Autoimmune conditions, GAPS diet and deficiencies - long!

[nathansmum]

OK, so the title is kind of random, but it's been a long meandering journey and I would like some insight from those that have more knowledge than me or things that I may just plain missed.

Pat (Wuwei) directed me over here and I have spent some time this evening making my way through some of the links she kindly put up for me on a thread that we took OT lol. I have decided to post here in the meantime while I continue to read.

Back history - DS has just turned 6. When he was 2.5 he was diagnosed with coeliacs disease via blood tests. We opted out of the biopsy, and the GF diet took away all the symptoms he'd been presenting. So we carried on like that for 3yrs and in that time I radically changed the way we ate (not that we were that bad, but I pretty much started cooking a lot more from scratch, and switched to GF pasta, bread and cereals and any other gluten sources were exchanged for an acceptable food). We don't vax, he'd never had ab's or panadol or any medicines aside from homeopathic.

Then in December just gone (he was 5.5), completely out of the blue we ended up in hospital with DS being diagnosed with Nephrotic Syndrome (basically his kidney's weren't functioning correctly and he was peeing protein and swelled up an extra 5kg in water weight). NS is another autoimmune disease and often triggered by an allergy or reaction of sorts. the most likely in DS's case was a bunch of mosquito bites (it was summer here). So anyway, this was an emergency situation with no time to research or do anything and he was put on high-dose corticosteroids (50mg/day) and went into remission within a few days and stayed at the high dose for for 6wks and we've been slowly tapering off them since then (now down to alternate days of 12.5mg and then down to 5mg 1st June and then off at the end of June) - so another 6wks. The problem being that up to 80% of kids with this condition will relapse (partly due to other things retriggering the illness (colds, conjunctivitis - ordinary things) and causing them to relapse, but also if the child becomes steroid-dependent due to being on high doses that have essentially halted the function of his adrenal gland).

So, upon returning home from the hospital after 24hrs I researched like mad and due to this I put DS on the GAPS diet to work on healing his gut (which I suspect probably should have happened after the coealics diagnosis). I didn't go back to the broth-only phase, but just put him on the allowed-foods list and kept things like that for about 8wks. In this time I saw dramatic changes to his bowel motions that even the GF diet did not achieve. I started giving him probiotic powder (had to start slowly as it can be dangerous for those who are immunosuppressed and he had been on prophylactic AB's which I made the decision to stop after about a week), Vit C (SA), CLO (his Vit D was really low due to the kidney condition), sunshine every day etc. He also has a kids multivitamin a day and has a fair amount of probiotic yoghurt a day - as much as he wants and probably about a 250-500mls worth with LSA sprinkled on top.

Now we are at the point of finally weaning off and I'm feeling a bit scared about whether or not he will be steroid dependent and jump on the roller coaster all over again (I hate the thought of what the steroids are doing to his body). I have him on a homeopathic remedy for kidney function and he has been really well (had one cold that he flew through in 3 days).

After reading the links that Pat gave me I have a few concerns or questions...

Could the GAPS diet be causing vit/mineral deficiencies? I did put together a spreadsheet a few months back to see if I could capture any gaps and did find that he was probably not getting enough of the B's. I have now put him on a kids supplement of Fish Oil which has B1, B2 and B12 as well as Iodine.

He had blood tests that showed that most levels were fine but was a bit low in Vit E and Zinc - I am unsure how to get those levels up because I'm weary of supplementing on the zinc particularly since it's an immune booster and him having autoimmune diseases - couldn't that trigger off another autoimmune?

One of Pat's other links talked about beets/red pee. well interestingly we've been eating borscht reasonably frequently without noticing red pee. Then about a month ago both ds and I noticed our pee was red but at the time I couldn't reliably track whether it was an issue or not.

In the past month I have reintroduced potatoes - but instead of being a full on side dish, they are just a small portion most days and maybe once a week I use a GF pizza base (this is the only grains we are now having).

I have been noticing DS squinting, blinking a lot, grimacing and generally tensing up his face in the past few weeks. I'm not too sure what this is about but don't think it is a sight issue.

So, any thoughts, advice or warnings about the path we are on? I must admit, the links that Pat gave me had combinations of words I was totally unfamiliar with talking about detox pathways etc, but will try and get my head into it and figure out it's relevance to us right now.

Thanks so much.

[mtn.mama]

I'm glad you found us... I hope we can help you find some answers.

This stood out to me.

Originally Posted by nathansmum

I have been noticing DS squinting, blinking a lot, grimacing and generally tensing up his face in the past few weeks. I'm not too sure what this is about but don't think it is a sight issue.

It sounds like he has acquired a tic. Check out http://healthy-family.org. Caryn has some good information and support on there. It should point you in a good direction for this part of problem.

Good luck!

Lisa

[nathansmum]

Thanks! Tics had crossed my mind last week actually, but I filed that into another basket... She focuses on gluten and corn. The pizza bases I have reintroduced just once a week about a month ago have corn in them (no other corn in the diet aside from that) - I wonder if that could be triggering it? He used to eat loads of corn products prior to the GAPS diet though since it's a standard GF replacement item, so I wonder if an intolerance can develop after not being in the diet for a while (or could have been part of the problem with his bowel motions not correcting fully after going GF). Anyway, worth removing for a wee while and see if I see any improvement. Unfortunately I can't get any standard allergy tests run while he is on steroids as they will mask any allergy response. Thanks again.

[nathansmum]

OK, have a read a few more of the link and just wanting to dump my thoughts as I go...

First - stomach acid. So we fail that one. I am now confused about how low stomach acid fits in with being in an akaline state? I have some saliva pH sticks and a few months back we all did the test and came out 7.2-7.4 on the sticks. I know that being in an alkaline state is preferable and that foods which are acidic can be alkaline forming (like lemon juice) but now confused how these fit together and what to do? Due to DS's kidney condition, I am needing to 3-way research - what will fix the "issue", does it contradict with the corticosteroids and does it affect the kidneys.

Currently we are (well, were till the recent introductions) doing the GAPS diet, but not doing the fermented veges.

I have read the probiotic threads and thinking that tipping the powder onto the kids tongues is most likely useless? The only other probiotic they're getting is via the Probiotic Yoghurt.

OK, off to tackle the detox pathways threads.

[FireWithin]

I have two comments, and sorry I wish I could add more.

I would consider adding more vitamin D, especially if you believe his kidney issues require more/causing low D. There has been a brief discussion here about the vitamin d in clo is largely being used to work with vitamin A, that much of it can't do its own job. This is a similar issue with cal/mag supplements, where the mag is being used to help the calcium.
We use carlson's liquid vitamin d caps that I've just begun to squeeze onto our skin (supposedly much greater absorption that way.)

I would strongly suggest getting a more complete B complex, or make sure you are getting ample Bs in your diet. I didn't and am having some supplementing issues. I wonder if I was more balanced if it would be less of an issue.
I highly recommend Thorne or Perque products because many of their Bs have the appropriate form of folic acid in them. This might not be an issue for your son, but I would do it to help cover all of my bases.

Good luck

[tanyalynn]

I'll throw in my 2 cents, but I don't have any specific knowledge of your son's autoimmune issue. My only reading on autoimmune issues is a bit of celiac stuff (just in passing, we're gluten intolerant, not celiac) and autoimmune thyroid problems. For thyroid stuff, people are often (usually?) low in selenium, that lack causes the immune system to attack inappropriately. Selenium is really, really important in immune function, I'd look into it (where are you located? New Zealand soil is particularly low in selenium, Hilary Butler says everyone there needs to supplement) I'll link a thread of hers...

http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...d.php?t=406983

I don't know if Australia has the same issue. I know the US has lots of regional ups and downs, so it may be very specific to your immediate location, if this is an issue for you.

Zinc--needed to make stomach acid. My impression is that the lack of nutrients is a big part in our immune systems misfiring. I got my seasonal allergies due to nutrient deficiencies. Obviously not on the same scale as an autoimmune condition, but carefully balancing and adding nutrients may improve the situation.

re: nutrients, consider folate, chicken liver has lots if the green leafy stuff isn't tolerated (I'm looking into green smoothies and/or green juicing for this--some folks do better w/o the fiber, I think we will be fine, may depend on the health of the gut).

re: vitamin D, supplementing my son with just HVCLO and Texas sunshine isn't enough, I don't think. I just bought a stand-alone D supp, I am hoping to get both kids into a good range this year. I think consuming extra A uses up D (we want the A to be used, that's why we're consuming it, but it needs other nutrients in order to be absorbed/utilized--my best understanding, I'm not an expert).

New food intolerances can pop up, or become visible (maybe they were there all along, just very very low-level) when our detoxificaton gets worse. My son's soy intolerance, which existed last year, but was so subtle I missed it, became obvious this spring when he'd been really behind in his detoxification for several months. Made improvements in his detoxification and the reaction to soy is much, much less. : I know we shouldn't eat any soy, it's the convenience foods I sometimes buy when I get behind on cooking. :

urine pH of 7.2-7.4 may be getting a bit too alkaline? I _think_ my HCP wanted me in the 6-7 range, I've seen, when my adrenals are really, really tired (and I'm not consuming enough salt, I need a teaspoon in a cup of water each morning to feel right, plus salting foods to taste) that I go more alkaline, up to 8-ish.

I think things like tics can essentially be a form of stim. My son's had various incidents that at least to me look all related--stuttering, spinning, shaking, walking in circles, it all seems like various compensations for his body being overloaded, and the balance can either be like my son, where it's mostly due to the toxic load being too high, or it can be a particular nutrient being too low (everybody's got some toxicity, or even just processing the endogenous chemicals our bodies make, that takes up detoxification bandwidth too). So I'd focus, for that, on detox pathways. You may find it easier (I did) to match up your health issues, combined with your son, and maybe combined with your husband, to see clearest what's going on. My health is intricately intertwined with my kids' health and it's made a world of difference that I can see us as 3 individual expressions of the same underlying issues.

[mtn.mama]

Originally Posted by nathansmum

Thanks! Tics had crossed my mind last week actually, but I filed that into another basket... She focuses on gluten and corn. The pizza bases I have reintroduced just once a week about a month ago have corn in them (no other corn in the diet aside from that) - I wonder if that could be triggering it? He used to eat loads of corn products prior to the GAPS diet though since it's a standard GF replacement item, so I wonder if an intolerance can develop after not being in the diet for a while (or could have been part of the problem with his bowel motions not correcting fully after going GF). Anyway, worth removing for a wee while and see if I see any improvement. Unfortunately I can't get any standard allergy tests run while he is on steroids as they will mask any allergy response. Thanks again.

FWIW, when we pulled all corn (including derivatives) it did seem to make our sensitivity more apparent- if not actually escalating it.

I think Caryn also feels strongly about magnesium uptake (and B6) for tics.

[nathansmum]

Originally Posted by Mammo2Sammo

I have two comments, and sorry I wish I could add more.

I'm grateful for whatever people can offer! Thanks.

I would consider adding more vitamin D, especially if you believe his kidney issues require more/causing low D. There has been a brief discussion here about the vitamin d in clo is largely being used to work with vitamin A, that much of it can't do its own job. This is a similar issue with cal/mag supplements, where the mag is being used to help the calcium.
We use carlson's liquid vitamin d caps that I've just begun to squeeze onto our skin (supposedly much greater absorption that way.)

I think I forgot to mention, I did manage to get his Vit D up into normal ranges since we were in summer, so that was with daily CLO and sun exposure. I am just going to ensure we maintain it now through winter. I also had his Vit A levels checked coz I was a bit concerned with the amounts he was getting via CLO as well as diet, but that too was mid-range (and he's a pretty active kid so burns it up well).

I would strongly suggest getting a more complete B complex, or make sure you are getting ample Bs in your diet. I didn't and am having some supplementing issues. I wonder if I was more balanced if it would be less of an issue.

Thanks. Yeah, I did wonder about finding something with a broader range. The available kids B complex's in this country (NZ) are fairly limited and the only other one I saw that looked ok had it with yeast and I was wanting to avoid yeast for now. But will go back to my research on that.

Selenium is really, really important in immune function, I'd look into it (where are you located? New Zealand soil is particularly low in selenium, Hilary Butler says everyone there needs to supplement) I'll link a thread of hers...

Thanks, yes I know Hilary (well, via online). You have reminded me though to get back into buying brazil nuts which I was doing for a while and then got out of the habit.

Zinc--needed to make stomach acid.

I read about this last night - my ds is low in zinc, but at the same time eats a lot of zinc food - so from what I was reading it seems that you need it to produce stomach acid, but low stomach acid also means it's not absorbed. So it seems I need to get more histamine foods into his diet to help produce stomach acid, is that right??

New food intolerances can pop up, or become visible (maybe they were there all along, just very very low-level) when our detoxificaton gets worse. My son's soy intolerance, which existed last year, but was so subtle I missed it, became obvious this spring when he'd been really behind in his detoxification for several months. Made improvements in his detoxification and the reaction to soy is much, much less.

Could you explain the use of the word detoxification in this context please? This is what is new to me.

urine pH of 7.2-7.4 may be getting a bit too alkaline?

That is our saliva pH. Do you know if they are comparible?

I _think_ my HCP wanted me in the 6-7 range, I've seen, when my adrenals are really, really tired (and I'm not consuming enough salt, I need a teaspoon in a cup of water each morning to feel right, plus salting foods to taste) that I go more alkaline, up to 8-ish.

Thanks for reminder about salt. I have never been one to add salt to my cooking and since I am fully cooking by scratch I forget that we are now getting zero added salt (aside from what occurs naturally in foods). I think I will make a list in the kitchen to remind myself of these new things I need to ensure I'm doing daily. Interestingly, *my* pH was closer to 8 and during this stressful time of researching for my son and dealing with his illness I figured I had adrenal fatigue due to my extreme lack of energy, all day tiredness and (a bit better now as I read a thread somewhere on here and I started taking B complex, Vit E, mag/calc - but have fallen off the wagon there too) so I would benefit in more added salt? Have I got that the right way around?

I think things like tics[...]where it's mostly due to the toxic load being too high, or it can be a particular nutrient being too low (everybody's got some toxicity, or even just processing the endogenous chemicals our bodies make, that takes up detoxification bandwidth too). So I'd focus, for that, on detox pathways.

Yeah, that makes sense since it's just appeared (was there once a few months back but went away). Last time I gave him an epsom salt bath both for extra mag and detox - how often is ok to do a ES bath if this does help?

You may find it easier (I did) to match up your health issues, combined with your son, and maybe combined with your husband, to see clearest what's going on.

So I just work through what all our issues are and see if there are any common causes? Like for example we all suffer from those little hard waxy bumps on our skin (me thighs, dh arms/thighs, both kids on cheeks and arms).

I think Caryn also feels strongly about magnesium uptake (and B6) for tics.

Cool, so giving him the epsom salt soak for 30mins last time this happened could quite likely have halted things. I will try it again and keep on top of it.

Thanks for your advice so far.

[Theloose]

It looks to me like you might be looking at open calcium ion channels. Calcium flowing through those channels turns processes on in the body, like keratin production (keratosis pilaris is likely what those bumps are). High ammonia can cause stimming and open channels. High ammonia can be the result of high protein in the diet (it's a normal breakdown product) or having the wrong gut bacteria.

When we're talking about detoxification in here, we're talking about the chemical flags your body uses to mark substances it doesn't want - so environmental toxins, food additives, naturally occurring food chemicals, even the normal stuff like old hormones. Somehow your body needs to dispose of all these things, and that process can go wrong with nutrient deficiencies, especially when you're deficient in B vitamins or if your calcium channels are open. Did Pat link you to this video?

[nathansmum]

I think Pat did link me to that one, but I hadn't yet watched it - have just done so. Will go and read your thread in your siggie shortly too. Do you have the link to her other video (did she make one) which has more information about the 3 flags down the left hand side or another discussion here that will talk more about how I go about implementing some changes. Thanks, sorry, this is completely new and I'm still struggling with understanding the word usages in what i'm reading and listened to in the video.

So if he has open calcium ion channels, are you able to link me to somewhere that explains this and what it means?

I would say he is definitely on a high protein diet due to the GAPs diet and it has been one of my concerns - but now I'm torn about whether or when to reintroduce the GF grains/legumes (I tried lentils and navy beans which are GAPS allowed foods but he reacted to them but should try again to try and cut back on our meat intake which has doubled with this diet) which will take some of the load off.

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by nathansmum

thanks, yes i know hilary (well, via online). You have reminded me though to get back into buying brazil nuts which i was doing for a while and then got out of the habit.

oh good! I don't know if there are any tests around for selenium, in myself i don't really know how to figure out if i'm doing good.

i read about this last night - my ds is low in zinc, but at the same time eats a lot of zinc food - so from what i was reading it seems that you need it to produce stomach acid, but low stomach acid also means it's not absorbed. So it seems i need to get more histamine foods into his diet to help produce stomach acid, is that right??

i'm willing to supplement and know that some of the supp is wasted as part of the process of getting us back to good levels for various things--some is absorbed, even though not all, but it helps in the rebuilding process. Fermented foods with meals should help digestion/absorption, i don't know if digestive enzymes help with absorption of nutrients, seems like they might.

When you say eats a lot of zinc-containg foods, i'm not aware of a whole lot that are really high in zinc except oysters. Various meats contain zinc, but when i added up how many milligrams we're actually consuming, it wasn't impressive. I don't have a long-term solution for this, and since we're dealing with long-standing deficiencies, i supplement.

could you explain the use of the word detoxification in this context please? This is what is new to me.

i mean the chemical processes in the liver that the body uses to get rid of external chemicals/materials like heavy metals, plus endogenous chemicals like estrogen and histamine and all that stuff.

I really like this site for discussing the topic in more detail, it explains things much better than i can. I also pulled out some of the phase 2 detoxification discussion from andy cutler's amalgam illness book and included it here.

My kids are a real mix between dh and myself. My health has been impacted by the mercury that was in my amalgam fillings, so i was not detoxifying well for a couple decades. My son's body seems to work like mine, but my daughter's works like dh's but has a huge backlog of toxins to deal with. So looking at the various pathways, and how my body and dh's body deal with various drugs has helped highlight the differences, and see our strengths and weaknesses.

that is our saliva ph. Do you know if they are comparible?

i have no idea. Urine ph is only useful (as far as i know) first thing in the morning. I don't know how to do saliva ph, i'm sure it says stuff about us, i just don't know what.

i _think_ my hcp wanted me in the 6-7 range, i've seen, when my adrenals are really, really tired (and i'm not consuming enough salt, i need a teaspoon in a cup of water each morning to feel right, plus salting foods to taste) that i go more alkaline, up to 8-ish.

Thanks for reminder about salt. I have never been one to add salt to my cooking and since i am fully cooking by scratch i forget that we are now getting zero added salt (aside from what occurs naturally in foods). I think i will make a list in the kitchen to remind myself of these new things i need to ensure i'm doing daily. Interestingly, *my* ph was closer to 8 and during this stressful time of researching for my son and dealing with his illness i figured i had adrenal fatigue due to my extreme lack of energy, all day tiredness and (a bit better now as i read a thread somewhere on here and i started taking b complex, vit e, mag/calc - but have fallen off the wagon there too) so i would benefit in more added salt? Have i got that the right way around?

depends how worn down your adrenals are, earlier on people may want to avoid salt and consume more potassium, but after you get fairly worn down, some chemicals reverse and the opposite is the case. The reason for the salt is that your body isn't holding onto it appropriately, so a smaller proportion of what you consume is actually available for your body to use. Let me see if i can find the good links (i'm stealing them from whome)....

http://www.drkaslow.com/html/adrenal_insufficiency.html
http://www.advance-health.com/hypoadrenal.html

and a really technical one that is beyond me in places...
http://www.tuberose.com/adrenal_glands.html

i've also noticed that it's easy to forget to salt things, for me i grew up in a household where we didn't like salt (earlier stage of adrenal issues) and that habit is still hard to overcome. You may need extra b5, my dh is taking 1000mg per day, whome is as well.

yeah, that makes sense since it's just appeared (was there once a few months back but went away). Last time i gave him an epsom salt bath both for extra mag and detox - how often is ok to do a es bath if this does help?

my healthcare provider says daily is fine/good.

so i just work through what all our issues are and see if there are any common causes? Like for example we all suffer from those little hard waxy bumps on our skin (me thighs, dh arms/thighs, both kids on cheeks and arms).

yes, it helps in figuring stuff out. And stuff like seasonal/environmental allergies, or the lack thereof, are meaningful, even though it seems relatively low-level.

cool, so giving him the epsom salt soak for 30mins last time this happened could quite likely have halted things. I will try it again and keep on top of it.

Thanks for your advice so far.

:d

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by nathansmum

I think Pat did link me to that one, but I hadn't yet watched it - have just done so. Will go and read your thread in your siggie shortly too. Do you have the link to her other video (did she make one) which has more information about the 3 flags down the left hand side or another discussion here that will talk more about how I go about implementing some changes. Thanks, sorry, this is completely new and I'm still struggling with understanding the word usages in what i'm reading and listened to in the video.

So if he has open calcium ion channels, are you able to link me to somewhere that explains this and what it means?

I would say he is definitely on a high protein diet due to the GAPs diet and it has been one of my concerns - but now I'm torn about whether or when to reintroduce the GF grains/legumes (I tried lentils and navy beans which are GAPS allowed foods but he reacted to them but should try again to try and cut back on our meat intake which has doubled with this diet) which will take some of the load off.

Honestly, if you're on information overload, I wouldn't bother with the thread in my sig. It's long and I've been learning a lot along the way. Just ask questions here, and we can point you to the relevant threads.

The other videos should be easily found near the one at heal-thyself.

If you can do really fatty meat, that should help a lot with the protein. I wish I knew what to do about the calcium channels. I think a big part is figuring out why they're open in the first place. The relevant threads for calcium are here and here.

And it sounds like pat sent you a ton of links. My most active project is www.detoxpuzzle.com, so I'll point you there and feel free to ask for more info on anything. It's a work in progress and progress happens faster when I know it's actively helping someone

[Theloose]

oh right, saliva pH - isn't that largely affected by what you're eating? Or are you testing far away from meals?

I'm not sure how to interpret pH stuff like that. I *do* think that salt cravings plus alkaline urine can point to low aldosterone. But beyond that, I have no idea.

[nathansmum]

OK, will read all the new links tomorrow.

I have spent tonight reassessing my spreadsheet of vit/mins that the kids eat.

Although I don't place a lot on RDA's we seem to be doing ok on most. With all the B's - they seem to be hitting most of them only because they take a kids multivitamin (well, ds takes 2) and with the fish oil which has the few added B's, he is getting the same amounts of B's as if I were to give him a kids B complex. So I'm happy with that for now.

Zinc is not adequate in our diet - even though we eat all the foods - nope, not enough. The only reason I'm loathe to supplement is because of the immune boosting function of zinc and ds's autoimmune tendencies...so unsure what to do. I could easily supplement by switching the fish oil/B's I give as I found another brand today that includes zinc. Actually I'm thinking I might grab a bottle of the new one and give them a split dose from each (the dosage is for 2 capsules daily - so if I give one of each it won't be too much extra zinc, but boost his daily intake to 12mg (the multi's have a small amount, and he eats some in foods).

with the saliva pH test it is done at least 20mins after eating food.

This afternoon we all had an epsom salt bath for 30mins.

I bought some organic brazil nuts this afternoon for the selenium.

Right, so tomorrow's work will be looking at the detox pathways again.

[ASusan]

bumping to read later. I have autoimmune issues and want to think about this more later...

[nathansmum]

Making my way there...

and a really technical one that is beyond me in places...
http://www.tuberose.com/adrenal_glands.html

Loving this site...only about 1/3 of the way through the article, but I reckon it's worth a read for ANYONE. Makes you wonder if most of the general population don't have some level of adrenal fatigue really. Strange that I only discovered it a few months back in my research for my son, but it's me that has that showing up mostly lol.

[tanyalynn]

One thing I was thinking about (I've been having weird dreams this week, all related to detoxification and nutrients, I need to get past this...) is your concern with zinc. I'm not really sure, but obviously you'd need to check more and especially for your son's specific condition, if zinc is really different from vitamin D or selenium.

At least for selenium and hypothyroidism, the difference between Hashimoto's (hypo with antibodies) and plain hypothyroidism seems to be selenium status. I don't know if part of this is how each individual reacts to being low in selenium, or if there's one threshold beyond which everyone starts making antibodies, or a mix between the two (a variety of thresholds, but at some point everyone will make antibodies).

Maybe there's data that says that normalizing zinc status in people with autoimmune conditions relates to more frequent or intense problems, and I'm not saying just disregard that if it exists. But I'm wondering if the rules are somewhat different once the immune system is responding inappropriately like that--zinc not being an immune booster, for example, so much as an immune normalizer.

This is mostly speculation, and only helpful so far as giving a different perspective from which to research more. I know it's not directly useful.

http://www.eufic.org/page/en/page/LS...lenium-status/

I went looking, apparently there are ways to measure blood selenium status, and that changes with supplementation. There are references in there, in case you want to read the original text (which we can only hope is available online)--I thought it was interesting that low selenium was associated with "altered immune function" vs "depressed immune function." I am finding, especially for zinc, given that it's now clear that I've been zinc deficient for decades, that it's very slow to normalize in the kids. I'm giving them a ton and a half of zinc (25mg per day, divided, and the kids are 35 and 45 pounds) and both kids still seem low/marginal. Selenium may work similarly for you.

I looked up selenium in one of Andy Cutler's books, he says red blood cell levels of selenium are believed to represent body burden, while whole blood, plasma, serum and urine measurements are less accurate.

Best of luck to you, sorting through all this! And take care of yourself as well.

[nathansmum]

thanks for raising that about the zinc. I will certainly do some more thorough research into whether zinc does in fact cause issues in regards to auto-immune conditions as well as how it responds with kidney function.

And thanks, yes, I've restarted taking my own supplements for my adrenal fatigue and cutting back on the number of cups of tea I'm drinking a day.

[nathansmum]

Right! Just to update here, since it's as good a place as any...have done a little research into the zinc deficiency and nephrotic syndrome and it appears that it is a known result of the NS (found many references). I found this study that supplemented group with 10mg/day for 12mths and a group had the placebo. Seems that chances of relapse were reduced by about 30% and had longer spaces between relapses. Gonna get the other fish oil with the zinc now which will bring him up to 9mg/day plus what he gets through diet. Thanks Tanya for getting me past that mental block!