Need some support re: Chicken Pox and vax'ing friends...

[Jane456]

We're far "crunchier" than most of our friends, and delight in telling them about cloth diapers, co-sleeping, etc. But none of them - at all - can believe our decisions to selectively and delay vaccinations... which is really difficult. A lot of them are in the medical profession, and while we've tried to explain our perspectives, they were all horrified that DD was born in our bedroom - so its a tough bridge to cross!

We chose NOT to get Chicken Pox vaccine, and then decided to expose our children (2.5 yrs old and 7 months) when a local kid had it. It has only been 12 days since exposure, and without any warning (fever, illness, etc), our 7 month old seems to be getting spots. It could be bug bites (the mosquitoes here are the size of birds this year...!) but I have to face the reality that she may have Chicken Pox. We live in a very close community with a lot of friends as neighbours, and I'm terrified we may have infected some of the local kids who we play with every evening. Even this evening, in fact, it was the mom of another 7 month old who pointed out DD's "bug bites" this evening, which is what brought it to my attention... and DD and her baby had been swapping toys back and forth to chew on all afternoon...

What do I tell everyone? I am so conflicted. If friends hear that we intentionally exposed our kids - subsequently endangering their kids - I honestly think it could impact our friendships. (I know one reaction is "Well those aren't the kinds of friends you want anyways" - but in all honesty, they are great people, just like us, who haven't thought to question vaccines and all this before.) And so I am sitting here thinking of how to concoct a lie about where my kids got Chicken Pox - which I hate to have to do - and feeling awful for potentially introducing it to some of the younger ones who haven't been vaccinated, and whose parents will PANIC when they realise we've got it.

Help?

[lilbsmama]

They're your kids, do what you want. You don't have to lie to anybody, if they don't like it, oh well. As far as exposure, why would they freak out about CP of all things?

[Marnica]

The idea of panic over CP is laughable!!

If it were me Id just play dumb...gee I wonder where he got CP??

I will say however if I intentionally exposed my kids to CP expecting that because of this exposure there was a good chance of him getting CP and I was concerned about kids my LO came in contact with, I wouldn't of had him play with the other kids and swap spit...then I wouldn't be in a position where I feel i had to be dishonest KWIM?

[denimtiger]

That is a tough one, mama. I don't know that I would tell them you intentionally exposed them. Your seven month old wouldn't have been vaxed anyway, and that vaccine is nowhere near 100% effective.

If you had natural chickenpox, chances are a little slim that a 7 month old could catch chickenpox, although not impossible.

At this point, all you can do is hope for the best -- that none of the kids will contract it, or, if they do, that you'll have saved them from having shingles at age 8, which I have personally seen happen in vaxed kiddos. Maybe if some in your circle see kids come out unharmed, there will be more people who question the vax.

[SunshineJ]

Can you PROVE you child got cp because you went out of your way to expose him? Can you PROVE that he was never ever in any contact with any child recently vaxxed for cp or who was contagious but not symptomatic with cp? Of course you can't! I wouldn't mention the intentional exposure; it will only cause a rift and that very well may have nothing to do with where your child got it anyway. Just let people know if he does have it out of courtesy and if they ask how, tell them you don't know exactly how they got it, perhaps a child at the playground was recently vaxxed and shedding, who really knows? And leave it at that. When they start about how this wouldn't have happened if you'd vaxxed, aren't you sorry you didn't yadda, yadda, then remind them your lo is too young for the vax anyway so it wouldn't have mattered, and how happy you are he now has a lifetime immunity instead of one that will wane. CP is NOT a big deal. If you also act like it's not a big deal, your friends will probably freak out just a little bit less.

[brendaziz]

I went thru this same thing w/ my baby a few years ago. Don't let other people's opinions bother you and if people want to keep their kids in a bubble then so be it.

[emma1325]

Hmmm, maybe you could say your child got the shot, and got it from the shot. That HAS happened before.

[Baby_Vol]

Why are people panicing over chicken pox? Huh?

Did they not have CP as kids?

I'm fairly young ..under 30 ..I'm not sure when the CP shot came out, but everyone here in my generation had it as kids. I didn't even know there was a shot for it until I had DS. That's what made me begin questioning vaccines. My doc gave me a spill about "dangerous CP" and it made me laugh in his face. I know there are a few bad cases, but honestly ....I never knew a single person with a bad case until the vax came out and people started saying "well, my brother's cousin's friend was in the hospital." When I was a kid, everyone (and I do mean everyone) had CP. It was a natural part of our lives, and very very normal. Ever bit as normal as and ear infection or strep throat is now ...nothing to freak over. My Mom's biggest worry? That I would get a permanent scar from scratching.

I know you think your friends will freak, but really ....it's not that bad. Get some calamine lotion, and all will be fine in a few days time.

[jeliphish]

Originally Posted by Jane456

We live in a very close community with a lot of friends as neighbours, and I'm terrified we may have infected some of the local kids who we play with every evening.
Help?

I think it would be very irresponsible of you to not inform other parents that your children may have pox.
Even though I plan to let my children get pox by natural exposure, it's up to ME to decide when expose because I think a lot of people misjudge how all consuming it is to have a sick child with a relatively longer healing virus like pox. You also don't know what other health concerns are going on with these children and their families. I agree that natural immunity is best but by no means does that give you the right to expose others children without the parent being informed.

[jeliphish]

Originally Posted by brendaziz

I went thru this same thing w/ my baby a few years ago. Don't let other people's opinions bother you and if people want to keep their kids in a bubble then so be it.

It has nothing to do with people keeping their children in a bubble. THese parents have the right to know the risk. It's just as common of a courtesy as saying...."oh little jimmy has the flu so you may not want to let your toddler around if you don't want him getting sick. It's rude to assume that you, as the parent of a sick child, has no responsibility in telling others the risk.
What if one of the local mom has no immunity or low immunity to pox and she is pregnant, her titres are low etc, etc. Her toddler gets pox from the OP's son because he has no immunity either. That's a risk. What if another parent has a family member who is going through chemo, and they think it's okay to visit when they are harboring pox and don't even know it.
Yeah... hooray for natural immunity/exposure....but sick is sick is sick, whether it be pox, strep throat, flu. It's rude, unsafe, and irresponsible not to let other's know around you that you or your children are sick.

I am all about delaying and selecting vaxes and don't get the chicken pox. But when I recently had DD2 someone held her and kissed her even though they had an active case of shingles. This still infuriated me and scared me. I want her to get exposed at some point but as the parent it's MY RIGHT to decide that time....not someone elses who thinks I "shouldn't live in a bubble".

[gr8blessings]

Originally Posted by SunshineJ

as cp is a vaccine that can and does often cause the virus there is NO way for her to explicitly know how her child caught it.

Vaccinees with a post-vaccination varicella-like rash rarely transmit the vaccine-associated virus. Data from the United States indicate that after more than 20 million varicella vaccine doses distributed, only three cases have been identified in which vaccine-associated virus was transmitted to close contacts; all contacts experienced a mild rash.

from http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/publicat/...4-vari-eng.php

The attack rate among susceptible contacts in household settings is estimated at 65%-87%.

same source

So, yes, there is no way that a mother can know explicitly how her child caught it, but chances are overwhelmingly obvious that it was from the kid with the wild CP.

HTH,
gr8blessings

[Gitti]

http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/...cine-shedding/

Chicken Pox Vaccine - Vaccine-strain chickenpox has been found replicating in the lung (4) and documented as transmtting via zoster (shingles sores) (5) as well as “classic” chickenpox (6) rash post-vaccination.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by jeliphish

It has nothing to do with people keeping their children in a bubble. THese parents have the right to know the risk. It's just as common of a courtesy as saying...."oh little jimmy has the flu so you may not want to let your toddler around if you don't want him getting sick. It's rude to assume that you, as the parent of a sick child, has no responsibility in telling others the risk.
What if one of the local mom has no immunity or low immunity to pox and she is pregnant, her titres are low etc, etc. Her toddler gets pox from the OP's son because he has no immunity either. That's a risk. What if another parent has a family member who is going through chemo, and they think it's okay to visit when they are harboring pox and don't even know it.
Yeah... hooray for natural immunity/exposure....but sick is sick is sick, whether it be pox, strep throat, flu. It's rude, unsafe, and irresponsible not to let other's know around you that you or your children are sick.

I am all about delaying and selecting vaxes and don't get the chicken pox. But when I recently had DD2 someone held her and kissed her even though they had an active case of shingles. This still infuriated me and scared me. I want her to get exposed at some point but as the parent it's MY RIGHT to decide that time....not someone elses who thinks I "shouldn't live in a bubble".

I think you are reading this wrong. OP correct me if Im wrong. You are not saying you have no intention of telling the other parents that your child has CP. You are not trying to hide this fact from them, You are just not sure you want to tell them that you intentionally exposed your child.

[runes]

Question: Do parents who vaccinate their children with live virus vaccines always tell others that their children could possibly be shedding?

Vaxing is an intentional exposure, too, you know.

This situation and some of the responses just goes to show the incredible double standard that exists. It's ok to intentionally expose a child to a disease via a needle at a doctor's office, but a natural exposure to a disease carries the risk of being a social pariah.

Vaccine marketers have done a good job.

[Peony]

I went through this a year ago when my girls had CP, I never told the people that would disapprove and may never be around us again that I had on purpose exposed my children to CP. The people that it was easy not to see for a few weeks, and I did not expose, I just said that we had been ill for a while. Others, I did say we had CP never giving out more info. I would not say that you exposed your child to CP, after all you can still get CP accidently.

[brendaziz]

Originally Posted by jeliphish

It has nothing to do with people keeping their children in a bubble. THese parents have the right to know the risk. It's just as common of a courtesy as saying...."oh little jimmy has the flu so you may not want to let your toddler around if you don't want him getting sick. It's rude to assume that you, as the parent of a sick child, has no responsibility in telling others the risk.
What if one of the local mom has no immunity or low immunity to pox and she is pregnant, her titres are low etc, etc. Her toddler gets pox from the OP's son because he has no immunity either. That's a risk. What if another parent has a family member who is going through chemo, and they think it's okay to visit when they are harboring pox and don't even know it.
Yeah... hooray for natural immunity/exposure....but sick is sick is sick, whether it be pox, strep throat, flu. It's rude, unsafe, and irresponsible not to let other's know around you that you or your children are sick.

I am all about delaying and selecting vaxes and don't get the chicken pox. But when I recently had DD2 someone held her and kissed her even though they had an active case of shingles. This still infuriated me and scared me. I want her to get exposed at some point but as the parent it's MY RIGHT to decide that time....not someone elses who thinks I "shouldn't live in a bubble".

While I agree w/ almost all of what you're saying (my kids got pox when my hubby had shingles and we didn't know it was shingles until spots started)

particularly the stuff about just sick is sick is sick- I agree it's respectful if we know our child is/might be sick to let poeple know.

However- I have to disagree that it's "your right" to decide when it's time to expose your child to an illness. Unless you keep your child away from all human/animal contact- you will never be in full control of such things obviously. I get what you're saying and I understand the frustration- but life is what it is and people will get sick and we won't alwasy be able to know if our kids have been exposed to something.

[MyBoysBlue]

My one son got the CP. The older one was vaxed for it. I have no Idea how the younger one got CP. We didn't come in contact with anyone who had it that we know of. I did tell the neighbour lady that her boys may have been exposed because my DS had it and the play together but I didn't tell her my son's vax status. That was irrelevant, kids are still getting it even if they are vaxed for it all the time.

[Mama25]

Originally Posted by runes

Question: Do parents who vaccinate their children with live virus vaccines always tell others that their children could possibly be shedding?

Vaxing is an intentional exposure, too, you know.

This situation and some of the responses just goes to show the incredible double standard that exists. It's ok to intentionally expose a child to a disease via a needle at a doctor's office, but a natural exposure to a disease carries the risk of being a social pariah.

Vaccine marketers have done a good job.

I hadn't thought of it this way! It is so true, vaccine makers have done a good job.

[kalimay]

"It has nothing to do with people keeping their children in a bubble. THese parents have the right to know the risk. It's just as common of a courtesy as saying...."oh little jimmy has the flu so you may not want to let your toddler around if you don't want him getting sick. It's rude to assume that you, as the parent of a sick child, has no responsibility in telling others the risk.
What if one of the local mom has no immunity or low immunity to pox and she is pregnant, her titres are low etc, etc. Her toddler gets pox from the OP's son because he has no immunity either. That's a risk. What if another parent has a family member who is going through chemo, and they think it's okay to visit when they are harboring pox and don't even know it.
Yeah... hooray for natural immunity/exposure....but sick is sick is sick, whether it be pox, strep throat, flu. It's rude, unsafe, and irresponsible not to let other's know around you that you or your children are sick."



I agree with this. If I had intentionally exposed my child to CP I would not let them share spit covered toys with a 6 month old unless I had let their parents know my child might be contagious.
If my child had been given a vax that I knew could shed I would use the same caution. I would be very careful with diaper changes and I also would not risk them exposing a six month old.
If I did not know the risks to the other child and family, yes CP is no biggie for most kids but it can be serious for some people, it seems like common courtesy to let them decide if they want their child exposed.
As for what to tell them after the fact, I am not really sure but I think if it were me I would come clean.

[mamakah]

I am not afraid of chicken pox, and would not panic if my child caught it. Having said that, I agree with previous posters that you should have kept kids away from other children after being exposed. When I made the choice not to vax, I also made the promise to society that if my child is sick/exposed that I will do what EVERYONE who is sick or has a sick child should do and "quarantine" them. I don't mean lock them in the house, but I do mean avoid play dates, public places where germs can easily be spread, etc.
If we non vaxers want people to respect our decisions, then I think it is necissary to respect their fears/decisions. We may all feel/know that CP is not scary, but some are terrified of their LOs getting it. Who are we to choose whether or not it is ok for their child to get?
I think you will definately get some people angry at you for this. Had you not exposed other children, I would say "who cares what they think?" but the fact that you exposed other children without even the courtesy of letting parents know really urkes me.
Non vaxers are always given the "irresponsible" label. Our children have been dubbed "typhoid marys" otherwise known as disease carriers and spreaders. I hate to say it, but you just demonstrated this as true to all the pro vaxers out there. I am not saying I agree with them, but it basically fuels their argument.
I am not trying to be harsh on you. Really. More than likely the older kids that you LOs were around are vaxed (not that they won't get it), but you now have a responsiblity to tell all childrens parents that there is a chance that your children have CP. There is no need to say you deliberately exposed them. That is noones business. If someone asks just say " We have been around a lot of children lately..." Like I said, there is no reason to say you deliberately exposed your children, and then in turn theirs.
Good luck.