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Where faith and science meet - Page 2

post #21 of 24
Wow, that is intriguing. Thanks for responding!
It's hard for me to wrap my brain around, my parents aren't religious and the only people in my family who are christian believe in the literal interpretation of the creation story. Do you also believe that the Jesus miracles and the resurection are parables or metaphoric? ( I am seriously just trying to understand. )

I also don't believe that we are separated from God, at all. The divine is within each and every one of us. The only "right or wrong" are actions that cause harm to others. ( Thats just MHO. :-) )
post #22 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountaingirl79 View Post
Do you also believe that the Jesus miracles and the resurection are parables or metaphoric? ( I am seriously just trying to understand. )
I'm not too sure this question was for me (or just put out there or whatever) but I will answer in that I do believe that Christ performed miracles but that that doesn't mean that one day we will not be able to explain their process. Sure then we will have more of an understanding of them and to us they will cease to be miracles but IMO it's not that they were "miracles" that was important but rather that he did them and why. I just don't believe that everything done by God/Christ will always be unexplainable nor that when we can see the process that means there is no divine presence there at all.

Clear as mud? I know my views are different than others though so I'm really only speaking for myself here.

Quote:
I also don't believe that we are separated from God, at all. The divine is within each and every one of us.
I do believe this but in a different sense. I believe that we are all spirit children of God and therefore have Him with us on that level (like we carry our own parents and our children us). We are children of the divine and therefore divine ourselves.
post #23 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountaingirl79 View Post
Wow, that is intriguing. Thanks for responding!
It's hard for me to wrap my brain around, my parents aren't religious and the only people in my family who are christian believe in the literal interpretation of the creation story. Do you also believe that the Jesus miracles and the resurection are parables or metaphoric? ( I am seriously just trying to understand. )

I also don't believe that we are separated from God, at all. The divine is within each and every one of us. The only "right or wrong" are actions that cause harm to others. ( Thats just MHO. :-) )
No, I don't think the stories about Jesus are meant to be metaphorical, though there are people who do.

In the case of Genesis, there are some suggestive points in the text itself that give indications that the story is meant to be more than just history, or something other than just history. For example, the story is at one point told twice, from two different points of view, with different details. Both versions are very instructive and useful though.

OTOH, there is little question that the gospels and acts are meant to be historical narratives, though like in any narrative of a life written down, the writer must make decisions about what to include, where to begin, and so on. Some reasons for thinking this are the way the texts are constructed and presented (a philologist could explain why, but I'm not sure I could, though they feel very different when you read them), and also because we have other records written by those who had first hand knowledge of the apostles, and it's clear they intended what they wrote as history. Miracles are an interesting, and large, topic, but essentially I think that a miracle is something that may be unnatural for us, but it isn't for God.

Christians don't exactly think we are separate from God in the sense that we are not lodged in an intimate way in God's being - have you ever read the Epic of Gilgamesh? That's a good example of what we mean by being separate. Gilgamesh was an almost perfect specimen of humanity, strong, smart, passionate, daring. But, he was miserable, because he could imagine the life of the God's, perfect and unending, while he himself was finite and mortal. He did all he could to gain immortality, and failed. That is kind of what we mean - there is a gap between what we can know, or the possibilities we can imagine (the perfection of the divine) and the actual life we find ourselves living. How is it that we can imagine such a thing if it doesn't somehow belong to our nature? Mice, as Robert Burns tells us, do not worry about the future or eternity. Why can we?

From a moral standpoint, the gap is evident in another way - why is it that we can know what the right thing to do is, but find ourselves doing the opposite, even when we really WANT to do the right thing? Animals don't do this - they do what their instincts tell them, and in the case of competing instincts, they go with the stronger. But if we are by nature creatures who think about right and wrong, which seems to be the case, then that is a natural ability. Why doesn't it behave like other natural abilities, so that we always do what our nature tells us to?

Of course Christians also believe that gap has been filled, through God's action toward us - which is to say, it is proper that we should concieve of eternity, because we are meant to be eternal creatures. That is why hope is such an important virtue, because we are supposed to hope for what we can imagine, rather than despair, with Gilgamesh, about what we can see.
post #24 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluegoat View Post
Of course Christians also believe that gap has been filled, through God's action toward us - which is to say, it is proper that we should concieve of eternity, because we are meant to be eternal creatures.
This is how I see it now, too. As a Christian fundamentalist I thought the gap was only filled for those who believed in Jesus -- but now that I'm a Christian Universalist I believe He filled the gap for all mankind, believing and unbelieving. Emmanuel means "God with us" -- and I believe that's the reality we are living in today.

It's funny, I used to believe the whole fundamentalist Christian line about how the world was just getting worse and worse, more and more sinful.

Then lately I took a good honest look at history -- and realized our modern society is way more caring, accepting of those who are different, and concerned about justice for all, then people ever were before. Things aren't perfect by a long shot -- but mankind is developing real empathy, which I see as a sign that we're getting closer to the heart of God.
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