Vacation Bible School & I'm Atheist. WWYD? - Page 2

[Just Elsa]

I'd give it a pass. As a Christian (Untied Methodist) who once let the non-custodial father's mother-in-law take my kid to VBS at her church, I learned that you have to be really careful about faith-based groups with which you are not super familiar. I did not realize this particular Baptist Church thought Armageddon was a good subject for intensive focus by first graders. It is not a choice I'd have made had I been more mindful. From now on, if it isn't a church I attend regularly and am familiar with the doctrine and attitude of, I will not be sending my kid alone to instruction without review beforehand.

VBS is not day camp. It's directed religious instruction of a "this is what is" variety. I would not choose it as a method of helping children choose their own way. Wrong tool for the job. Maybe you could take them to church with the grandparents so that you have a shared experience to discuss with them?

[aweynsayl]

~i didnt read all the replies, but as a pagan who was brought up very much "find your own way," but with very very very christian family members.... i went with my cousins to bible camp one summer and had a perfectly splendid time....

[Theoretica]

OP it *really* depends on the individual church. I know methodist churches that are VERY black and white. And, VBS is intended to expand the congregation, the entire point is to provide a fun avenue for the neighborhood/surrounding area to be familiar with the church and start coming.

As a parent, it's important to me that I give my kids a foundation of OUR beliefs. We are atheist because our belief/reality is there is no god. Sending my kids to a place where they are TOTALLY surrounded by people who are convinced otherwise just doesn't make sense to me.

However, here are some questions to ask the youth minister to get a better feel for it:

1. What is the goal of your church's VBS program?
2. Which curriculum are you using?
3. Do you have an altar call, or in any way encourage the kids to 'accept Jesus'?
4. What is your church's belief in salvation, and how is that belief shared with the kids during VBS?
5. What is your church's viewpoint of alternative belief systems, including atheism?

Good luck!

[hotmamacita]

Originally Posted by Karenwith4

I'd say no if it were me.
Most VBCs are built around the idea of recruitment which frankly icks me out. The comment from your step father would raise red flags for me and I would be concerned about how to exit the situation gracefully and without hurt feelings if there is more "brainwashing" than you or your children are comfortable with. Exposure to religions and their stories as an academic exercise is a lovely idea, but it feels a bit to me like your parents may be hoping to instill some religious values or open the door to your children following their path, rather than yours and eventually their own. I personally wouldn't be okay with that. 3 and 5 year olds are not capable of truly discerning the difference between "these are nice stories that help some people understand their place in the world" and "this is Truth", especially with the added weight of the grandparents endorsing, believing and actively promoting that world view.

This is well put. I, too, bristle when I sense arrogance or recruitment coming from leadership within religious environments.

Anyway, I am hesitant to tell the OP to do anything, however, than to trust her own instincts! She is best for her children. I hope her parents respect her choice.

[Adele_Mommy]

I vote for not sending your kids to VBS. If the program is overtly converting, then obviously you don't want that, but if the program is not overtly converting, then that is even worse IMO. The camp will seem just like any other camp 90% of the time and the little bit of religious doctrine will be slipped in as just part of life, something everyone accepts and that no one could possibly have a problem with. This is a type of indoctrination that is difficult for adults to resist, much less small children. I would never send my dd to a school or camp or any other religious education for any religion other than my own. I am an agnostic Unitarian Universalist by the way.

[PaigeC]

Originally Posted by Bluegoat

They aren't a hard sell, usually the theme is love or sharing or caring for others. Most of the time spent is crafts and experiments, although there is lots of singing "This little Light is mine." Usually there is one memory Bible verse.

That said, I don't know much about the programs the Methodists use.

This is my experience too. I went to a VBS one summer with a friend and I remember the crafts and we got to ride a horse! Very exciting. The "lessons" were all about sharing, kindness, etc and always had a craft attached to it. I think summer camps are great for kids and VBS is very much a summer camp IMO.

Can you attend with them? To observe? I don't think they should object - if they do then what are they hiding?

[bremen]

my mom is athiest, and i grew up without faith.
i have my own spiritual beliefs, and have found my connection to the higher power in my own personal way.
that said,
i LOVED VBS. i went 2 or 3 years, and absolutely loved it, had a great time, and wished it lasted longer! there were so many fun things to do, and i even liked memorizing the verses. the verses themselves were always positive, about love and kindness. even though i never thought of the bible as being any different from the greek myths, the bhagavad-gita, or any other myths, i really enjoyed learning about other's beliefs.
in the church i went to, most of the "religious education" in the under 10 classes was colouring some pictures and watching veggie tales on friday.
in older elementary/ middle school, it ws a lot more open to discussion, and i really had a great time learning about the faith of others.
to me, it was no different than going to any other religious activity from another culture.

I would definitely send my kids to VBS

[hrsmom]

Interesting thread! I've decided to stop going to the church I was attending before my daughter was born, because I don't want her growing up with those beliefs. (I was ok being "different" before she was born, but I don't want my kid there!) Anyay, I probably would let her go to VBS if a friend invited her or if we were in a situation like you're describing. My only thing in your situation would be if it cuts into the family visit. I would pass if it meant less quality family visit time. And of course, your instincts over rule all!

[lil_earthmomma]

Ok, I grew up going to vbs and bible camps of many different denomonations. I wouldn't send your kiddos. Even if the curiculum is pretty tame, the children aren't. I got told I was going to hell at least once every summer because I was catholic, and not fill in the blank denomonation. Pretty harsh stuff for a 5 year old to digest. Also, the wording is going to be stuff like "Jesus is the only way" blah blah blah.

I'm not an atheist, but I don't think I'd send my kiddos to vbs without being there.

Could you volunteer? Maybe do the snack or something non religious?

[beansmama]

There is a HUGE difference between wanting to let your kids find their own paths, and sending them to VBS...where they will be indoctrinated and likely accept Jesus in their hearts.

As an atheist, i'm not really understanding WHY you'd want to send your kids to learn about something you totally disagree with, don't believe, from a "This is true" perspective. I understand wanting to raise your kids to think for themselves, but for the love of (no) god...teach them yourself! YOU be there teacher...don't let some religious nut do it or you may never get your kids back. Ugh.

If you want to give them a religious education that comes from someone other than you, then try a UU church...personally, they are too weird for me, but at least they don't preach any one thing as "the way, the truth, and the light".

[beansmama]

Originally Posted by Theoretica

OP it *really* depends on the individual church. I know methodist churches that are VERY black and white. And, VBS is intended to expand the congregation, the entire point is to provide a fun avenue for the neighborhood/surrounding area to be familiar with the church and start coming.

As a parent, it's important to me that I give my kids a foundation of OUR beliefs. We are atheist because our belief/reality is there is no god. Sending my kids to a place where they are TOTALLY surrounded by people who are convinced otherwise just doesn't make sense to me.

However, here are some questions to ask the youth minister to get a better feel for it:

1. What is the goal of your church's VBS program?
2. Which curriculum are you using?
3. Do you have an altar call, or in any way encourage the kids to 'accept Jesus'?
4. What is your church's belief in salvation, and how is that belief shared with the kids during VBS?
5. What is your church's viewpoint of alternative belief systems, including atheism?

Good luck!

I've been to many different VBS's in my life - both attending as a child and helping out when i was older. Different churches, different states even - i have never known a VBS *NOT* to encourage kids to accept Jesus. That's the entire POINT of VBS. Occupy our kids during the boring summer, fill their heads with garbage and get them to accept Jesus. When has a (christian) church ever done something without the hopes of seeking converts?

[Maiasaura]

my ds is 8 now, but when he was 4, we visited my cousin whom i hadn't seen in a looooong time. she and i were very best friends at 17, and this was 4y ago when we were 45.
i'm very much Pagan, and she's now very much Christian of some sort. she goes to both Episcopalian (in which we were both raised, separately, but her brand now is much more evangelical/fundie/something) and...i think Presbyterian?
but at her house i was surprised to find God songs in the CD player all the time, etc. she was VERY much into it.
anyway she told me before we got there that she was involved in the VBS and we could go or not go, but that she was committed.

so, we went. ds participated. the whole time. i went in once, and was pretty mortified. it was partially like a camp, with tents and stations for crafts and stories and fun things, but there was one part at the end of every day, where everyone gathered in this auditorium and got led in Jesus songs, with a screen backdrop with pictures on it, and words to the songs for them to follow, and leaders up front with identical camp shirts and too-fake pasted Barbie smiles.
and they'd every now and again shout things like "who loves Jesus?" expecting the crowd to yell answers, just like in a regular camp, call and response.
it was awful-- for ME.
i did not really want ds to be involved in this thing, but i didn't want to insult my cousin, i was btw a rock and a hard place-- but in the end, ds didn't at ALL get anything about Jesus or God or anything. at ALL.
it was a zoo or jungle or some animal curriculum that year.
he got to tie-dye a shirt and print animal stencils on it, and he had it for years.

anyway, that said, i would not do it again, because of MY comfort level, but it was harmless in hindsight. as i hoped it might be in the moment.

BUT. here are more hindsight thoughts. how often do you/your kids get to visit the grandparents? is it more important for them to do VBS than visit with you? can't they wait a year? if not, if it IS that important to them, then consider what they might have in mind for teaching the kids...or how much you want them to be involved. or, judging from what i and others have said, if you care

i am a Pagan and i am also a UU. our church is really awesome because in the RE (religious education) they do teach about many religions-- better than i could do it. and there is room for athiests in the UU. there are some in my church. though i do admit it's kind of weird, like a PP said, if you don't find your niche; it took me awhile to figure out what it was all about, there. they ought to call it Salon and not Church, lol; there's no gods mentioned except in historical/prophetical context, it's very intellectual, and i think the only thing missing is lots of coffee and cigarette smoke

well, wasn't that off topic sorry!

anyway, OP, i hope you find a solution. let us know how it goes!

[siobhang]

with older kids (i.e. over 8), I might let 'em, but at 3 and 5, no way in heck. Kids are far too literal at this age - a friend's daughter went to a baptist preschool for a year at age 4 - and even though the school was very liberal and not very pushy, the little girl was completely indoctrinated in "I have to be nice because Jesus wants me to be nice".

I went to VBS at age 10 and it was great. But by that age, I knew what I believed and didn't believe and had some ability to judge whether I was being told something I agreed with or not. However, at age 5 my mom sent me to the local methodist sunday school, but pulled me out when I came home proudly stating that "the Jews killed Christ".

I vote for NO - not at this age. There is a reason why religions heavily sponsor preschools and VBS - because you "get 'em while they are young." - I actually agree with this philosophy for my own kids, which is why we go to SUUSI every year and are very involved in religious education at my church. Because I want my kids fully indoctrinated into the values MY family believes in. Yes, they will definitely be exposed to other ideas and beliefs (we are UU after all), but not until they are old enough to have critical thinking and judgement, questioning what they are taught (and I fully expect them to question what we have taught them too).