Vitamin K?

[CrunchyKnitter]

I hope I am in the right spot for this, I'm new!

Anyway, I have a pretty good idea about things I want done or not done at the birth, but I am torn on what to do about the Vitamin K injection. (Most of the other "standard" procedures we'll be skipping, even though I am delivering in a hospital, though through a MW practice).

Anyway, I have heard that you only need to do it if you are circumcising (we are not), so I thought 'okay, no need for that'.

Then I heard that if there is any trauma to the head or something, you'd want it done and it can be very important. Well, there's no way to really KNOW if that happened (internally), right?

So what's the best way to go about this issue? Is the Vitamin K something that's no big deal if you do it (we are delaying most procedures or vaccines) or is there a big reason to avoid it? I'm not sure where to turn on this issue and would love some feedback. Thank you!

[SalmonBayDoula]

For my clients who ask and are on the fence, I tell them if there is any evidence of bruising on the head or face (baby asynclitic, hung up on the pubic bone, born OP,) vacuum, forceps, or cesarean birth (planned or unplanned) it might be a good idea to consider the vit. k, as a precaution.

Sharon

[CrunchyKnitter]

Thank you, that is kind of what I figured. Is that something we can make the call on AFTER the birth, after we find out if there was any trauma. Obviously Ihope to avoid a C-section and any other interventions (forceps, etc), but what if there is just plain old "bumping" or trauma that we don't know about? That's my big concern. I would hate to NOT do it, but then not know that he did have some little issue that could have been helped by it.

I guess, are there any downsides to doing it "just in case". I don't really know much about what it is exactly I think in terms of side effects and if it's at all harmful.

[lil_stinkyfeet]

Subbing

[fruitfulmomma]

I guess, are there any downsides to doing it "just in case". I don't really know much about what it is exactly I think in terms of side effects and if it's at all harmful.

Increased risk of childhood leukemia is the downside.

Here is an article with more info...
http://babyreference.com/VitaminKinjectORnot.htm

We have always refused Vitamin K. I believe there is a reason for the fact that they don't make this until around the 8th day, it is a normative thing, not a defect found in all children. If there were trauma involved in the birth we would consent, with a preference for oral.

[jwoodbri]

SalmonBayDoula-

Why after a c-section? I've read this before but haven't figured it out yet. Do you know?

Thanks!

[caned & able]

Originally Posted by jwoodbri

SalmonBayDoula-

Why after a c-section? I've read this before but haven't figured it out yet. Do you know?

Thanks!

Sometimes babies are pulled on alot during the surgical procedure and/or the surgeon cuts the baby when the incision is made. This happens more than is reported.

[Turquesa]

Originally Posted by SalmonBayDoula

For my clients who ask and are on the fence, I tell them if there is any evidence of bruising on the head or face (baby asynclitic, hung up on the pubic bone, born OP,) vacuum, forceps, or cesarean birth (planned or unplanned) it might be a good idea to consider the vit. k, as a precaution.

Sharon

That's pretty much what went into my birth plan. Like just about any intervention, it has it's time and place. But my beef with hospitals is the assembly-line "care" given to moms and newborns.

[CrunchyKnitter]

Thanks everyone, that helps a lot!
I like the idea of supplementing myself after birth!

[SaraFR]

Quick question (perhaps not quick answer):

Where I am it's a requirement to give Vit. K. If you refuse CPS is called in. Is the oral less harmful than the injection?

[mwherbs]

if you are in New York and give birth in the hospital then no a shot is what you are going to be offered- you can ask for an oral dose--- they may figure out how to make this available or how to give the shot stuff orally
the follow up studies just don't hold up with vitamin K and leukemia connection on the other hand we have had different areas of increase incidence in this country and they are usually associated with tungston mining or processing- and that area of North England where the orginal info came from is also mining and processing area---
even if you have your baby get a shot of K making sure you are eating plenty of vitamin K foods is not a bad idea vitamin k , beyond making clotting and anti-clotting factors has to do with preventing hardening of the arteries and keeps bones healthy/less likely to fracture

[TzippityDoulah]

I wouldn't do the shot unless an issue came up causing trauma. othwerwise I don't worry about it at all. babies are meant to have lower vitamin K levels than adults. it slowly builds up over time. my main concern is that even though we may not understand *why* babies have lower vitamin K when they are born, doesn't mean it needs "fixing", since all babies have it. it's clearly like that for a reason whether we understand it or not.

[mwherbs]

the gradual increase doesn't have to be true- colostrum has a decent amount of vitamin K IF a mother is consuming daily amounts of healthy vitamin K foods- and breast milk vitamin K content is dependent on mom's intake, if mom increases breast milk gets more vitamin K- even the intestinal bacteria depends on dietary intake, vitamin K existing in the food remants to be broken down/consumed by the bacteria and offered up to be absorbed === in countries where moms are mainly vegetarians have a very low incidence of vitamin K bleeds in breastfed infants something like 1 in 40,000 compared to something like 1 in 1000 in New York State-

[SalmonBayDoula]

Originally Posted by jwoodbri

SalmonBayDoula-

Why after a c-section? I've read this before but haven't figured it out yet. Do you know?

Thanks!

I am seeing more and more c/s babes born with a vacuum. also sometimes during an unplanned c/s when mom has been pushing, they also go in vaginally with a hand, to push the baby out of the pelvis, if they are way low and deep, so they can get them out through the incision.

Sharon

[mwherbs]

here are the recorded dietary amounts of vitamin K in women of child bearing age the first was from an evaluation of vitamin K in breastfeeding mothers- mean dietary intake-- 69+/-48 microg/day,the study done here in the US by Greer
--------------
and in a Japanese study-- between 2-13 times as much
The mean total vitamin K intake of all subjects (using data from this study and Japanese food composition tables) was about 230 microg/d in women age 18-29

this makes a difference not only for breastfeeding but also in pregnancy because even though a very small amount crosses the placenta some does- so the US studies show lower levels of vitamin K in cord blood than places were moms get higher daily intake

[Turquesa]

Originally Posted by mwherbs

here are the recorded dietary amounts of vitamin K in women of child bearing age the first was from an evaluation of vitamin K in breastfeeding mothers- mean dietary intake-- 69+/-48 microg/day,the study done here in the US by Greer
--------------
and in a Japanese study-- between 2-13 times as much
The mean total vitamin K intake of all subjects (using data from this study and Japanese food composition tables) was about 230 microg/d in women age 18-29

this makes a difference not only for breastfeeding but also in pregnancy because even though a very small amount crosses the placenta some does- so the US studies show lower levels of vitamin K in cord blood than places were moms get higher daily intake

Thanks for sharing this. You post got me curious, so I found a list of Vit K foods. One more reason to attack those leafy greens. My diet is sufficiently lacking in those. :

It isn't mentioned on this list, but I wonder if the seaweed/iodine intake is helping the Japanese women.

[mwherbs]

seaweed as a vitamin K food as well as fermented soy foods that have vitamin Mk4 or atleast another type might have types through to 7

[lemonapple]

We chose to refuse the Vitamin K along with everything else and got a huge amount of grief from the hospital staff and the pediatrician at the one well-baby visit we actually went to. Be prepared for them to tell you all sorts of WRONG information to scare you into giving your baby the shot. I was actually told straight to me face, "How would you live with yourself if your baby dies because you didn't give him this shot?"

We were also told by the pediatrician at our one well-baby visit that we needed to give Kaius the oral vitamin K even though he was 6 weeks old because baby's don't make enough vitamin K until 12 weeks. After further questioning on our part, the doctor conceded that in actuality, no one has any idea how much vitamin K a baby SHOULD have at any point. At 12 weeks, the vitamin K produced is apparently close enough to the amount that an adult produces for the doctors to think that's normal.

I would totally refuse the vitamin K as long as there is no apparent bruising and as long as the birth wasn't traumatic.

[thefreckledmama]

My youngest was the first we didn't give Vit.k, and she was the only one that didn't develop jaundice. I think certain situations may warrant it being given, but with a normal birth with no bruising or obvious trauma, it's not needed. That being said, I would opt for the oral over the injected in every situation.

[lil_stinkyfeet]

I talked to my doctor and she said that she had no problem with me refusing the Vitamin K as well as the eye ointment. :

Thanks for this thread and all the great info