I didn't have a problem with the Dr. Sears vaccine book UNTIL NOW

[gbailey]

Under the flu chapter he says getting the flu shot for infants and children is a good idea because if they get the flu parents may have to miss a few days of work and this could cause a severe financial hardship. This is ridiculous. When I was working full-time I had something called sick days or could take a personal day. I just hate the "we're speaking to idiots" tone that comes along with a lot of the vaccine information I read.

[ravens_mum]

If you notice, he gives every perspective he can think of under reasons parents consider giving each vaccine and reasons they consider forgoing each vaccine. Every working person does not get paid sick days and many families are living paycheck to paycheck; so, the idea of a parent having to make a call between their concerns over a vaccine and concerns over the financial hardship of missing a few days work to take care of a sick child is not far fetched.

[Marnica]

I would rather face financial hardship that inject my child with an ineffective and possible harmful flu shot. But that's just me.

[peainthepod]

If the flu shot doesn't work--and it often doesn't--then there's a whole lot of risk for the huge potential of no protection at all, not to mention the very real risk of various long-term health problems related to the vaccine itself. Even our pediatrician, who is very pro-vax even if she recognizes the parental right to refuse vaccination, doesn't recommend the flu shot. She has referred to it as "no better than a coin toss" in terms of protection. Personally, I think it's even worse, since the vaccine compromises the immune system, making the child even more susceptible to illness.

That the flu shot is marketed as a way to keep parents from missing work disgusts me; it's misleading at best.

[Mama~Love]

Originally Posted by Marnica

I would rather face financial hardship that inject my child with an ineffective and possible harmful flu shot. But that's just me.

:

[caned & able]

Originally Posted by Marnica

I would rather face financial hardship that inject my child with an ineffective and possible harmful flu shot. But that's just me.

Didn't Mothering Magazine have an article a few quarters back about how caring for an autistic child bankrupts families?

That is real financial hardship.

[emma1325]

Honestly, though, Kimberly...we're training our employers to not expect us to put our families first. We're sending them the message that we'd rather risk the short and long term, known and unknown, effects of the vaccines than risk having to take off of work to care for our kids should they become ill.

A vaccine is a dangerous short-cut IMO. I wonder how many parents vaccinated, in part, because they thought it would help them not have to miss as much work...and ended up with a chronically ill child and in an even more desperate financial situation.

[hollytheteacher]

I think it's silly to dismiss the whole book because of that statement. As a pp mentioned, for each vax, he gives every single reason/argument he's ever heard for pro and con. Some of the reasons people DO give shots might seem silly as are some of the reasons people DON'T.

Many people (especially on MDC) are educated in their choices and do what they feel is right. Others, might not be and might have "rediculous" reasons by your standard, but it's not like he's preaching his whole book like that "do vax's or you'll have to miss work" he's only giving one example that he's heard before.

[medusaatemydog]

Originally Posted by Marnica

I would rather face financial hardship that inject my child with an ineffective and possible harmful flu shot. But that's just me.

:

[MoonWillow]

I'm re-opening this. I have removed a few posts. Please remember to stay on topic and to take any personal stuff to PM (or report).

Thanks

[KimberlyD0]

I can see how for a family who already lives in financial hardship that missing work is not always an option. That sometimes this is a reason, one I disagree with, that parents will sometimes do vaccines.

We are one of those families who live barely above the poverty line. We both work. We're what people refer to as "working poor" paycheck to paycheck barely gets us through.

We have sick days but they are NOT paid and I am only allowed 10 for the year no matter what. I have 10 vaccation days, but those have been used to meet the medical appointments out of town for DD#2 so no "real vaccation" for me. Thats 10 sick days for me AND the kids combined. I work for an amarican Corperation. Before it was bought out by the amarican company, we had 10 sick days, plus we could miss 20 days a year for personal reasons.

While I wouldn't get vaccinations for that reason, I can understand why someone would see that as a good idea. Something like CP for example would take ALL of my 10 days and should they both get it at different times in the same year, it would cost me my job. Without my job we have no home, no food, no clothing, nothing.

So while it is not a valid reason to me, I can see why its valid for some. Especially when you already live in financial hardship.

We have a child with special needs. And while her basic medical care, doctors, and treatments are paid for we still bare the responcibility for physio and occupational tharopies, orthopedic shoes, lifts, and braces, medications to ensure she can breath, and so she wont get a blood clot which could kill her and hospital rooms if we want more then a ward, which we do at the moment because she is so little I wouldn't want her in a room with 4 people. Plus there is the hearing and eye tests every 6 months that she needs as well. Costs add up quickly.

So for me to miss work to much, or to loose my job would go far beyond hardship and mean disaster. I know there are others in the same or worse situations then me so I suppose I can kind of see it from their perspective. Does it make it right? No.. but its not "wrong" for them either.

[k9sarchik]

My friend with her fully vaxed child has missed more days of work then me due to allergies, colds with ear infections, and strep throat under the age of 18 months.

Vaxed kids do not guarantee less time missed from work. Could be quite the opposite. Vaccinated kids have higher rates of ADD, ADHD, allergies, autism, etc. Check out Generation Rescue's survey. http://www.generationrescue.org/survey.html

[KimberlyD0]

Originally Posted by k9sarchik

My friend with her fully vaxed child has missed more days of work then me due to allergies, colds with ear infections, and strep throat under the age of 18 months.

Vaxed kids do not guarantee less time missed from work. Could be quite the opposite. Vaccinated kids have higher rates of ADD, ADHD, allergies, autism, etc. Check out Generation Rescue's survey. http://www.generationrescue.org/survey.html

There is no documented proff of that. Only speculation. Millions of vaxed children are perfictly healthy and have no allergies or Autism. Non vaxed kids can also get sick often, have allergies, and Autism.

[medusaatemydog]

Originally Posted by KimberlyD0

There is no documented proff of that. Only speculation. Millions of vaxed children are perfictly healthy and have no allergies or Autism. Non vaxed kids can also get sick often, have allergies, and Autism.

then why don't they compare unvaxxed to vaxxed... unvaxxed kids may get sick, but none that i know of as often as a fully vaxxed child... they do have allergies but not as many as a vaccinated child and autism is really rare in unvaxxed kids.... go ask the OMISH ....

why is it all of a sudden now provax are trying to say autism is normal in unvaxxed children??

i know vaxxed kids... and they are all constantly coughing and sick and i never see that in my unvaxxed friends kids or mine ( my son has been sick 3 times in almost 6 years)... the more vaxxing it seems the more autoimmune disorders, less vaxing little or no autism or allergies there are doctors who have this in thier practice...there are so many of us out there living it and it's always people who are provax who deny the obvious until the end... fear and denial is how i see it..

ya know what...none of us would have anything to say about anyone else if vaccines were not mandatory and i would bet anything there would be alot less neurological and autoimmune issues in children...

too many people out there w/children who are suffering right after a vax, too many coincedences... we are not all genetically different as if to say all of a sudden that we are just born that way and vaxs have nothing to do with it. Vaxs and increased use of pharmecuticals in pediatrics have too many parallels...and that is documented in many places

[medusaatemydog]

just the fact that injecting the amount of aluminum found in a vaccine in a 2 month old whos' neurologically not developed until around 2 years of age is something that everyone should be taking into consideration... these things are not discussed and are dismissed... for a long list of vaccines for which many of these diseases are of little threat

and all these unreported reactions, conflict of interest and deaths...well they are just a coicedence... ?

[newmum35]

Originally Posted by gbailey

Under the flu chapter he says getting the flu shot for infants and children is a good idea because if they get the flu parents may have to miss a few days of work and this could cause a severe financial hardship. This is ridiculous. When I was working full-time I had something called sick days or could take a personal day. I just hate the "we're speaking to idiots" tone that comes along with a lot of the vaccine information I read.

I agree... ridiculous.... His was one of the first books I read, and I thought he was WAY too PRO VAX for me, recommending some things I felt were probably not necessary. But I did like the way he set up the book with the diseases it was easy for someone who hadnt done any research yet, to understand.

Any ped. who agrees that flu shots are a good idea for everyone is crazy in my opinion.

[jessjgh1]

After dealing with chicken pox with my 2... one who caught it 'wild' and the other who got it from her... and we shared with those willing and wanting(-; I can actually see why some families would feel a financial obligation to vax- given the choice.... (flu, or chicken pox). However, just so many people don't even question anything anyways.
However, the thing is, our public policy is taking that choice away and making it for everyone. I have the luxury of being able to stay home but I know not everyone does and having to be out of work for the almost 3 weeks that we were 'contagious' or potentially contagious could be financially devastating for many. .
Now the flu is a bit different than chicken pox, because it doesn't confer lifelong immunity... among other reasons, but I can see that the financial reasons could be very compelling to some families. I'd have to read the Sears chapter again, but I would think that is a pretty weak reason to recommend the flu vaccine... maybe that was the only reason he could come up with-- thus not so great of an endorsement for the flu vax.
In general, we do need businesses (society) to step up on supporting parents, mothers, birth, early childhood.... and that's a huge battle. It's a long leap from the issue of family friendly businesses to educate people to realize the policy issues (of vaccines) are being made based on financial/socioeconomic dynamics. Not to mention bad science- and lobbyists with a $$agenda$$.
Perhaps the one good thing about the swine flu is it did encourage more businesses to really support people staying home if they were sick, to discourage spreading... but that wont' last long... I couldn't believe people were not a bit frightened to hear that a vax would be able to be released in weeks, like they would be okay with injecting a vax that had not undergone any safety testing. I sure wouldnt' be.

Jessica

[jessjgh1]

Originally Posted by medusaatemydog

then why don't they compare unvaxxed to vaxxed... unvaxxed kids may get sick, but none that i know of as often as a fully vaxxed child... they do have allergies but not as many as a vaccinated child and autism is really rare in unvaxxed kids.... go ask the OMISH ....

too many people out there w/children who are suffering right after a vax, too many coincedences...

While I agree that there are too many coincidences, I do think it is incorrect to compare what you 'see' or 'notice'. It's just too small a scale (unless you are a pedi or something and see thousands of kids).

In my observation, I'd say that my dd who is completely unvaxed, gets sick more than my ds did. My ds was vaxed partially/delayed and then stopped at about 18 months. Some of the unvaxed kids I know are as sick as much as the vaxed kids I know. I'd love to be able to say that the unvaxed kids are healthier, because it makes sense to me, and in the long run I think it will be the case. For example, I do see my dd handling being sick better. I do think they will have a stronger healthy immune system from following the natural progression and not the vaccine 'shortcuts' to immunity.

I can see confounding issues on the general presumption of unvaxed being healthier---- as those that unvax might tend to be more educated and more focused on a healthy lifestyle for their families... The Amish lifestyle is certainly far different than the typical American, which could contribute in many a way.

I certainly don't disagree with you, but I think it is misleading and it potentially weakens the arguments to focus on such observations instead of educating people on the benefits of natural immunity for example, or discussing the individual reasons one might choose not to vax, (high level of aluminum, etc).

Jessica

[EviesMom]

Originally Posted by k9sarchik

My friend with her fully vaxed child has missed more days of work then me due to allergies, colds with ear infections, and strep throat under the age of 18 months.

Vaxed kids do not guarantee less time missed from work. Could be quite the opposite. Vaccinated kids have higher rates of ADD, ADHD, allergies, autism, etc. Check out Generation Rescue's survey. http://www.generationrescue.org/survey.html

It's a toss up either way in terms of sick days IMO. When DS had not yet gotten any vaxes and was full-time breastfeeding... he got sick constantly. Selectively vaxed DD, who was even in preschool around lots of sick kids, got sick very rarely. It's all anecdotal unless you actively study a uniform group of kids though.

Now this year, they're both selectively vaxed, and both have been sick some. DD more than DS, I think partially bc she weaned in December, because he's gotten 3-4 "quickie sickies" as the sitter and I call them--the 6 hour fever and 12 hour version of a random upper respiratory illness. At the same time, DD has gotten 2-3 colds that last a week with lingering cough. And I got laryngitis from one of those colds for the first time in my life, or at least since I was little and don't remember it.

[gbailey]

Originally Posted by hollytheteacher

I think it's silly to dismiss the whole book because of that statement. As a pp mentioned, for each vax, he gives every single reason/argument he's ever heard for pro and con. Some of the reasons people DO give shots might seem silly as are some of the reasons people DON'T.

Many people (especially on MDC) are educated in their choices and do what they feel is right. Others, might not be and might have "rediculous" reasons by your standard, but it's not like he's preaching his whole book like that "do vax's or you'll have to miss work" he's only giving one example that he's heard before.

I didn't dismiss the entire book because I have read it quite a few times. I've had it since the birth of DD. That being said, the comment I mentioned bugged me and turned me off completely.