not convinced

[mommabear207]

so i did research, statistics etc and presented it to dh- he's not convinced. the more i looked the more i think most of the vaxs= not needed and then there's stuff like mercury and crappy safety testing. still dh thinks vaxs=good ie theres a reason why vaxs were made, medical professionals know best/ he has a high regard for scientists, its unlikely they'll have an adverse side effect and unlikely they would get the disease but better to vax and make it more unlikely and so on. i even showed him ians voice (which made me cry). he still really wants the kids to be fully vaxed. currently we're at an impasse. i don't really know what to do.

[ammiga]

Rather than approaching vaxes as a whole, what if you go disease by disease?

Start with, why are you afraid our newborn will get Hep B? Have him research the disease and see what he thinks.

Do the same with measles. Have him watch this episode of the Brady Bunch. It really makes people feel silly to be afraid of the measles. Mumps were also the subject of many cartoons and comics.

Go one disease at a time, and have him research what it is about each disease he is afraid of. He needs to look into both sides of the issue, from sources you provide, as well as ones he is comfortable referencing. If you are planning to ebf, that should eliminate his concern for several diseases (like hib, rotavirus, etc.).

If he presents you with information or reasons to vax that you aren't sure about, come to this board... most people can point you in the direction for some more research on almost any subject.

Also, if he has a high regard for scientists, have look at some very highly regarded doctors and scientists who seriously question vaxing. Dr. Tenpenny has some very informative movies you can watch online. The online movie "Vaccination: The Hidden Truth" is also presented by doctors. I found "Vaccine Nation" to be very well put together as well.

[Marnica]

I just ordered and watched Dr. Andrew Moulden's DVD series To;lerance Lost.

I highly suggest you get and watch them. If he wathces this and still wnats to vaccinate then I would be VERY suprised. This evidence is extremely compelling and he is a DR and a researcher.

http://brainguardmd.com/

[mommabear207]

i will look into those movies. i did try to go through disease by disease
ex. hep b - usually spread through bodily fluid in the ways dc won't be exposed to till he's an adult and maybe even not then- dh reponse he wanted them protected for the future JIC. when i pointed out vax only last so long anyways- well JIC/ added likelyhood of not getting hep b
ex polio considered vanquished from western hempishere and europe and dc won't be going to africa etc. dh- JIC someone brings it here & brings up all those photos you see of kids with leg braces (here i pointed out a lot of that was due to the live vax) still don't want my kid having polio
ex mumps dh- have you seen pics of people with mumps?! (puffing out checks) wat if dc got it and lost his hearing....
and so on
basically everything is a horrble disease they made a vaccine for "for a reason" and while chances are small dc will get it they're even smaller if hes vaxed
also he considers the small chance of getting these diseases due to the vaxs and what if everyone starts thinking like me- we'll have outbreaks!!!
also (i haven't read it yet) he got the recent issue of discover which has an article on vaccines and autism (he mentioned it i don't know if its only about it or what) and how the connection is bogus- explained by scientist who have no basis etc.
i tried to point out some things are really mild these days ie i had scarlet fever- not a biggie like it use to be. we both had chicken pox and i'm pretty certain a bad case of rotavirus due to containmated water then hes like but what about those few cases that are severe?! he's just so set on it. but so am i on not vaxing. i really hope these movies can help.
oh and bringing up industry affected by $ and anti-vax websites makes him go *conspiracy theory*

[notjustmamie]

How about letting him know that NOT vaccinating is really the default position*, so he needs to provide the appropriate research to change your mind?

*ETA: meaning vaccinations are the intervention, so they need to be justified, rather than the other way around.

[kiara7]

Show him the CDC pink book that clearly states that the odds of having a vax reaction are higher than the odds of having a vad.

He needs to reevaluate his attitude because JIC attitude doesn't work in life. If we all sat around thinking what if, jic - we would never go anywhere and do anything. "Let's turn the tv on - No, what if it catches fire, JIC let's not." "Let's go buy some food - No, what if we get into a wreck, JIC let's not." Kwim?

[Fyrestorm]

Originally Posted by Marnica

I just ordered and watched Dr. Andrew Moulden's DVD series To;lerance Lost.

I highly suggest you get and watch them. If he wathces this and still wnats to vaccinate then I would be VERY suprised. This evidence is extremely compelling and he is a DR and a researcher.

http://brainguardmd.com/

Would you let me borrow them for an appropriate rental fee?

[mommabear207]

Originally Posted by kiara7

Show him the CDC pink book that clearly states that the odds of having a vax reaction are higher than the odds of having a vad.

He needs to reevaluate his attitude because JIC attitude doesn't work in life. If we all sat around thinking what if, jic - we would never go anywhere and do anything. "Let's turn the tv on - No, what if it catches fire, JIC let's not." "Let's go buy some food - No, what if we get into a wreck, JIC let's not." Kwim?

funny you mean the JIC scenarios -DH said just about those same examplse to me but for vaxing.

[luminesce]

Dr. Jay's DVD is a decent middle-of-the-line view that might help.

[Ophelia]

Dr. Jay Gordon's DVD is the only thing that opened DH's mind enough to realize that DS was not going to automatically die if he did not get all the shots.
Until that point (DS had already had most shots by that time, unfortunately), whenever I tried to talk to DH about it it's like it went in one ear and out the other.

[ammiga]

I totally agree that you can't live life on "just in case". But if dh insists, what about saying not to vax because you don't want your dc to die from SIDS, leukemia, or another childhood cancer, JIC this stuff is true (and is MUCH more serious than measles, mumps, etc. in an otherwise healthy child).

[poppan]

This is the "argument" that helped convince my DH. It helped him (and me) reconcile with the view that government/science/medicine/public health dept would not be pushing this on us if it were not safe and good.

From a public health perspective they do regard it as safe and good. Not for everyone; it is recognized that some people react and die or have permanent injuries. But, on the whole, they believe that fewer people will die/have permanent injuries from the vaccines than would from the diseases if we did not vaccinate. Now I know many people on this forum would argue otherwise, myself included, but let's just start here. I'm just saying this is what most people in those professions believe.

Now that's from an overall, public health perspective. But as a parent, I think I need to put my child(ren)'s safety and health first, over "social responsibility" (and again, I recognize that the social responsibility part is in doubt -- as it depends on how much of the low disease incidence we can attribute to vaccines and how much injury they really cause, both of which are subjects of current debate, but for the sake of this conversation I will accept that assumption because otherwise there are just too many rabbit holes the discussion could get lost in). Fact is, the statistics you found and showed your husband show that any individual child in the US is likely better off unvax'd than vax'd, as they are much more likely to be permanently injured by the vaccine than they are to get and be permanently injured by the disease. That may not be true if no one got vax'd anymore -- so from a public health perspective they believe they need to keep pushing vaxes.

Bottom line is, what's good for the whole isn't necessarily good for the individual, and vice versa. Don't know if this will work on your DH, but it was an important point for mine and helped open him to all my facts and figures. Before that, he really had a mental wall around everything I was showing him.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm

Would you let me borrow them for an appropriate rental fee?

When Im done you can borrow free of charge...Ill even hand deliver them!!

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by mommabear207

i will look into those movies. i did try to go through disease by disease
ex. hep b - usually spread through bodily fluid in the ways dc won't be exposed to till he's an adult and maybe even not then- dh reponse he wanted them protected for the future JIC. when i pointed out vax only last so long anyways- well JIC/ added likelyhood of not getting hep b
ex polio considered vanquished from western hempishere and europe and dc won't be going to africa etc. dh- JIC someone brings it here & brings up all those photos you see of kids with leg braces (here i pointed out a lot of that was due to the live vax) still don't want my kid having polio
ex mumps dh- have you seen pics of people with mumps?! (puffing out checks) wat if dc got it and lost his hearing....
and so on
basically everything is a horrble disease they made a vaccine for "for a reason" and while chances are small dc will get it they're even smaller if hes vaxed
also he considers the small chance of getting these diseases due to the vaxs and what if everyone starts thinking like me- we'll have outbreaks!!!
also (i haven't read it yet) he got the recent issue of discover which has an article on vaccines and autism (he mentioned it i don't know if its only about it or what) and how the connection is bogus- explained by scientist who have no basis etc.
i tried to point out some things are really mild these days ie i had scarlet fever- not a biggie like it use to be. we both had chicken pox and i'm pretty certain a bad case of rotavirus due to containmated water then hes like but what about those few cases that are severe?! he's just so set on it. but so am i on not vaxing. i really hope these movies can help.
oh and bringing up industry affected by $ and anti-vax websites makes him go *conspiracy theory*

How about lets not get the Hep B vax JIC because I don't want my child to end up like Ian.

Conspiracy theories are interesting....Some of them turn out to be true.

[poppan]

Originally Posted by mommabear207

i will look into those movies. i did try to go through disease by disease
ex. hep b - usually spread through bodily fluid in the ways dc won't be exposed to till he's an adult and maybe even not then- dh reponse he wanted them protected for the future JIC. when i pointed out vax only last so long anyways- well JIC/ added likelyhood of not getting hep b
ex polio considered vanquished from western hempishere and europe and dc won't be going to africa etc. dh- JIC someone brings it here & brings up all those photos you see of kids with leg braces (here i pointed out a lot of that was due to the live vax) still don't want my kid having polio
ex mumps dh- have you seen pics of people with mumps?! (puffing out checks) wat if dc got it and lost his hearing....
and so on
basically everything is a horrble disease they made a vaccine for "for a reason" and while chances are small dc will get it they're even smaller if hes vaxed
also he considers the small chance of getting these diseases due to the vaxs and what if everyone starts thinking like me- we'll have outbreaks!!!
also (i haven't read it yet) he got the recent issue of discover which has an article on vaccines and autism (he mentioned it i don't know if its only about it or what) and how the connection is bogus- explained by scientist who have no basis etc.
i tried to point out some things are really mild these days ie i had scarlet fever- not a biggie like it use to be. we both had chicken pox and i'm pretty certain a bad case of rotavirus due to containmated water then hes like but what about those few cases that are severe?! he's just so set on it. but so am i on not vaxing. i really hope these movies can help.
oh and bringing up industry affected by $ and anti-vax websites makes him go *conspiracy theory*

Wow I just read this second post from the OP -- didn't see it the first go round -- and I am floored, just floored that your DH wants to risk your newborn's life on its very first day in the world and give him/her a vaccine for a disease that he or she will not be at risk for for at least 12-13 years (Hep B). Even for "JIC" you can give that vaccine later when they are 10 or so, well before they have any sexual contact. I am floored, floored, floored. I don't think he can possibly be truly listening to any of the research you have presented him with -- he's just hearing "conspiracy-nut-theory" "crazy-people-research" "blah-blah-blah" when you tell him something.

[Jadzia]

Originally Posted by mommabear207

also (i haven't read it yet) he got the recent issue of discover which has an article on vaccines and autism (he mentioned it i don't know if its only about it or what) and how the connection is bogus- explained by scientist who have no basis etc.

You should show him this Huffington Post blog written by David Kirby who was interviewed for the Discover article. He provided the author of the article with *numerous* references to scientists who are supportive of the autism link and the author did not follow up or contact any of them. He only wanted to write a biased one-sided article that claimed that the science was conclusive and he ignored all the research that is being done on the other side.

Discover Magazine Ignores Much of Vaccine-Autism Story

[Fyrestorm]

Originally Posted by Marnica

When Im done you can borrow free of charge...Ill even hand deliver them!!

Thanks!:

[mommabear207]

thanks everyone.

i showed him the post. he's pretty much like who's this guy and have you looked into the huffington post.. discover is a respected source...

i told him it didn't seem like he was listening to what i've presented- he said he thought the same as me.

his big argument now isn't directly related but is basically dc are more likely to be hurt/killed in a car accident than either vax scenario yet we still get in the car.....necessary evil.
i also fear that if he does given in and then lets say dc gets measles dh will freak out and never forgive me -even if dc doesn't have any complications from it and if he did..whoa lets not go there.

i'm gonna try to get him to watch hidden truth as its not as about autism as vaccine nation. i thought they were done well but i can tell those parts will discredit the rest for him esp. now w/ this article.

[Gitti]

Please have him watch Vaccine Nation 1-10.