Social reasons for circumcision - Page 2

[georgia]

Hey, everyone Posts have been removed that were requesting porn links or referenced this, which even in jest, is not appropriate for our forum. Please see the TCAC Guidelines for more information. This type of discussion is best taken to PM. Sorry for the inconvenience. Thanks

[KaylaBeanie]

Originally Posted by KBecks

20% is 1 in 5.

25% is 1 in 4.

In a gym class of 28 boys, and with an 80% circ rate, about 5 or 6 boys will be intact.

Oh durhhh Kayla! Sorry, I'm pretty sick, I guess my math skills were the first to go

Originally Posted by MegBoz

OK, not that it's a good basis for reality, but I was watching the show "Sex and the City" on on-demand & there was a whole episode about an uncut guy. The one character, Charlotte, didn't like it. The guy claimed he'd had many female partners who had the same reaction & because of it, he actually chose to get circ'd as an adult!

Yes, of course, it's just a fictional TV show that has all kinds of crazy stories, but I do remember talking about sex with a friend freshman year of college (this was 1995). She was promiscuous & was talking about her conquests & said, "just never go down on an uncut guy, ick!" So I've heard it.

Personally though, when I first saw an uncut man (a boyfriend who was born & raised in Europe), I thought it was interesting. Exactly as you said - it was fascinating.

Originally Posted by inchwormz

Well, I'm afraid it's not nearly as uncommon as you think. I have two sisters are they are both freaked out over it (shallow is the tip of the iceberg). I don't think being with someone intact would actually stop them from sleeping with them, but they have both very openly stated they don't like it and prefer a circ't partner.

I also have more than one girlfriend that has stated the same - they don't like it. I'm not sure how I ended up with such shallow friends (opposites attract?!?) but there you have it.

Oh, I've also heard all the women who SAY it. However, when they come face to face with a guy they're attracted to, they certainly don't go running the other way and I have yet to meet a peer who has not thoroughly enjoyed an intact man, even if they swore up and down that they'd NEVER sleep with one. I think so many women claim that intact is so gross because they've only ever been with circ'd and feel like they'd be betraying their cut family members/friends/previous lovers to say that intact is as good or better. Though the "I prefer circ'd" quote always makes me laugh, considering 98% of those women have never even been with an intact man or even see one in real life.

[Shenjall]

...not to mention, theres just so, so much more to a good sexual experience than just whether or not someone is intact. It seems so.....ridiculous..... to decide on being with someone based solely on that one fact. Do people actually think that some guy is gonna rock their world simply b/c they've been circ'd? Or that they're going to be bored b/c he's intact? Just...odd.

[KristyDi]

Originally Posted by KaylaBeanie

I don't really see sex being a problem. Even in my generation, where most boys are cut, I've never heard of a girl freaking out and refusing to sleep with someone because he's intact. If anything, it's something excited and new for the female. I think the whole shallow female card has as much basis in reality as the adult man who had 946 infections by age 20 and had to be circ'd. Not unheard of, but very uncommon.

Plus, Dane Cook is intact. Do you really think his natural penis has ever stopped a woman from jumping into bed with him?

I figure if some chick dumps my (future) ds over him being intact then I've saved him from a relationship with UAV (is it name calling when you're referring to a possible future girlfriend of a possible future son? )

[Burnindinner]

Originally Posted by 2xy

Yeah, but.....if some extremely shallow chick dumps one of my sons over their circ status....

WHO CARES!?

They're better off without that kind of woman in their lives. For real! And I think they're both bright enough to see that.

Yeah, that's what I think!

[kriket]

Originally Posted by KaylaBeanie

I've never heard of a girl freaking out and refusing to sleep with someone because he's intact.

nak

i actually 'freaked' a little and asked my now DH if his circed penis "was ok" when we first got together.(it looked painful!) my only other BF was intact!

[nd_deadhead]

My family has been on all sides of this topic. My DH and his brother are circumcised; they did not know that their father was intact until they were in their 40's (and their Dad had passed away). Apparently their parents succombed to all the horror stories that FIL heard while he was in the Navy during WWII - in spite of the fact that his own experience (as far as I know) was the opposite.

My twins sons are 14 years old and intact. They learned about circumcision at age 8, and were horrified. When they learned their Dad was circumcised, one of them said he just assumed his Dad kept his foreskin pulled back all the time (it never EVER occurred to him that it had been cut off!); the other said "Poor Dad! He's missing the best part!" When they saw their Dad's penis they were much more interested in differences in size and hair than his lack of foreskin (and since they could retract by about age 3, they could make theirs look like his anyway).

Now the boys are in high school. They have no idea if their friends or classmates are intact or not, because they don't look and they don't ask. Nor do they parade around naked, so no one knows what their penises look like (in spite of the fact that they have a swimming unit in gym class, and obviously are required to undress completely). They simply undress modestly.

[kittywitty]

Originally Posted by MegBoz

I agree the locker room argument is silly. I'm pretty sure it's a bad thing for a boy to look at another boy's package in the first place! So a boy wouldn't go commenting on it anyway.

But I notice no one is talking about when a young man begins having sexual experiences, what his partners may think. (If you teach him not to have any sexual relations until marriage, than I suppose the point is moot. But personally, I think it's best to have at least a few partners first.)

Just saying - it's another side of the coin I haven't seen mentioned here.

I agree. However, I did not wait until marriage and I must say that my friends and I had no idea how to tell the difference between circed and intact. Thinking back I now know a few were intact, but it didn't matter nor could I tell a difference back then. And I've never known anyone IRL who cared, either.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by inchwormz

Well, I'm afraid it's not nearly as uncommon as you think. I have two sisters are they are both freaked out over it (shallow is the tip of the iceberg). I don't think being with someone intact would actually stop them from sleeping with them, but they have both very openly stated they don't like it and prefer a circ't partner.

I'm stunned to hear this about multiple women. I've never been with an intact man (I've had a total of five partners, and my generation were almost all circ'd). However, every woman I know IRL who has been with both prefers intact men...and I've heard more than one woman say they won't get involved with a circ'd man now. I think that's sad, for many reasons, but that's how they feel about it.

[hakeber]

Oh geez...my brother tried to tell me this when we told the family we had not had DS circ'ed. He will be made fun of! Think of the locker room!

I know boys do compare a lot, but hoepfully if Benjamin is ever in that position he will not need to engage in the argument at all. I feel sorry enough for the boys missing their foreskin without wishing teasing on them..poor things.

I have heard GFs say that they think un cut penises are "icky" to look at. I disagree, but the truth is how much time do you spend actually looking at the thing? I have found men with uncut penises grow longer, and thicker and are much more plesant in terms of friction.

Is that TMI?

Sorry It's true, though.

I have also found that post coital penises that have been cut tend to be sore and painfully sensitive, opposed to uncut pensis which just curl back into their hidey-holes, safe and sound.

They are much more functional.

[nerdymom]

Originally Posted by Fellow Traveler

Does anyone know the best part about teaching someone about something...

If they get it wrong you make them do it over again. :

:

I too know a lot of women who say they wouldn't be with an intact man. I say to that "sweet! you leave the best for me!" (not that I'd cheat on DH now) I always try to point out my experiences, and say the more the merrier, and that includes foreskin.

I think the locker room scenario is possible not not plausible. And the kid is going to get teased for something. If he had big ears would you cut them off?

[Fellow Traveler]

Originally Posted by nerdymom

:

I too know a lot of women who say they wouldn't be with an intact man. I say to that "sweet! you leave the best for me!" (not that I'd cheat on DH now) I always try to point out my experiences, and say the more the merrier, and that includes foreskin.

Some how I doubt their sincerity. I suspect if they had fallen for some guy who they later found to have a foreskin they'd get over it.

[jenP]

It's all about the dad

I believe that when a prospective father says he will circumcise his son for "social reasons," what is really going on is the father desperately wants there to be a good reason for his own circumcision. So he comes up with all kinds of reasons why it is necessary for the son. Because who wants to admit that he's missing part of his penis because of the whim of some doctor and his parents' lack of information 30 or so years ago? No one! So he convinces himself that he really did NEED to be circumcised for all those "social" or "cultural" reasons, and that it is so much better that he was, and therefore of course it will be better for his son, too. For a man to keep his son intact, he has to understand that circumcision is painful and changes the function of the penis and that there is NO REASON for it (excepting religion, which is not what I am discussing here.) Well, if he admits there is no reason to cut his son, he comes smack against the realization that there was NO REASON for him to be cut. Most guys have a big problem with that. So instead, they cling for dear life to the assumption that you just have to circumcise or the boy will be teased in the locker room, or rejected by girls, or whatever.
Perhaps it is not productive to point out to such a man all of the reasons already stated for why those "reasons to circumcise" are ludicrous. He won't ever listen because those "reasons" are his lifeline to self-acceptance. Perhaps there is a way to instead get a man to deal with his own feelings? If there is, I'd love to hear about it, I sure don't know! But it may be more useful than arguing particulars with someone who isn't dealing in reality due to denial.
Also, when a father says he wants his son to "look like him" he doesn't literally mean LOOK like him. He just means he wants his son to be circumcised, because he was. That way the dad, again, can feel good about his own circumcision by believing it is some noble and special family tradition or something. So it really does no good to point out to a man playing the "look like me" card all the ways that his son will NOT actually look like him, because the literal looks are not really the issue.

Jen

[hakunangovi]

JenP, that was a great post, and I think you have nailed the reason that so many men come up with these spurious reasons to have their own sons circumcised.

However, I am as baffled as you are as to how to beat the seamingly impenetrable wall of denial. One would think that simple logic would rule. There certainly are quite a few men who feel everything from disappointment to anger at their own circumcision, but few of them seem to be willing to talk about it, and the only evidence may be their insistance that their sons be intact. I was six when I discovered that I was missing my foreskin, and not a day has gone by that I have not felt regret (and other, stronger emotions !! ) over it.

For the benefit of lurkers, I want to emphasise that the locker room thing is a total myth. I spent all twelve years of school in boys boarding schools with open, communal showers. I never witnessed one single episode of teasing based on circumcision status. And , yes, we all looked - the notion of not looking or you'll be called a queer did not appear on our collective radar until teen years.

In the future when intact becomes the norm, I do not believe that the circ'd boys will face teasing or harassment. But there is no doubt that they will have access to any information that they desire. They will know what their parents did to them, and I suspect that there will be some very uncomfortable questions forthcomming.

[benj]

Originally Posted by 2xy

Yeah, but.....if some extremely shallow chick dumps one of my sons over their circ status....

WHO CARES!?

They're better off without that kind of woman in their lives. For real! And I think they're both bright enough to see that.

that's actually happened to me. one of the girls i was with said that it was absolutely disgusting and that i was stupid for thinking that she'd want to be with me. she has since apologized to me, but it still sucks hearing stuff like that.

but the locker room thing is a myth. i've never had anything said to me about being intact in high school/jr high while taking showers. most guys do not say anything about another guy's genitals in the locker room. i never really paid any attention to any other guys...i just did what i needed to do and left. we had a time restraint to get to the next class on time.

girls are definitely more viscious.