my boys brought me a lizard on a stick. - Page 2

[mommabear207]

i definitely think a way needs to be found to impress upon them the sanctity of life and compassion. of course just how to do this is the question. maybe helping at an animal shelter or helping an injured animal in someway? i would also probably have asked them ho wthey wanted to eat it. i think that when an animal is killed everything that can be used should be and its still important to have killed that animal compassionately as possible. i'm wondering if your dh's take on this was that your boys where practicing hunting and thus his jokes of lizard for supper? i think your dh needs to also talk to them as his remarks and attitude probably came off to the kids as approval.

[Mama2Rio]

i think this is a chance for your children to learn about life and death and how fragile life is. just a question, but is your family vegaterians? you should teach them where meat comes from and maybe tell them the next thing they kill they have to eat, a way to teach them that life isn't for wasting. this might be a little extreem, but you might see my point.

[MovingMomma]

Originally Posted by alllyssa

I'm sure if your DH is a decent man, he's got more experience on what normal boy behavior includes. In my experience, completely normal boys do things like this occasionally and there is a balance between freaking out and thinking that they are future serial killers and completely blowing it off.

And lizards aren't really animals, IMO, they are more like really big bugs. It's not like they killed the neighbor's cat.

: Whew. Perfectly normal little boy behavior, and dad reaction. After all they are made out of snips of snails and puppy dog tails. You could challenge them to catch it instead of kill it. They might find that more rewarding and then you could encourage a bloodless release.

[nerdymom]

Originally Posted by sisteeesmama

Ew, I do not like lizards, but I think I might have teared up thinking about how painful a death that must have been for the little thing.

I think I would have told them that if they killed it on purpose they would have to eat it because we don't kill animals for fun, we kill them for food, so how would you like it prepared?

I like that idea!

Originally Posted by MovingMomma

: Whew. Perfectly normal little boy behavior, and dad reaction. After all they are made out of snips of snails and puppy dog tails. You could challenge them to catch it instead of kill it. They might find that more rewarding and then you could encourage a bloodless release.

right on! and quite frankly, this way pretty normal behavior for me and my little sisters, except that we tried to catch not kill. We had a pet graveyard and took it pretty seriously when something inadvertantly died.

[dziwozony]

"And lizards aren't really animals, IMO, they are more like really big bugs. It's not like they killed the neighbor's cat."

what?? umm...YES they are animals...what an odd way to dismiss a whole category of living creatures. obviously we all look at the environment differently.

while i would be horrified as well, i would take it as an opportunity to discuss life & death. it was most likely a bit of a science experiment, just curiosity without fully realizing the pain they were causing.

i would talk with them about how all living creatures feel pain & we need to respect their right to live. keep an eye on future interactions with animals to see if they got the message.

my ds is 2yo & he & dh were outside having this long conversation about the bees that were crawling around on the grass (something sugary had spilled). so then dh gets up & walks away, my son looks at the bees for a moment, then starts stomping them! yikes! but he just wanted to see what would happen. we explained that we are nice to bees so then they are nice to us.

[mamaof3tobe]

Thank you

Thank you to everyone who answered my post. Your ideas and thoughts brought me many ideas, comfort, and relief. My boys still don't seem to have any clue about why their actions were so horrible for me. I tried to explain to them, and gave up.

For my oldest son, I ended up using some advice from here mixed with some help from my brother. Jaden has been studying warriors and is somewhat obsessed. He has been begging his uncle to make him a spear so that he can pretend to be a "real" indian warrior. When I told my brother what had happened with the lizard, he responded that we should have the lizard for dinner. Since a warrior would not kill an animal unless the intent was to eat it. This made Jaden cringe, and he hid the lizard from me. Then my brother called and explained warrior behavoir. I don't think Jaden will hurt an animal again.

My plan for Jack (4 yr old) is to take him to the local reptile store. We know the owners, and I feel that Jack will understand better if he hears from someone else.

As for my husband, he still doesn't feel like it was any big deal. He has a "boys will be boys" attitude. So, we concluded that he will just keep his mouth shut on this one, and not condone or punish for the kids attitudes. I guess I get to handle this one on my own.:

[Ligeia]

Originally Posted by alllyssa

I'm sure if your DH is a decent man, he's got more experience on what normal boy behavior includes. In my experience, completely normal boys do things like this occasionally and there is a balance between freaking out and thinking that they are future serial killers and completely blowing it off.

And lizards aren't really animals, IMO, they are more like really big bugs. It's not like they killed the neighbor's cat.

Um what makes a lizard less of an animal than a cat?? (or a bug for that matter, really). Totally off topic, but I breed lizards for a living. They have very separate and interesting personalities, they have social behaviors and expectations, depression over a lost cagemate, excitement over food or something else they really like, they have needs, tastes for certain foods, likes, dislikes, desires, companionship just like my mammal pets. I was disturbed the other day when I found my dd killing one of the inevitably escaped crickets. She told me it had fallen asleep. I sat down and had a discussion with her about how serious a thing death is and how it is forever. She just did not realize what she had done or how easy it was to hurt something so small. I think a lot of kids just need to have that discussion/experience before it sinks in for some reason.

[ChinaDoll]

Quote:
Originally Posted by sisteeesmama View Post
Ew, I do not like lizards, but I think I might have teared up thinking about how painful a death that must have been for the little thing.

I think I would have told them that if they killed it on purpose they would have to eat it because we don't kill animals for fun, we kill them for food, so how would you like it prepared?
I like that idea!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingMomma View Post
Whew. Perfectly normal little boy behavior, and dad reaction. After all they are made out of snips of snails and puppy dog tails. You could challenge them to catch it instead of kill it. They might find that more rewarding and then you could encourage a bloodless release.
right on! and quite frankly, this way pretty normal behavior for me and my little sisters, except that we tried to catch not kill. We had a pet graveyard and took it pretty seriously when something inadvertantly died.

I agree with all of that; of course, I was another little girl who once dissected a frog in the backyard ...

[Marsupialmom]

I do think this (esspecially if it is just once) is a normal but undesireable childhood behavior for some children. They do other gross things like disecting dead squirls, cracking birds eggs found in yard and examining baby birds.

It is time that you talk to them. I agree with if you kill it you eat it.

[SophieAnn]

Maybe this sounds kinda silly, but I would have a mini-funeral for the lizard.

Dig a hole and bury the lizard, and show remorse by example. I.e. you (mom & dad) could say a few simple words like "I'm sorry Mr. Lizard for your pain."

Going to the pet store or museum to learn about lizards is an excellent idea.

[jlovesl]

Originally Posted by alllyssa

I'm sure if your DH is a decent man, he's got more experience on what normal boy behavior includes. In my experience, completely normal boys do things like this occasionally and there is a balance between freaking out and thinking that they are future serial killers and completely blowing it off.

And lizards aren't really animals, IMO, they are more like really big bugs. It's not like they killed the neighbor's cat.

I agree with you on this. Most little boys at sometime in their life kill some kind of bug , gopher, lizard, fish. It happens and I'm sure you can avoid it happening again just by telling them it's not nice to kill animals for fun. My husband would have laughed it off as well. I would have been grossed out but I doubt it would have bothered me. But don't become an activist for all critters because if one of your kids comes home from school with lice(which they do) how do you tell them it's ok to kill those bugs but not others?????

[Ceinwen]

Originally Posted by SophieAnn

Maybe this sounds kinda silly, but I would have a mini-funeral for the lizard.

Dig a hole and bury the lizard, and show remorse by example. I.e. you (mom & dad) could say a few simple words like "I'm sorry Mr. Lizard for your pain."

Going to the pet store or museum to learn about lizards is an excellent idea.

Even as an omnivore, I like this idea. I wouldn't brow beat them with guilt, but I would gently get across that it was simply a cruel thing to do.

Totally also agree with the 'catching' aspect of it; my six year old dd is forever catching and dragging home neighbourhood cats - we just had to talk about how to gently handle an animal...

[mommytolittlelilly]

Originally Posted by Ligeia

Um what makes a lizard less of an animal than a cat?? (or a bug for that matter, really). Totally off topic, but I breed lizards for a living. They have very separate and interesting personalities, they have social behaviors and expectations, depression over a lost cagemate, excitement over food or something else they really like, they have needs, tastes for certain foods, likes, dislikes, desires, companionship just like my mammal pets. I was disturbed the other day when I found my dd killing one of the inevitably escaped crickets. She told me it had fallen asleep. I sat down and had a discussion with her about how serious a thing death is and how it is forever. She just did not realize what she had done or how easy it was to hurt something so small. I think a lot of kids just need to have that discussion/experience before it sinks in for some reason.

I totally agree. I had some pet turtles as a kid and I definitely noticed that they have distinct personalities.

Honestly, what bothers me more about this is the dad's reaction to it. It is normal for kids to do this sort of stuff, but as parents, we need to step in and explain in an age-appropriate manner that wildlife should be respected. You don't have to be heavy-handed about it, but geez, that doesn't mean you laugh and say boys will be boys. That's really not the kind of socialization I'd want for a boy or a girl. I'd try and get the dad on the same page about reinforcing the idea of respecting nature, compassion for other living things, etc., because otherwise your kids are getting the message that it's funny/no big deal to hurt certain animals.

[Breeder]

Originally Posted by mommytolittlelilly

I totally agree. I had some pet turtles as a kid and I definitely noticed that they have distinct personalities.

Honestly, what bothers me more about this is the dad's reaction to it. It is normal for kids to do this sort of stuff, but as parents, we need to step in and explain in an age-appropriate manner that wildlife should be respected. You don't have to be heavy-handed about it, but geez, that doesn't mean you laugh and say boys will be boys. That's really not the kind of socialization I'd want for a boy or a girl. I'd try and get the dad on the same page about reinforcing the idea of respecting nature, compassion for other living things, etc., because otherwise your kids are getting the message that it's funny/no big deal to hurt certain animals.

Yep to all of this.

I really REALLY hate this "boys will be boys" line that keeps coming up in one form or another. As if killing things is a male behavior. How would we feel if someone said, "Girls will be girls" to being vapid.

Just because someone is born with a penis doesn't mean they get a set of behaviors to go with it.

Ok, OT over.

[sbrinton]

I agree with a previous poster who said that you have a teachable moment here. It's a great opportunity to share your values with your kids.

I personally don't think it's that big of a deal, but it's worth digging into their hearts and minds to figure out what is going on. Were they genuinely being cruel, or were they just curious?

[esokitty]

Originally Posted by Breeder

Yep to all of this.

I really REALLY hate this "boys will be boys" line that keeps coming up in one form or another. As if killing things is a male behavior. How would we feel if someone said, "Girls will be girls" to being vapid.

Just because someone is born with a penis doesn't mean they get a set of behaviors to go with it.

Ok, OT over.

Thank you. I was wondering when someone would mention this!!!!!

I think the funeral for the lizard is a good idea, as well as a discussion of you kill it you eat it (if you're omnivores)

[dziwozony]

"But don't become an activist for all critters because if one of your kids comes home from school with lice(which they do) how do you tell them it's ok to kill those bugs but not others?????"

i don't believe that if you choose to kill lice, that means you can't support love & respect for other animals. in our family, we do kill mosquitos, wasps, & rats...bugs & animals that invade our bodies/home...we consider it self defense (obviously our lives are not at stake, but our health & living conditions are). we do not seek out animals & bugs to kill, but if they are taking the first move towards us, we respond.

sorry, a bit off topic but had to respond...

[homeschoolingmama]

You guys are going to think I am awful for this but...
I did kill the neighbours cat! I vaguely remember it. The only feeling I remember is curiosity. I drowned it in my kiddie pool.
I assure you it bothers me to this day. I am the type who runs around rescuing fish flies from spider webs. I literally run outside rescuing them. So your sons are probably fine. Sometimes kids do things and don't realize the extent of it.

Originally Posted by alllyssa

I'm sure if your DH is a decent man, he's got more experience on what normal boy behavior includes. In my experience, completely normal boys do things like this occasionally and there is a balance between freaking out and thinking that they are future serial killers and completely blowing it off.

And lizards aren't really animals, IMO, they are more like really big bugs. It's not like they killed the neighbor's cat.

[mommytolittlelilly]

Originally Posted by homeschoolingmama

You guys are going to think I am awful for this but...
I did kill the neighbours cat! I vaguely remember it. The only feeling I remember is curiosity. I drowned it in my kiddie pool.
I assure you it bothers me to this day. I am the type who runs around rescuing fish flies from spider webs. I literally run outside rescuing them. So your sons are probably fine. Sometimes kids do things and don't realize the extent of it.

Aww, you're not awful. If it makes you feel any better, I don't think it's any worse than accidentally killing a lizard.

One time I put my grandpa's dog in a big cardboard box and started rolling it around and around. I thought it was funny to hear his little nails on the cardboard. AHHH! Fortunately, I didn't give the poor dog a heart attack as my grandpa found us and intervened. I really liked the dog and didn't think it would harm him, but in retrospect I'm so glad my grandpa put a stop to it!