almost 20 min. about not being able to go get dinner. I really felt that with spanking I had a plan. Of course it was an abusive plan that, in DS's words, "is just not working". But I feel now that I'm kinda just flailing along. I'm going to check out all the links today.

Thank you again, you ladies are so fantastic

[annettemarie]

Also from Scripture:
Correct your son, and he will give you comfort; He will also delight your soul.
~ Proverbs 29:17

"Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me."
~ Matthew 25:40

Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.
~ Ephesians 6:4

Fathers, do not exasperate your children, so that they will not lose heart.
~ Colossians 3:21

“But we were gentle among you, like a mother caring for her little children.” 1 Thessalonians 2:7
“My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.” John 15:12

“What do you prefer? Shall I come to you with a whip (KJV says rod), or in love and with a gentle spirit?” 1 Corinthians 4:21

This link
has more about the rod.

[canadiyank]

Thank you, annettemarie.

I am glad this is a safe place for those of us who don't believe the Proverbs verses mean to beat your child with an inch-thick rod (shebet). B/c "spanking" is nowhere in the Bible. Discipline is.

And believe it or not, I discipline my children. They are well-disciplined and I've been told we're the only family people have seen that don't spank yet actually *discipline* our children. Plus, spanking doesn't automatically = discipline. It's the teaching that goes on that disciples our children. Here's an excellent post called Spanking isn't the issue or the focus that addresses that very thing, that it's the *teaching* that's key to discipline/discipleship.

[annettemarie]

You'll actually find that many of us like to dig into the whole of the text, including the original Hebrew/Greek, rather than proof-texting. I would suggest you begin with a word study of shebet and na'ar in the book of Proverbs.

[canadiyank]

The Bible says to discipline - it does not say *how.* It doesn't say to spank - if someone is going to take "the rod" verses literally, then they must beat their offspring with an inch-thick stick on their backs, as the directions for fools and slaves were given.

I started out thinking I would spank, since that's the way both my dh and I were raised, and I thought it was the "Biblical" way to discipline since that's what Christian *culture* (NOT the Bible) had taught me. Fortunately I joined a group for Christian AP mothers that taught me gentle discipline ways and how the Bible teaches that we are to discipline/disciple our children. Some choose to spank to do that...so be it. But it's not the more or only "Biblical" way.

I am glad the OP is looking into more gentle methods. I'm not a perfect parent by any means, but I treat my children with grace and correction, as my Saviour treats me.

[tempestjewel]

I have a couple more links I like, that I don't think have been listed yet.

First, for practical skills for parenting, I love: http://goybparenting.com/ and she has some resources for Christian parents as well.

For a detailed, theological discussion, I like: http://parentingfreedom.com/discipline/ It is a very linear, analytical discussion (which my brain holds onto well). There is also a link to Samuel Martin's book that discusses Proverbs which is an excellent read (and free to download in PDF).

Sometimes it is just comforting to know you are not alone in wanting to be gentle and a Christian in your parenting. There are many of us that are lead to be the same thing, and it is awesome that you are beginning this journey

[genifer]

The Bible says to discipline

Now, Ive not gone and done one of those fancy indepth word search where you tease out the meaning of the words in scripture from the original greek/hebrew... but I do know that the word discipline comes from the word 'disciple' or vice versa... To Disciple my children means that I am setting the example... when I make a mistake, I sincerely apologise, when I learn something new, I teach it to them, I am talking about spiritual matters as well as all the other matters that come up in parenting. When I see them doing something that is wrong or seems wrong, Ill take them to the side (mine are 10yo twin girls and an 8yo boy) and teach then the correct way of ...behaving, speaking, thinking. I could give SO MANY examples of how Ive disciplined... or discipled... my kids like this... And whats more is that every child is different, and every. single. situation or circumstance that needs 'correction'... is different, and I deal with them all differently, with patience... Im not perfect, admittedly, Im sat here, semi-ignoring them right now!! LOL. However, I do strive to parent in this way.

Fwiw, I had the same sort of epiphany moment the op had when she began to pray about this issue... It went like this.

I was very frustrated with my kids, mostly bc they wouldnt clean up or do what I was asking them to do at that given moment. I said to them 'Right, go get the spatula'... and I did do what I am ashamed to admit right now. My dd was so upset, not so much from the pain, but from the humiliation and exasperation of it all... it wasnt just the spanking that was wrong in my parenting at that time. It hit me that something wasnt right, I personally was driven by anger at that time. I heard the Holy Spirit wisper 'Gen, do I treat you like that?'... and the answer was 'No, Im sorry Lord, I just dont know how to do this'... and let Him teach me. Patience and waiting to respond to different things that need disciplining is so important to me now. I used to shout a lot, but I dont anymore. I mean, I lose it some times but as a practice ... I strive to be better then that. We use some losing of priveleges for different things, sometimes we just talk about it. For things like lying, I dont think its bad to let the child know they let you down, that you are disappointed in their lying, letting it sink in, forgiving and letting them know I do expect more from them. Anyway, this is a good topic, whether it belongs here or in the other place, gentle discipline, if it were there Id not have found it, bc I dont go there.

Now, for your son hitting others here is what *I* would do. My son has done this. On one occassion I was just so shocked I just reacted and swiftly led him out of the room and dealt with it by telling him that what he did was wrong. He was only about 5 at the time, but I had to figure out why he had behaved like that towards another lad his age. Thats how I dealt with it, questioning why he behaved like that, then talking to all my children about how the best way to respond when we are angry. If its something that Ive got my wits about me when it occurs Id get down on his level, eye level and say speak very clearly and calmly, but very sternly that what he has done is unexceptable, hitting others is not right. For me its the firmness, sternness in my voice that tell my kids that I know what Im talking about.

got to go now... ttfn
gen

[wombatclay]

Moving to Gentle Discipline...

[mommy2abigail]

*Aimee*, wow, it's amazing what God will whisper to our hearts when we are listening! I will be praying for you, for your family and for your friends. I just posted something similar because we are dealing with this as well, from friends of dh's. Aside from the other websites, I would highly highly recommend Pastor Luttons site, http://aolff.com/. It has been immensely helpful for me.

[SunShineSally]

Ohh mama I cried reading your post. Children are a gift from God they need to be treated as one. I am so proud that you see this and are standing up for those little girls in a peaceful way. I am Christian (raised Catholic) I was spanked and what not but I will not spank Ds I am not saying I never had only twice once he pulled our kitty by the tail from one room to the other and another was a reflex and I bawled my eyes out he clamped on to my nipple so hard! no one is perfect please do not beat yourself up about having spanked your Dc you know better and now you want to do better that is what is important. I will pray for those little girls and have my church pray also if that is okay if not let me know I hope that you will soon see a better bond with your Dc a bond you never knew before I ended up with a deeper one when I desided to switch the way I talked and interacted with Ds. Your whole family will be better for it! Not that it will be easy to change!!!!

I use GD with him when he does wrong I sit and talk about it he gets a number of chances and if he does not listen he sits with me or if he wants he sit alone. He is a sensitive child and this is what works for us.

By the way what is switching???? if already answered Sorry I did not read the replies yet

[SunShineSally]

Originally Posted by annettemarie

Also from Scripture:
Correct your son, and he will give you comfort; He will also delight your soul.
~ Proverbs 29:17

"Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me."
~ Matthew 25:40

Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.
~ Ephesians 6:4

Fathers, do not exasperate your children, so that they will not lose heart.
~ Colossians 3:21

“But we were gentle among you, like a mother caring for her little children.” 1 Thessalonians 2:7
“My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.” John 15:12

“What do you prefer? Shall I come to you with a whip (KJV says rod), or in love and with a gentle spirit?” 1 Corinthians 4:21

This link
has more about the rod.

Those are beautiful tears yet again reading this thread! I must be truely hormonal today

[Super Glue Mommy]

Thank you for doing this for your child. (hugs) Takes a very big person with a very big heart to admit the truth about spanking and change their ways. You and your family will heal from this - what you are doing is amazing and not many people are willing to face the facts that lead to change when it comes to this subject. Instead of manipulating Gods word to suit your current life style, you opened your heart to hear His truth. I wish more Christians would follow in the footsteps of the Lord as you are now.

[Think of Winter]

Originally Posted by *Aimee*

... when they got to the store he wanted to sit on a bench. DH told him that he knew he wanted to sit there, but they needed to hurry so they could get back home because it was late. DS started screaming and lay flat on the floor!! He's never done this. So DH brought him back home and then left. I told him that because he couldn't follow Daddy's rules for the store he had to sit with me at home so Daddy could finish his shopping.

Hi Aimee,
Welcome to GD. : I'm so happy for you and the rest of your family that you had this epiphany. We are Christian, and I honestly can't understand the position that Christian parenting requires spanking. Hitting a child is not Christ-like. Anyway, I think you've gotten tons of great scriptural references.

Your story about your 2 yr old having a tantrum because your dh wouldn't let him sit on a bench sounded really familiar. You were right on when you wrote that he was being really 2. My dd is a couple of weeks older than your son, and would have responded the same way. One thing I've sort of figured out in the last 5 yrs is that a lot of our discipline 'problems' are really age-appropriate behavior that happens to be inconvenient for us.

We do a lot of compromises at my house. Like, 10-12 per day. In that situation, your dh's best bet would likely have been to to say "okay, but just for 2 minutes." Would have been a lot quicker than running him home, and a lot less traumatic. I have been there myself many times, and as they say, hindsight is 20/20. But my point is, flexibility is pretty critical to gd, and it takes a huge shift in thinking. My inlaws do not get it. Most people don't get it. But no child will go along with what a parent wants all the time, and it really is better to say 'yes' whenever possible.

I subscribed to a daily parenting email message called The Daily Groove. It's been great. Full of great little ideas to stay connected to your dc and keep the faith that you're doing the right thing by using gd.

Good luck mama, and congratulations on stopping spanking.

[dulce de leche]

Just wanted to agree with the awesome posts here, and to give you lots of hugs. Grace is for mamas, too! I am always delighted to hear another parent who is learning more about GBD.

You've gotten such great stuff already, I just wanted to remind you that in the day to day stuff as new situations arise, you have a support network here who will happily help you brainstorm new approaches.

Much love to you!