How pushy were your doctors? - Page 3

[MeepyCat]

Zuzunel - wow, ditch that book. There's plenty of recorded instances of induction for physician convenience, or maternal request. Everything from "my OB was leaving on vacation..." to "I just couldn't stand to be pregnant anymore" to "my husband was about to be deployed."

[littlebb]

Originally Posted by zuzunel09

Ok, so the book I actually checked out is called "THE Best Birth", not YOUR Best Birth, and it's by a Sarah McMoyler who touts her own, eponymous method of dealing with pain during labor. She basically advocates moving around during labor, birth balls, squatting, holding onto your husband, and making moaning sounds. That's all well and good, but she's a former L/D nurse and says things like "no OB would ever dream of inducing a woman who wasn't in critical need of it" etc. She also says doulas should know their place and that you aren't going to win any awards for a natural childbirth.

Can I just say that I HATE it when people say this? You don't win any medals for paying taxes and not killing people, either.

Yeah, totally different approach than the Lake/Epstein book. I am so happy they approached the book the way they did. I figured it would be more about HB since that's what the BOBB was focused on. I am planning a HB so that would've been great for me, but I think the women facing hospital births for various reasons need a boost in getting closer to the type of birth they want, so I'm really glad they focused more on how to make this happen for ALL women, not just homebirthers.

[RealLifeDad]

Originally Posted by zuzunel09

Anyway, I guess what you're all saying is, get a spine.

Seems that way, doesnt it? We havent been through it yet, but I have already had to talk our OB down after he asked us if we had any questions.

He didnt like my questions.

I didnt care.

My wife appreciates that I have her back. It's really a no brainer really, he will have my entire families lives in his hands, I'd like him to know who he is working for.

[JudiAU]

A lot of HMOs have a CNM option? Does yours? You'll find that they are generally more willing to stand by and allow the natural process to take place.

A woman in labor shouldn't need to advocate forcefully for herself. I couldn't have and honestly, my DH is wonderful but not that guy. He respects the white coat too much and he has a terrible time watching me in labor. Can you have a doula or a friend experienced with natural birth help out.

And sometimes interventions *are* necessary for a safe birth. We all know that. Which is why it is helpful to have an experienced advocate with you if you don't like or trust your OB. Labor doesn't always go according to plan.

[SandraS]

I went into the hospital each time and told the nurses and doctors to leave the room, I would let them know when to catch.

I refused monitoring, all internal exams, and IVs. I ate and drank. I did what I wanted. I didn't have an issue once.

I was very kind and firm in my wishes. They could not do anything against my will. There's nothing they can do to you that you didn't LET them do.

It was glorious!

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by SandraS

I was very kind and firm in my wishes. They could not do anything against my will. There's nothing they can do to you that you didn't LET them do.

There are women here who had doctors cut episiotomies without even telling them...and others who saw the scissors and said "no", and got cut, anyway. I had a c-section performed, while I went into transition, saying "no - I don't want a c-section".

They absolutely can do things to you, even if you don't "let" them.

[SandraS]

Then the best place to be, if you can't get assurance from your doctor that they will follow your every wish, is at home.

I made sure my doctor knew the hospital well, and she ensured that the team on staff each time I was there followed my wishes. If I didn't have that comfort level, I'd find a new doctor/hospital or stay at home.

[jess152]

Know your 'enemy'...educate yourself as much as possible. Two things I thought I did but didn't do.

I did not research any aspect at ALL of c-section, and it turns out my hospital has a 44% c/s rate, and guess what side I ended up on. I went 8 days overdue and the dr. threatened me with stillborn baby, low amniotic fluid and big baby/small pelvis, so bullied pretty much into a c/s for the following morning.

Had I researched it, I'd know that the small pelvis is an often-diagnosed problem that can rarely be substantiated. Same with overdue, it's just an estimate, same with amniotic fluid levels by ultrasound...the techs best guess, really.

Good luck! Read everything you can get your hands on. At least going in armed with all the knowlege you can, you are far better off.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by SandraS

Then the best place to be, if you can't get assurance from your doctor that they will follow your every wish, is at home.

I made sure my doctor knew the hospital well, and she ensured that the team on staff each time I was there followed my wishes. If I didn't have that comfort level, I'd find a new doctor/hospital or stay at home.

I'm really glad it all worked out for you, but the reality is that women have been abused by doctors, even though they were "assured" that said doctor wouldn't behave that way. Doctors can't "ensure" that staff are doing what the patient wants, unless the doctor is actually there the whole time, and that's often not the case.

I had total comfort with my doctor the first time. Unfortunately, someone I'd never met decided to cut me before my doctor even go there.

I'm really not trying to be argumentative, but your posts here are coming across in a very "if anything bad happened to you, it's your own fault" way, and for those of us struggling with birth trauma, that's kind of hard to take. You had a doctor who actually was what he/she appeared to be - that's great. Many women don't have that happen...and when you're already in labour is a bad time to find out you're not dealing with the person you thought you were, yk?

Oh - and I stayed home with my last one...for a long time. I was totally comfortable with it, and it was also glorious...at first. Unfortunately, things didn't end up so well, and I had a c-section, and my baby died.

[SandraS]

Do you want me to say there's nothing you can do, that docs will do what they want, regardless of your wishes? That wasn't my experience, and I answered the OP's post as she asked.

I'm sorry it didn't work out for you. I'm sorry others didn't have it work out for them.

It worked for me. And dozens of other women I know. Because they did what I said - made sure their doc was on board and made their wishes known.

I answered the OP. I'm sorry if you disagree. It is what it is. I'm not going to sit here and say you can't have a great hospital birth because all docs are insensitive and mutilate you and whatever. Didn't happen that way for me.

I'll back out now, clearly a positive experience is not what's being looked for here.

[Fyrestorm]

Originally Posted by gentlehandsdoula

You need to understand that you are legally able to refuse any intervention - it is called "informed consent".

Know your hospital..know the nurses and the doctors and the CNMs. It might be the only way to protect yourself and the babe from harm.

In some hospitals, the second you walk through the door, you lose all of your rights.

In some hospitals if you continue to refuse to consent...they can and will just get a court order to do whatever it is they wish to do...

The other thing they do is make threats.."we'll call CPS if you don't consent to XY or Z because you are putting you child at risk. If you want to have access to the baby in the next few weeks, you'll let us do this or CPS will take the baby"

It can happen to you..I never thought it could happen in a free country. But it happened to me and I knew my rights. I stood up for my rights, had a HB transfer, a doula and 2 midwives...and it still happened.

You have to GRILL your OB. It's your right to birth how you want...you need to know without a shadow of a doubt that your OB will allow it.

[MegBoz]

Originally Posted by SandraS

Do you want me to say there's nothing you can do, that docs will do what they want, regardless of your wishes?

I know that question wasn't directed at me - but I just want to say I see all sides of the discussion here.

You CAN get "assurance" from your HCP that they will honor your wishes... but then things change when labor actually starts. So Mamas need to do a little more thorough investigation.

Personally, I don't think docs LIE when they say they are friendly to NCB & then behave otherwise. I think they really don't realize how they interfere & they are too scared to be hands-off. As Dr. Marsden Wagner writes, "Fish can't see the water they swim in." They ARE trying to help - they are just going back to old habits - they are practicing they way they know how to practice, and that is also they way they think is best for the baby.

That is why I think it's important to ask very open-ended questions and find out HOW your HCP normally practices as opposed to asking IF your HCP is willing to do what you want. Cuz the latter is where they may deviate from what they've told you once you're in labor (again, because they are doing with they think is best.)

Additionally, most MDC mamas recommend a doula, laboring at home as long as possible, other steps like requesting a nurse friendly to NCB, etc.

So... in other words... it takes some work to get a good hospital-birth experience and it is about MORE than just getting "assurance" from your doc. Even THEN, it can still go wrong. Of course, on the flip side, it COULD go fabulously even WITHOUT a doula & all that other stuff - but most of us don't want to gamble that we will luck-out.

[guestmama9916]

After my first birth with a large OB practice at a hospital that wasn't so natural birth friendly, I did some research to find out which doctors in my area were ok with natural birth. It seems the large majority of doctors are annoyed by natural birth. So I emailed several doulas in my area to find out which doctors they recommended. Several of them came back with the name of the same doctor. I interviewed him and used him for 2 years as my GYN before becoming pregnant. He has been fantastic. Even though the birth of my DD ended up becoming a medically necessary induction for pre-e (instead of the HB with MW I had planned), I got pretty much what I could have hoped for in that situation. I got natural birth friendly nurses that did not offer an epi once and kept telling me how great I was doing managing the pain. OB was ok with delayed clamping/cutting of the cord, no episiotomy, not breaking my water until I was ready because I wasn't progressing, etc. He talked to me on the phone at length the night before my induction over concerns I had with which cervical ripening method we should use. At my 6 week check-up, he said he was honored to be my doctor and to be present at the birth of my DD. He always takes his time to answer my questions. His practice is smallish but seems to be growing I noticed at my last appt. He delivers over 90% of his patients so my chances of having him attend the birth of my next baby are really good. Having the right OB can make all the difference in the world. Having a natural birth friendly hospital can too. However, if you are stuck in a situation where you don't have either and there's no chance you can change OBs/hospitals, then it will be critical to have a doula or a knowledgeable friend to advocate for you. I found my DH to be way too excited and emotional to be a good advocate for me so you may not be able to depend on your DH during the big moment. It would be best to find someone that doesn't have an emotional attachment to you like the massage therapist or a doula. Another suggestion is to make sure the person you pick to be your advocate is dependable. I picked someone that was still in training to save money and she didn't end up staying to see me through the birth because something came up. I don't think a professional doula would do that to a mama.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by SandraS

Do you want me to say there's nothing you can do, that docs will do what they want, regardless of your wishes? That wasn't my experience, and I answered the OP's post as she asked.

No - that's not what I want. I'd like an acknowledgement that blaming people for having been abused by their doctors is out of line.

It worked for me. And dozens of other women I know. Because they did what I said - made sure their doc was on board and made their wishes known.

That's great. But, that doesn't always work. It just doesn't.

I answered the OP. I'm sorry if you disagree. It is what it is. I'm not going to sit here and say you can't have a great hospital birth because all docs are insensitive and mutilate you and whatever. Didn't happen that way for me.

Sorry. Where did I say that you can't have a great hospital birth? I didn't say it and I didn't mean it. I've talked to plenty of women who have had great hospital births. My objection, as I stated pretty clearly, is to the "you just have to do this, and everything will be glorious" tone of your posts. Once again, there's a strong tone of "if anything goes wrong, it's your own fault" there. I'm not sure from your posts, but it sounds as though your labours proceeded fairly well. If that's the case (and I'm not saying it was - just that's the impression I got), you really don't have any conception of what it can be like when things aren't proceeding to the staff's satisfaction.

I'll back out now, clearly a positive experience is not what's being looked for here.

What's being looked for here is honest answers to how pushy doctors were. That's not the same thing as "you only get stuck with a pushy doctor if you're too stupid/weak/ignorant to ensure that you don't get one". It's also not the same thing as basically saying it doesn't matter, because, no matter how pushy they are, they can't do anything you don't let them do. I'm glad you had a positive experience, but that doesn't mean anyone can guarantee that any particular woman will have the same.

Getting a supportive doctor is great...but that's not the same thing as saying they "can't" do anything if you don't let them. Doctors do things to labouring women, over those women's objections, every single day. Your posts here are pure victim-blaming. I can't believe you took from my posts that positive experiences aren't "being looked for" or that nobody can have a great hospital birth. I didn't say either, nor is that what I meant.

[meganmarie]

you aren't going to win any awards for a natural childbirth.

Sure you are. Its called the "Didn't get cut open with a knife" award.

My #1 reason for wanting natural childbirth was that it was the best way to avoid interventions that might lead to surgery.

[JennTheMomma]

My OB or nurse wasn't pushy at all. He actually perfers natural births since they're the easiest for him. And he hates c-sections and episiotomies and all that. They were all very compassionate. The next birth will be at home, so it'll be a little different, but I'm looking forward to it. I have nothing bad to say about my first birth or my OB. He was truly amazing.