Christian fear

[Kutie.Pie]

I have been confronted at various times in my life with issues such as speaking out about what I believe. For example, I was told in a speech class by one of my teachers that if I were to say that abortion is "killing babies" that I would not place in the finals or win. This was for a Christian speech group, and I had assumed that many of our basic principals would be similar if not the same, even though many of us believed different things doctrinally.

Now, I'm not one to go sit on the street corner and shout at people that they're wrong for choosing one lifestyle or another, but I've never been daunted by telling people my honest opinion should a subject come up where we didn't agree. I won't get into a shouting match about it, but I will give an honest opinion/answer if someone were to state their opinion to me or ask me about something.

How do you approach someone of different views or religion that you think they're wrong (without saying it so blatantly or trying to attack them)?

Should we simply stand by and assume silence or at least be able to state a difference of opinion?

I've been contemplating the right way to say things to people or how to discuss sensitive subjects. Has anyone had similar instances and how did you react to them?

I understand the Christ did things in a loving way and I wish I were more like him, but neither did he stand down. Take for instance the adulterous woman (John 8), he told them to cast the first stone, who was without sin. And he forgave the woman, not condemning her. We can commit such ugly sins and still be forgiven, and yet we (I) find it harder to forgive others.

However, take the story of Jesus going into the temple (Matthew 21:12-13) and getting upset at them in the temple (sorry for my lax terminology) and turning over the tables.

How to be loving and yet, stand for what is right. There are many aspects to God besides love and I think we (I) sometimes forget that. After all, He is the same God who told the Israelites to go into Canaan and kill many people. And yet, still the same loving God.

What are your opinions? Should anyone feel the need, you can PM me if you would like to debate it further, than here on the discussion boards.

[mammal_mama]

Kutie.Pie --

One thing that helps me in being able to respectfully discuss differences of opinion with others, is that I no longer believe that others are "doomed" if they don't move over to my Christian camp. When I believed that God was going to cast into Hell any and all who died without accepting Jesus as Savior (or at least those who'd had "opportunity"), it was very hard for me to relax and listen, REALLY listen, to what other people were saying --

I mean, sure, I'd listen so as to learn what might give me a footlhold for planting the seeds of the gospel in their hearts, but back when I believed non-Christians were headed straight for hell, it was impossible for me to relax, to still my racing argument-preparations, and just get to know people where they were at and accept that they were FINE whether they ever saw things like me or not.

At the end of this post, I'm going to give you the link to a site that has helped me to embark on a journey of getting to know God as Love, real and all-encompassing Love ... and, yes, I still believe you'll be "okay" if you go to your grave still believing in a punitive Father who casts all non-believers into hell ...

I still believe you'll get to continue your journey into all Love and all Truth (as will all of us, no matter what our beliefs or lack thereof) -- I just think you won't enjoy your earthly journey as much as I am now enjoying mine as a Christian Universalist. In a sense, I think becoming a Univeralist is the real way to move beyond "Christian fear."

I am now finally able to get into deep discussions with people of a variety of different views -- ironically the only people who seem to get offended with me now are Christians who think I am lying when I call myself a Christian, LOL. Oh, here's the link --

http://www.tentmaker.org/

[mammal_mama]

P.S. I realize I'm kind of assuming that you believe in a punitive God Who is going to cast non-believers into hell. Please forgive me and correct me if I am wrong.

[PlayaMama]

i've not much to add as i'm not a christian, but i will said that being approached in the manner mammal_mama is speaking of is the surest way to lose any discussion with me.

i think that there is a difference between standing up for your beliefs (stating what you feel and believe) and trying to change someone else's mind.

i think your answer will vary depending on your goal.

[genifer]

listen, REALLY listen, to what other people were saying --

I couldnt get any further without quoting that and basically owning it! Lol. forgive me mamal mama... Because this is just the impression I feel the Holy Spirit has given me when talking to people who arent believers... in what we believe in. I also stopped believing I had to believe everyone who didnt believe in Jesus was condemned to hell. Now, its a subject Im praying for understanding about... and I dont doubt it'll come. There's a lot of talk among nonbelievers regarding the issue 'what did the first christians believe?' And I suppose I have decided to let God strip me back to nothin. It was awesome how it happened for me actually, but probably boring to anyone else, so I wont go into it unless you want me to. Suffice to say that I got to a point that I may have believed more then God had revealed to me himself. I knew Christ, that he died for my sins, that He was Lord of lords and King of kings... he is MY King, my Saviour, and anymore then that I wasnt certain about. Since then a lot's been revealed, and some of it lines up with some of the teaching I learned in the church, some of it doesnt, some of it Im still not sure about, but that doesnt matter. To me its about learning to Love like Christ did and from there learning how to live by the Spirit. Which is SUCH an important thing. So many times I think we christians arent simply allowing ourselves to be led by the Spirit, bu tby things that are carnal, fleshly, human.... not Spirit led at all (Been pouring over Romans 8 for months now)...

Also, the point that we arent to judge. I start out with that. And then the fact that I do not know everything. I know Christ, I DO know His love for me and His love for everyone... so I try to remember to speak to everyone with that same love. Also, when there is a mutual respect between me and whoever Im speaking to.... I think its a good thing. We are both then free to speak our opinions... sometimes they learn something, mostly tho Im the one learning something. This isnt to say that I agree with everything everybody else believes, because I dont... I choose not to judge them tho, bc its just not my place... and I genuinely believe that.

[genifer]

At the end of the day Kutie.Pie, I think its something you have to be willing to learn. I do believe scripture. Full Stop. I believe there's a lot about it that I dont understand, and when I say scripture I mean the Bible. I do believe it is the inspired Word, or that it was inspired by God... So, when Im talking to someone who doesnt belieive like I do... I just simply love talking about Jesus and my faith, if you know me, you know that... Believers and nonbelievers who I know, if it comes up I talk about it freely. If its something they arent comfortable talking about I totally respect that... I hate to insult one's intellegence, ability and freedom to think for themselves. I dont think we are meant to interfere with that, but thats how a lot of sermons are preached in church, Ive found. I genuinely believe its not my job, personally, to convert anyone. I dont think Im a universalist tho... I would like to understand what they believe a bit better and why they believe it. But, who is ... not saved, or not going to recieve salvation... thats simply not for me to judge. I make it clear that I believe that ALL humans are tainted by sin... are sinners in need of a Saviour. If at that point I lose them in the conversation... ok... simple, I dont shove it down their throat, but you know, its clear thats what I believe.

[Bluegoat]

Originally Posted by Kutie.Pie

I have been confronted at various times in my life with issues such as speaking out about what I believe. For example, I was told in a speech class by one of my teachers that if I were to say that abortion is "killing babies" that I would not place in the finals or win. This was for a Christian speech group, and I had assumed that many of our basic principals would be similar if not the same, even though many of us believed different things doctrinally.

Now, I'm not one to go sit on the street corner and shout at people that they're wrong for choosing one lifestyle or another, but I've never been daunted by telling people my honest opinion should a subject come up where we didn't agree. I won't get into a shouting match about it, but I will give an honest opinion/answer if someone were to state their opinion to me or ask me about something.

How do you approach someone of different views or religion that you think they're wrong (without saying it so blatantly or trying to attack them)?

Should we simply stand by and assume silence or at least be able to state a difference of opinion?

I've been contemplating the right way to say things to people or how to discuss sensitive subjects. Has anyone had similar instances and how did you react to them?

I understand the Christ did things in a loving way and I wish I were more like him, but neither did he stand down. Take for instance the adulterous woman (John 8), he told them to cast the first stone, who was without sin. And he forgave the woman, not condemning her. We can commit such ugly sins and still be forgiven, and yet we (I) find it harder to forgive others.

However, take the story of Jesus going into the temple (Matthew 21:12-13) and getting upset at them in the temple (sorry for my lax terminology) and turning over the tables.

How to be loving and yet, stand for what is right. There are many aspects to God besides love and I think we (I) sometimes forget that. After all, He is the same God who told the Israelites to go into Canaan and kill many people. And yet, still the same loving God.

What are your opinions? Should anyone feel the need, you can PM me if you would like to debate it further, than here on the discussion boards.

I like to think of it this way - I think that God is interested in and loves everyone, on theor own terms, so I try to behave the same way. I know that I don't know everything, and it may even be the case that I am totally on the wrong track. I know from experience that wisdom and truth can come from the most unexpected places, and I should not weigh people down with my expectations of them - good or bad.

All that being said, I don't have a problem with arguing passionately for what I think is the Truth, especially if it involves the well being of other people or society. I think though, that it is always wrong to manipulate words or use untruthful tactics in such discussions, and that is what happens if you enter them with a goal other than revealing truth - say, you want to convert, or win, or whatever. Since I know I don't possess the fullness of the truth, any discussion I have could potentially go the other way - I might be wrong. In a debate, saying abortion is killing babies could be inappropriate because it could be an attempt to use emotion against reason, or because it is assuming the substance of the argument. Although I think it is also possible to make such discussions too abstract, a formal debate is an attempt/opportunity to reason out an issue.

I guess this is partly a personality thing - I know people who think this means that I lack faith in my beliefs, or that I won't be able to act on them, but since I pretty much live my life that way, I guess I am used to it.



It always seems to me that even in the heat of a very intense discussion, there is no reason for unkindness, though that can be hard to live up to, especially on the internet where you don't see the other people.

[HisBeautifulWife]

You can stand up for your beliefs without expecting to change anyone's mind. Once you get that concept down, it becomes easier.

And also I believe there is a time and place for everything. (Ecclesiastes 3:1) So I don't feel the need to always say something even though sometimes I want to.

I don't always have to say- this is wrong, that is wrong, that is wrong; and it doesn't mean I am afraid, it means that sometimes it's just not the time.

When it comes down to it, I find comfort in knowing that God didn't say I had to change peoples minds; as long as they've heard the truth it's their choice on what to do with it. I've done my part so when the time comes they'll be none of that "but I didn't know..."

And on a random note, the abortion issue is a touchy subject with me and other Christians because I don't believe in the "you are a baby killer, look at all these evil pictures" approach. There are better and more Christ-like ways to make your point.

I hope that you'll be able to find peace with this issue.

[Peppermint]

I can't say I am good about it here online , but- IRL, I try very hard to take the time to pray asking the Holy Spirit to guide my words (or lack of them) whenever I think I may be in a situation where my own pride/fear/anything might get in the way. Most often He tells me to "shut up and LOVE them."

[newcastlemama]

Originally Posted by Peppermint

I Most often He tells me to "shut up and LOVE them."

Yes. In my interactions I will have to ask God to help me know what to do and I actually got this exact reponse yesterday from Him! Show this person mercy, patience, gentleness, understanding! Let them remember your LOVE first and foremost! LISTEN to them Jen!

I also agree with the pp who said there is a time for everything. We are called to speak the truth in love and that looks different in every interaction....which again shows me my deperate dependence on the Holy Spirit to guide me and my mouth.

Blessings,
Jen

[kcstar]

Originally Posted by HisBeautifulWife

You can stand up for your beliefs without expecting to change anyone's mind. Once you get that concept down, it becomes easier.

This.

Sometimes I'll say "That's interesting."

Sometimes it helps me to understand where they are coming from with a given position, so I may follow up with something like, "How did you come to believe that?", "Why do you say that?" You cannot go wrong with "Tell me more," unless you are certain it will only infuriate you.
But if you do this, it has to be an honest question, and you have to LISTEN to the answer. Then, when you've heard them out, don't respond immediately. Pause for a moment to find what your heart says is the right next step.

When you've really heard what they have to say, you can respond with, "I disagree" or "I believe differently." From there, if you choose or if they are curious to know more, you can explain a little bit of how you see the world, in a non-threatening way.

Another phrase I use, when I don't want to argue, is "I hear you." Maybe even, "I hear you, and I disagree with that position." See what happens there. It may be a conversation-stopper, or it could be an opening to an honest exploration of why each person believes what they believe.

Even a simple, "I disagree" can sometime be enough to give a pause. If they want to know more, they'll ask.