Vacation Bible School & I'm Atheist. WWYD?

[ramama]

Not sure if this belongs here or in TAO. If it's in the wrong place, I apologize!

My mother and step-father have become VERY active in their church. Every summer we visit for 3 weeks (they live in MD and we live in CO). Although I speak to my Mom on many occasions regarding religion, I don't think she knows that I am atheist. Atheist or not, I am extremely interested in religion and we have some great theological discussions. I never implied that I am Christian, just never said that I'm an atheist outright.

I think they have an inkling, though. Today they asked if they could take the girls to vacation bible school with them while we're in MD. They want to volunteer, but didn't think it would be appropriate to volunteer if we were in town, and wanted the girls to come too. They stressed that it will not be overwhelmingly religious and will be filled with science experiments and stories and stuff. The girls would be in the same age group, the one that my parents are volunteering for.

Here's the thing. I am not trying to raise my children to be atheist. We're raising them to find their own path. I have no problem with them learning/hearing Bible stories, since such stories are a huge influence in the world of art and literature, music and such. I just don't know if they are old enough to find their own truth. My 3yo will not care either way, but my 5yo is very in-tune to stuff like this and I don't know how it will affect her. I don't want people telling her something as if it's fact, when I want DD to discover for herself what she believes (ie, not to believe something because grandma believes). DD1 (again, DD2 does not care) knows that I don't believe in God, but knows that she can believe whatever she wants (we live in a very Christian area, so the subject of God comes up naturally quite often).

My step-father explicitly stated that there will be no "brain-washing" (his words) and just lots of fun stuff to do. The way they asked implied strongly that this is very important to them. I think they may know that I'm a non-believer because they asked me to think about it. I also think that DDs will enjoy time with the grandparents. But for some reason I'm hesitating.

So what do I do? Do I let DDs go and hope it all works out? Do I let them go, but have a talk with them beforehand about what they will be exposed to and give them some say (like making it more about learning about a religion than practicing one)? Or do I just flat out say no?

[Kaitnbugsmom]

My MIL does this to us every year. DH's whole fam goes to the same ultra conserv. KJV ONLY borderline racist, definitely classist fundie church he was raised in. I was a member for nearly seven years, so I know this first hand to be the nature of the place. Neither Dh or I are any of those things anymore and don't want our children to be exposed to it without us at this point in their lives. MIL just does not get this she's relatively smart, but she sees and hears what she wants to and you can-not change her mind once she decides what's right and wrong on anything. Drives me nuts.

I treat the VBS thing much like I treat our AP practices angering them. They start in on VBS I say we'll have to see the first time. The second time I don't even answer. if she continues I say flat out that I really don't trust the membership not to hold their issues with dh and I against the girls, point out that they aren't capable of handling ODD's autism, and if they keep up, I tend to just walk away.

all of that to say this- they are your children. If your mama sense says it's a bad idea, it's a bad idea and you are well within your rights to expect your family to respect that.

[mata]

sigh, it's that time of year again, isn't it?

The sentence that jumped out at me most in your post was your not liking them exposed to that environment without your being there. I'd just tell my ILs what my reservations were and suggest they do something else together. I agree that your 5 yo would be impressionable, and that's what they count on. I also want my dds to choose their own path, but not because they got some crappy VBS trinkets that they thought were cool, KWIM?

[lilyka]

what kind of church is it? which denomination? that will determine just how much "outreach" there will be. I would ask more questions. at their age I wouldn't be too worried about it though.

[dimibella]

I would just tell them before hand that it's a learning experience, that it's something the grandparents want to share with them and, that you hope they have fun and if they have any questions about the experience that you want them to ask YOU about them when they get home. (vs grandparents as their answers may be skewed) I don't think a 5yo will retain that much anyway, my neice goes to VBS with us every summer since she was 5, she now 7 and it's really just a fun thing to her, she doesn't really think about the underlying theme.

[Sailor]

I wouldn't do it. I don't have kids, but I wouldn't even send myself to Bible camp.

No matter what type of Christianity it is - lenient or otherwise - it is a religion that is out to convert. Bible camp won't be a lesson that says "here is how we do things, but there are other ways to do them, and you can pick your own path." It will be something along the lines of "here is THE way to do things."

I grew up in Catholic schools, and I went to a variety of Christian churches. Christianity is a religion that actively seeks converts. And Bible camp IS a part of that.

I'm NOT saying anything negative about seeking converts. I was raised in the religion, I know it's a part of it. I'm not saying it's bad.

What I am saying is that if you want your kids exposed to religion in a way that allows them to choose among all other paths ... Bible camp is NOT the way to do it.

I'm an atheist as well, and don't intend to raise my kids to be atheist. I also want them to pick their own path. I plan on exposing them to all religions, in a way that is very open, and doesn't point to ONE truth, but rather a variety of personal belief systems to choose from.

I love theology, and I love discussions on it ... but, Bible camp is not the ideal place for that.

[dimibella]

Sailor- I totally KWYM, but most VBS are 3hrs of arts and crafts, or memorize a Bible verse and get a scoop of ice cream, memorize another and get a chocolate sauce to put on top, etc., not Bible camp, that's a little different IMO. FWIW, yes I want my kids to believe, yes I pray everyday that Christ will always be in their hearts, but I also believe that God gave us free will and they may choose to take a different path in life.

[caitlinlea]

if you want your kids exposed to religion in a way that allows them to choose among all other paths ... Bible camp is NOT the way to do it.

I agree with Sailor. I would refrain from putting my son in an environment where people spoke of stories in the Bible as facts, especially without someone there to explain that just because many people believe these things to be true doesn't mean they are.

Good luck with your decision!
Caitlin

[ramama]

Thanks for the great insight so far. I still have to talk to DH about it, and probably DD1.

Originally Posted by lilyka

what kind of church is it? which denomination? that will determine just how much "outreach" there will be. I would ask more questions. at their age I wouldn't be too worried about it though.

It's a Methodist church. Not the one I grew up in, but a different one.

[hotmamacita]

Originally Posted by ramama

Not sure if this belongs here or in TAO. If it's in the wrong place, I apologize!

My mother and step-father have become VERY active in their church. Every summer we visit for 3 weeks (they live in MD and we live in CO). Although I speak to my Mom on many occasions regarding religion, I don't think she knows that I am atheist. Atheist or not, I am extremely interested in religion and we have some great theological discussions. I never implied that I am Christian, just never said that I'm an atheist outright.

I think they have an inkling, though. Today they asked if they could take the girls to vacation bible school with them while we're in MD. They want to volunteer, but didn't think it would be appropriate to volunteer if we were in town, and wanted the girls to come too. They stressed that it will not be overwhelmingly religious and will be filled with science experiments and stories and stuff. The girls would be in the same age group, the one that my parents are volunteering for.

Here's the thing. I am not trying to raise my children to be atheist. We're raising them to find their own path. I have no problem with them learning/hearing Bible stories, since such stories are a huge influence in the world of art and literature, music and such. I just don't know if they are old enough to find their own truth. My 3yo will not care either way, but my 5yo is very in-tune to stuff like this and I don't know how it will affect her. I don't want people telling her something as if it's fact, when I want DD to discover for herself what she believes (ie, not to believe something because grandma believes). DD1 (again, DD2 does not care) knows that I don't believe in God, but knows that she can believe whatever she wants (we live in a very Christian area, so the subject of God comes up naturally quite often).

My step-father explicitly stated that there will be no "brain-washing" (his words) and just lots of fun stuff to do. The way they asked implied strongly that this is very important to them. I think they may know that I'm a non-believer because they asked me to think about it. I also think that DDs will enjoy time with the grandparents. But for some reason I'm hesitating.

So what do I do? Do I let DDs go and hope it all works out? Do I let them go, but have a talk with them beforehand about what they will be exposed to and give them some say (like making it more about learning about a religion than practicing one)? Or do I just flat out say no?

I think you should trust your instincts! If you are hesitating then it is for a reason and that is enough mama.

FWIW, I do not let my kids go to VBS and I believe in God. I love Jesus and I read the Bible as often as I can each day. My relationship with God is deeply important to me. But I have concerns about VBS as it is these days and my children have never been. I am okay with that. I am okay with trusting my instincts.

Hope this helps!

[indie]

There are some VBS programs that I won't send my kids to and I'm a Christian. I am the VBS director this year at our church so I spent a lot of time reviewing the VBS curricula that are out there and some of them are pretty bad IMO. Do you know which curriculum the church is using? I'd be happy to give you my thoughts if you do. Many (probably most) Methodist Churches are using Camp E.D.G.E. There is a song that is evangelism themed and says: "Tell the whole world we know Jesus is the only way." That curriculum is one of the better ones, but would possibly be a problem if you just want the children to learn stories but not be told that Christianity is *the* path.

[*Jade*]

Hmmm, that's a tough one. For me, it's important to raise my (currently) hypothetical kids in the same way - to look at religions and decide what is right for them.

That said, I think we will be phrasing beliefs as "Grandma and Grandad believe this, we believe that", because the issue for me comes when christianity is passed as fact, rather than opinion. So if they do go, I'd have some discussions about how people believe different things, and sometimes there isn't a right or wrong answer.

[Callimom]

I'd say no if it were me.
Most VBCs are built around the idea of recruitment which frankly icks me out. The comment from your step father would raise red flags for me and I would be concerned about how to exit the situation gracefully and without hurt feelings if there is more "brainwashing" than you or your children are comfortable with. Exposure to religions and their stories as an academic exercise is a lovely idea, but it feels a bit to me like your parents may be hoping to instill some religious values or open the door to your children following their path, rather than yours and eventually their own. I personally wouldn't be okay with that. 3 and 5 year olds are not capable of truly discerning the difference between "these are nice stories that help some people understand their place in the world" and "this is Truth", especially with the added weight of the grandparents endorsing, believing and actively promoting that world view.

I'd suggest to your parents instead that you would like to spend your limited time and the kids' energy doing XYZ together, and as a compromise coming with your girls on one day (perhaps the last one) to see what their grandparents have been spending time doing so that you can explain things and check out the tone of the camp.

Good luck
Karen

[Bluegoat]

The vacation Bible schools I've seen were Anglican, and I wouldn't be worried about any kids going to those. They aren't a hard sell, usually the theme is love or sharing or caring for others. Most of the time spent is crafts and experiments, although there is lots of singing "This little Light is mine." Usually there is one memory Bible verse.

That said, I don't know much about the programs the Methodists use.

[lilyka]

hmmmm, Methodist could go either way. the one I grew up in was super liberal (amazing considering this was the south in the 80s) to the point that they shattered any belief in God that I had because they so didn't care one way or the other. it was all the same and all roads led to heaven. but then my friend went to a charismatic evangelical ubber conservative Methodist church . . .its a toss up really. but yeah, I don't remember anyone trying to convert a bunch of kids when I went to Methodist VBS. i remember making these necklaces every year that involved a machine, playing lots of softball and sliding down the poles that supported the balcony. and crafts crafts. we probably sang a few rounds of this little light of mine and kum bi ya. I don't recall any memory verses or anything (most of the people at that church didn't even own a Bible much less open it)

would you be up for going with them?

[lilyka]

Sorry, not trying to convince you to take them btw, I wouldn't send my kids to any VBS outside of our own church. we are Orthodox and I think the theology of most VBS programs is pretty wonky. Not to mention the huge production aspect of it. i am sure they would have fun and stuff but i think it would only serve to confuse them.

[Freefromitall]

The one that my dd went to last year was mostly morality lessons, like "don't lie" or "stealing is wrong"
But, I'm not an atheist, just not really into the whole religion thing.

[philomom]

No, I don't think I could do it.

[NicaG]

I'm going to argue for sending them. To me, it sounds like a fun summer activity, and it sounds like your parents will be looking out for the kids and are sensitive to your feelings (they've already gone out of their way to tell you it's not "brainwashing" etc.). I think it sounds like a low-key way for your kids to learn a little about the religion that's important to their grandparents. Kids are going to learn bits and pieces about Christianity at school, from tv, from friends, etc. etc. Some of these influences are going to be pushy, obnoxious, inaccurate, etc. At least at this summer program, what they learn will probably be pretty straightforward and they'll have a chance to ask questions.

Of course, if it really feels wrong to you, don't send them. But to me, it sounds like it could be a nice experience for them, albeit with a few ideas about religion thrown in.

[Drummer's Wife]

Originally Posted by Sailor

I wouldn't do it.
What I am saying is that if you want your kids exposed to religion in a way that allows them to choose among all other paths ... Bible camp is NOT the way to do it.

I'm an atheist as well, and don't intend to raise my kids to be atheist. I also want them to pick their own path. I plan on exposing them to all religions, in a way that is very open, and doesn't point to ONE truth, but rather a variety of personal belief systems to choose from.

I love theology, and I love discussions on it ... but, Bible camp is not the ideal place for that.

: exactly