DH wants to get DS a GI JOE!!!

[LukesMum]

hELP! i AM ARMED WITH THE "NO bARBIE" INFO BUT WAS SHOCKED WHEN dh BROUGHT UP gi jOE THIS MORNING. I started spouting of my "why nots" but wanted to hear what you mamas think and your reasons why. He thinks I'm ridiculous. I have to say my DH is a bit of a macho guy but supports me mostly in my views. Would love some feedback! Thanks!

[mama-t]

I'm in such conflict over all this weapon/guns/guys/tanks/ect...

On one hand, *I* played with army men, shot/killed/battled for days...dh certainly did the same. We seemed to have turned out ok....;-)

But lately we've been hearing ds ask for tanks, because one of his little friends dad's is a medic in the army, and wants to play army, ect. yuck.

We are VERY anti-gun at our house, ds is 4 and I'm sure he plays army/cowboy/whatnot at other friends houses', one little friend in particular, I was hoping that would help get it out of his system, then just yesterday he wanted to play cowboy at home and have a gun.
I looked at dh, got the a-okay and said, 'well...what do cowboys do with guns'?
ds: shoot bad guys and bad animals
(we tell ds our reasons for not liking guns and what they do is because they are only made to hurt people and animals)
meell, you can shoot bad animals, but how about not bad guys?
ds: ok
me: what makes an animal 'bad'?
ds: they try to hurt my horse
me and dh agree that would be scary and cowboys did use guns to protect themselves.
So the play begins, ds shoots me, a wild cat, and I die; ds got very upset! He did not like the fact that I was not going to play his play of 'I shot you a little, now you chase me', or whatever plan he had. He wanted me to get up, and I just said no, you shot me in the heart, I died.
So he changes his mind and says it was a bubble gum gun (bubble gum?), he gives wild animals gum with his gun, so I chew my gum, we let it go and the play ended soon there after.

This is my long winded way of saying, what would your paramiters(sp) be with a gi joe? And how old is ds? What are dh's reasons for letting him have one?
We see that ds wants to be exploring power/strength/control and have been directing him towards knights, dragons, kings, ect. I made him a cape and crown for Christmas, and got a fabulous Jim Wiess tape telling tales of King Arthur and the knights of the round table.

I would actually vote against the doll, unless ds is asking for it, and then consider what is he looking for with that toy. If dh is looking to share his boyhood toy memories can he play with hot wheels or some such thing other than a physical violence image?

[mama-t]

I don't know where that big ol' smiley face came from....tried to edit it out ...

[guerrillamama]

mama-t, i like how you handled that situation. i like how your ds handled it too. bubble gum gun, very smooth.

anyway, i was just having this converaattion w/ a friend, re: whether i will let ds have guns/soldiers/etc toys when the time comes. i am not anti-gun per se (i believe it is possible to use them responsibly), but i am very very very anti-military. my friend's parents were also very very very anti-military, and anti-gun, and had very strict no-gun rules, not even squirt guns. she and her brother weren't allowed to watch the gi joe tv show either, which was the big event at daycare everyday, so while the rest of the kids were watching the show, they had to sit in the kitchen by themselves listening to "pow!" "boom!" "kablooey!" in the distance.

you would think the moral of the story is that they both grew up angry and bitter and rebellious and one of them became a navy seal and the other is serving time for a drive by shooting.

but actually, they are both very very very anti-military and anti-gun. so i guess there is no moral to the story. i just thought it was such a pathetic image, these 2 kids sitting by themselves in the kitchen, ostracized from everybody else. i don't want to do that to my kid. and i know the forbidden fruit syndrome can bite you in the ass. like my mom tried so hard to keep me and my sister away from barbies, and by the time we grew out of them we probably had 20 each. she didn't stand a chance.

for myself (ds is only 5 weeks old so i am truly talking out my ass here) i think i will allow guns (w/ lots of discussions about what guns are for and how they work and what damage they can do) but strongly discourage, if not outright forbid, military toys like gi joe.

i guess my argument would go something like this: gi joe's job is to kill people, not because they're going to hurt his horse or some arguably good reason like that, but because someone else (uncle sam) told him to. it's never ever cool to kill people. it's especially not cool to kill people who haven't done anything against you. and it's especially not cool to kill people just cuz somebody else said so! in fact, that's just not smart.

i don't know, it needs some refining, but like i said, ds is only 5 weeks.

i might, depending on his age when/if it comes up, also use my dad's story as an example. my dad was a kid during the korean war, and just knowing that (even w/o the gory details, which i didn't hear till i was a teenager) made a huge impression on me as a kid. i might mention to ds, you know your grandpa lived through a war. he saw a lot of people get killed. there wasn't anything fun about it.

i don't know. i think about this kind of stuff a lot.

[levar]

Personally I am pro-Barbie, and just bought our son a Teenage Mutant Ninga Turtle doll for his 4th bday.

But, *I* am ok with that kind of thing. If you aren't, or your hubby isn't, dont. Mixed messages are worse I think. Can you and hubby have a one-on-one talk about what you both do and dont like and why? Set some rules/guidelines and live by them for a while, agreeing to review later, etc.

[Meiri]

One of the things I learned when reading The Wonder of Boys and also observed in DS, is that boys play out the roles they see their heroes in.

The guns are just the tools of the trade if said heroes are police or soldiers. It's not about killing, it's about protecting. When DS pretended as a preschooler to be a firefighter, it wasn't about fires, it was about being a hero.

Even at 13 I can see that dynamic still going on with DS, plus paintball is exciting.

When they get older is when they start to understand the rest of the consequences of what guns can be abused for. You can continue to teach peace while allowing them the freedom to explore that hero aspect of being male I think.

[phathui5]

Susan,

Tym got Patrick army guys and trucks for Christmas, but let me toss the little plastic guns that came with them. Maybe you guys can compromise? I'm sure your "manly" dh can understand that you both need to be comfortable with what he's playing with.

[sparrow]

Originally posted by Meiri

When they get older is when they start to understand the rest of the consequences of what guns can be abused for. You can continue to teach peace while allowing them the freedom to explore that hero aspect of being male I think.

well said!! i think i might need to read that book

this has been an issue at our house- more about gunplay than action figures (ive manged to avoid those so far) but your perspective spoke to me. thanks.

[guerrillamama]

You can continue to teach peace while allowing them the freedom to explore that hero aspect of being male I think.

whats so male about heroism?

[sagewinna]

Just so you know, there is a GI Joe that is a rescue/ medical guy. No weapons.

[Meiri]

whats so male about heroism?

I did not limit heroism to males. A boy would be exploring the hero aspect of being male while a girl would be exploring the hero aspect of being female. I think heroism can be a male thing while also being a female thing.

Both, I have no doubt, also explore the nurturing aspects of their respective genders.

DS used to nurse some of his stuffed buddies, just like DD sometimes does now. DD has her horses or other buddies rescuing each other. She doesn't just have the males doing the rescuing either.

"Celebrate the Whole Boy" as a poster (boys in their football uniforms listening to a buddy playing his violin) I'd like to have someday says, means allowing them to explore those "macho" aspects too.

[Momof1000`]

That big smiley face is there because you typed : w without the space between the : and the w. In order to edit it out you will have to put a space after the :

Anyway...GI Joe and Barbie are just dolls, toys. Boys that play with dolls will not grow up to be "sissy's" as will they not grow up to be agressive if they play with toy guns. When I was a child I played with toy guns and I even pretended to smoke. As an adult I wouldn't touch a gun with a 10 foot pole and I have never smoked. This is just kid stuff...just playing. As mentioned in a previous post it's about protecting not killing!