my boys brought me a lizard on a stick.

[mamaof3tobe]

i am horrified and saddened that I have to write this, and I am also in desperate need of some wise mama advice. My kids killed a lizard by choking it with a stick. The worst part is, their dad thought it was funny and joked with them about having lizards for dinner. They have no remorse or empathy at all.

Here is some background on us:
My boys are 6 and 4. They are both pretty spirited children, but they have never shown aggression toward animals. My husband is very laid back, but a good guy and an animal lover so I'm shocked that he would joke with them about it. We are attached parents, we try to be as gentle as we can with the boys.

Here is what I've done so far:
When my oldest showed me the lizard, I was horrified. I turned around and walked into the office (where my husband was) and said "wtf?!!!" and he smiled and said he was shocked too, but seemed to shrug it off. I took the kids inside and sent them both to their rooms (which isn't something I normally would do but i was so angry I couldn't look at them.) I then asked my husband to make them lunch so I could come in here and write this. I don't know what to say to my kids.

Thank you

[dfunk98]

i'm sorry mama. i don't really have any advice for you, but wanted you to know that someone was listening to you and to give you a

[vegemamato]

wow- I would be horrified too (at both the lizard and dad's reaction). It's a bit different for us than it is for most families since we're vegan and participate in anrimal rights groups, but even if we didn't do these things I would still be very bothered.

I don't really know what advice to give you, other than to talk with the boys about compassion toward all living things, look at a few websites about animals (how they live, what they eat, et cetera), goodwill any books that you have that have images/words you aren't comfortable with (this varies by family, obviously) and remember that they're only kids (maybe explain that you were so surprised and grossed out that you wanted them to go into their rooms so you could calm down?)..

As far as their dad, I would have a very serious discussion about what you feel is appropriate when it comes to things like this, and maybe let him know that you were somewhat shocked and really didn't appreciate his joke.

I'm sorry though- how ick!

[AVeryGoodYear]

Oh my gosh, this made me feel sick to my stomach too. But then I remembered when I was 7 a neighbour boy caught a horseshoe crab and killed it and we all dissected it together. It wasn't really done maliciously, just out of curiousity, but I do feel remorseful about it now.

I don't really have anything to offer as to how you handle this with gentle discipline, but I do want to try and reassure you that their behaviour doesn't necessarily set a precedent for future cruelty against animals. Maybe to make up for it / learn from it there's something they can do with animals to empathize with them more -- walk your/your neighbour's dog every afternoon for a week?

I'm sorry, I can't imagine how shocking and upsetting this must have been for you.

[readytobedone]

it seems like your sons didn't know it was wrong. i know as a little kid, my mom killed ants and such with a magnifying glass...she's not a sociopath, i promise

she felt really bad in retrospect, but at the time just didn't really realize what she had done.

6 and 4 is really young. i would try approaching it with them more from the standpoint of explanation/teaching, instead of consequences. maybe let them start some kind of worm garden/caterpillar hourse/something so that they are constantly interacting with little creatures and have an opportunity to learn about living things, and being gentle with them. this really isn't an inborn thing at all, IMO.

now your DH--that's another story. i would be disturbed by that reaction too. but then again, men can be a little more flippant about living creatures IME. DH was talking about how he killed a bunch of silkworms with a blow torch the other weekend. *shudder*

i would talk with your DH about the importance of teaching them to respect living creatures, and then make sure you're on the same page going forward.

it's very sad, of course, but i don't think this incident means anything sinister about your sons. they just haven't learned this yet.

[RiverSky]

Oh how awful, I can totally understand how much that must have upset you. Don't worry, I truly don't think it's a sign that of any future traits for your children, but you can use it as a learning experience. You can now focus on teaching your children empathy for creatures of all sorts.

[alllyssa]

I'm sure if your DH is a decent man, he's got more experience on what normal boy behavior includes. In my experience, completely normal boys do things like this occasionally and there is a balance between freaking out and thinking that they are future serial killers and completely blowing it off.

And lizards aren't really animals, IMO, they are more like really big bugs. It's not like they killed the neighbor's cat.

[sisteeesmama]

Ew, I do not like lizards, but I think I might have teared up thinking about how painful a death that must have been for the little thing.

I think I would have told them that if they killed it on purpose they would have to eat it because we don't kill animals for fun, we kill them for food, so how would you like it prepared?

[Mulvah]

Originally Posted by alllyssa

I'm sure if your DH is a decent man, he's got more experience on what normal boy behavior includes. In my experience, completely normal boys do things like this occasionally and there is a balance between freaking out and thinking that they are future serial killers and completely blowing it off. ***

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Edited by Mulvah - 10/16/11 at 6:20am

[vegemamato]

Originally Posted by alllyssa

I'm sure if your DH is a decent man, he's got more experience on what normal boy behavior includes. In my experience, completely normal boys do things like this occasionally and there is a balance between freaking out and thinking that they are future serial killers and completely blowing it off.

And lizards aren't really animals, IMO, they are more like really big bugs. It's not like they killed the neighbor's cat.

Normal boy behavior doesn't have to include killing an animal though (or mutilating bugs or anything). I have known (nannied for) a few boys who were on both ends- one ripped the head off a snake when he was 5, another would spend all of his time making 'beds' for our cat, bringing her food/water and kissing her every chance he got (4 yrs old). I def don't think that any of these situations- including the OP's- are indicators of future behaviors/beliefs though..

Also, I have to disagree about lizards not being 'real' animals, and (for me) I would be just as sad about a bug as I would a cat (if it were intentional). Not that anyone else has to feel that way

[Momtwice]

They EXPRESSED no remorse...but they might be feeling it. Bringing it to show you might have been their way of saying, uh oh, what did we do. Not showing emotion could be denial/shock. Or they could simply be processing the experience and not sure what to think so they show it to you, bring it to you for guidance.

I could be wrong, but it's possible.

I too would have been horrified and sick. Now you have a "teachable moment" which you never would have asked for but is an opportunity to impart your values.

[KBinSATX]

Originally Posted by vegemamato

Normal boy behavior doesn't have to include killing an animal though (or mutilating bugs or anything). I have known (nannied for) a few boys who were on both ends- one ripped the head off a snake when he was 5, another would spend all of his time making 'beds' for our cat, bringing her food/water and kissing her every chance he got (4 yrs old). I def don't think that any of these situations- including the OP's- are indicators of future behaviors/beliefs though..

Also, I have to disagree about lizards not being 'real' animals, and (for me) I would be just as sad about a bug as I would a cat (if it were intentional). Not that anyone else has to feel that way

ITA on both.

Not sure what to do about OPs experience though but I wouldn't just write it off as a boy thing and I would have a talk with DH.

[lolar2]

Originally Posted by sisteeesmama

I think I would have told them that if they killed it on purpose they would have to eat it because we don't kill animals for fun, we kill them for food, so how would you like it prepared?

I like this idea!

[Ambystoma]

I think you can have gentle conversations with your boys about it without worrying too much. Do you have a museum/zoo/aquarium nearby that have small animals like reptiles in it? You could take them, so they can learn about small animals and how important they are to the ecosystem and how responsive and intelligent the creatures are. Even a good book would work, or Discovery channel DVDs. (For instance, the red back salamanders in appalachia have complex social interactions, where they remember individuals as friends/foes, etc and will respond in a variety of ways for years!) Letting your sons learn about characteristics they can relate to will make the animals more relatable to them, and they will be more interested in watching, not squishing, these beautiful creatures.

Originally Posted by alllyssa

And lizards aren't really animals, IMO, they are more like really big bugs. It's not like they killed the neighbor's cat.

Attitudes like this about animals are why children develop fears and general lack of care about the earth and the creatures on it. I won't get into an argument with anyone about it, but reptiles are much more complex than the average person thinks. They remember via smell (maybe not by sight like many mammals) and can develop trust, fear, learn things, etc. Just because something is small or isn't furry, doesn't mean it is worthless. Usually the large, furry animals are WAY less important at a habitat/ecosystem level anyhow. And without lizards around the house-there would be a lot more insects in the cabinets!

[1littlebit]

i read your title and laughed b/c i thought you meant a stick with a lizard sitting on it which would have been rather impressive.

however, now that i have read your whole post i would have been shocked too. it definitely doesn't mean your kids are going to grow up and be serial killers... though if they make a hobby out of it I would be concerned.

i think talking to them about what they did and telling them that while curiosity is a good and natural thing we cannot let our curiosity be more important than the lives of innocent creatures. tell them its ok to play with lizards (and other creepy crawlies) but its not ok to hurt them. if they are already dead i dont see a problem with them poking at it a little bit.

i wouldnt make a big deal about it though. as long as they understand that killing other living things for reasons other then food is unacceptable i think you will have made your point. i dont think it is a good idea for them to dwell on how wrong it is etc. b/c it was mistake, the didnt understand, and they don't need a guilt complex yk?

btw i think lizards are animals but i do think it is different then killing the neighbors cat. if your kids killed the neighbors cat i would probably recommend therapy.. but in this case i think a few conversations about respecting other living things will suffice.

[theretohere]

For a first time thing, I'd be grossed out and sad, but I wouldn't give them any consequences. I'd explain why it isn't OK, and that it killed another creature.
Now, if it became a habit it'd be something to explore more deeply, but I don't see this as particularly concerning.

[willowsmom]

You've had some good responses here...

Lizards ARE animals... and they deserve to live just like mammals do.

They're young. I think that they don't fully understand the gravity of killing an animal or smooshing a bug or something like that.

I'm trying to teach Willow that living creatures deserve to stay that way. We've had a housefly problem here recently and she had captured one in a bug vacuum and wanted me to spray it with bug spray and watch it die. I told her that I couldn't torture it and took it outside where we let it go. Now, granted... a fly isn't going to live all that long and they're a disgusting nuisance (in my opinion)...but that doesn't give me the authority to torture/kill it for the purpose of entertainment.

I like the idea of asking them how they would like it cooked. I'm not a fan of killing for fun, so... I may be a bit biased.

I'm sorry your husband was callous.

[yrina]

I think we had the same experience. My husband always teach our son some jokes towards me. Of course my son thought its okay and normal. In your case, it is your first time to handle that situation. Maybe your husband had just a wild joke and wanted to find out what will be your reaction. They want to see the other side of your attitude. Just calm yourself, talk to your kids in a nice way and tell them that although you were shocked you don't want to be mean to them. I know your children felt sorry for what they have done base on your reaction.

[battymama]

I would be horrified too, but at 6 and 4 children really dont have the best impusle control. I remember when i was about that age catching a lizard and looking tried to give him a bath, it didnt end well mr lizard drowned, i still feel horrible about it to this day. But at the time it seemed like such a good idea ya know? hot day, hes been out in the garden, who doesnt enjoy a nice bath?

Personally i would get some books and sites on lizards, discus them, let your boys see how incredible they are. And discuss all type of animals, as well as why they did what they did. My feeling it was probably an in the moment thing, and it is done now, the best you can do is try to make sure it doesnt happen again.

[Mama.Pajama]

This takes me back to when me and my siblings were little and dissected horny toads...
I know it's disturbing to think that your kids would find pleasure in killing a living thing, but I it's just a phase, and your kids absolutely do not have the frame of reference (i.e. understanding) that you do about death- they were just playing like boys (...and girls do at that age. Because they don't comprehend the gravity of taking a life (however small), I wouldn't take this event to heart, though now would be an opportune moment for you and DH to have a casual sit-down about the subject with your boys. You can use this event as an opportunity to teach your kids a valuable moral lesson, but don't do it when you're angry or they won't absorb what you're saying- they'll just think you're mad.
Good luck!