How do you pick a puppy within a litter? *Update in first post* - Page 3

[~PurityLake~]

Originally Posted by *Aimee*

Another breeder we've looked at http://www.dkvrottweilers.com/HomePage.htm leaves tails, as most of his dogs are shipped to Europe where docking is illegal.

Wow. Nice website. It's nice to see rotties as they are supposed to be.

[Girl In The Fire]

You could get a Rott and Dobe - from an ethical breeder - in the US, and request no docking or cropping. You just have to find the breeder who breeds more for the European "market" than the American.

:

Another thing to consider is the AKC is not the end all and be all of kennel clubs in the US. Different clubs can and do have different standards that may allow a natural tailed dog to be shown.

As far as the UKC being a joke... I don't think it is any more of a joke than the AKC can be. There are things I like and dislike about both the AKC and UKC, however, in the UKC judges tend to judge the dog rather than who is holding the leash. What a novel concept!

[lexapurple]

I disagree with momof8 that if breeder did not dock tail he or she is irresponsible. Even AKC standard says that tailset in Rottwieler is more importatnt that length.

There are breeders who are not interested in " beauty pagents" and they breed for working abilities, health and temperment. Do their dogs look like like AKC champions? No, but it does't mean that breder didn't do neccesery testing or socialization.
I know a German Shepherd breeder who breeds for Schutzhund and Search and Rescue. She imported her original dogs from Belgium police kennels and her dogs are not AKC regestered and don't look like AKC German shepherds but her dogs are asome. She does all nessecery health testing and socialization for her dogs and she is comfortable placing her dogs in families with children or with people who are sereous about working with their dogs.
I found a breeder of miniature poodles who doesn't show and doesn't dock but does all of necessery testing. She was comfortable talking with me about problems she had in her line and how she would take puppies back if something is wrong with them. Her dogs are companions and therapy dogs but they also have nice proportions and coat because she used to show and cares about breed standard. And what is wrong with imported dogs?
I am sure that if you know what you are looking for in the indivigual dog and what to look for in the breeder you can find right breeder.


I don't post here much but lurk if I see interesting topic and a lot of times I become frustrated because there are people on this forum who use it to inflate their ego. They learned something from one source and are not willing to exept that there might be something else they dont know.
My experience with a lot of show breeders and handlers (not all of them) make it seem to me that thoose people been running in the ring for so long that the AKC ring became their universe and they can't see beyond it and forget that there is life and quality dogs beyond AKC.

[*Aimee*]

I really don't want to be involved in all the back story drama that is totally going on. I'm just looking for a dog.

I've spent a ton of hours in the past 2 weeks looking for rottweilers. Some of these places dock some dont. I'm more concerned about temperament than anything else. If anyone would care to share with me a breeder of rottweilers or German shepherds that they think is a good breeder I'm more than happy to look in to it. Helping is better than criticizing.

The rottweiler people havent even returned my emails yet so I don't even know if it's possible at this point.

Thanks to everyone who offered helpful suggestions, I really appreciate it.

[lilyka]

i haven't read much of this thread but man, those husky sheaperd puppies are cute.

I am not completely opposed to getting a puppy from people getting rid of an oops litter. granted their dog needs to be spayed or neutered but those pups are going to end up at the humane society (hopefully) if they are not adopted by someone and I am a huge fan of the mutt. I would be careful about how much you pay the owner though so as not to encourage them. and remember, there is no such thing as a free puppy. the ones from shelters come with full vet care, worth far more than their adoption fee.

There is a really great book called "the art of raising puppy" by the monks of new skete. while they are reputable breeders (some of the best dogs in the world IMHO ) they also think a mutt can be a very good dog. they go into great detail about temperment testing and finding a dog that is right for you (there is no best temperment. it is all about finding a match).

be sure you check out the dogs temperment several times. you never know, something may be up with a dog on any given day. we thought our pup was super mellow. turns out she was near death. it took her several months to recover (she woiuld have still been near death 48 hours later we would have just noticed the fever and mellow would have become complete and total listlessness). then once she recovered she was 100% puppy terror cuteness but it took weeks for her to perk up. but check temperment more than once. all sorts of things can effect a puppys mood.

[*Aimee*]

Update in first post

[Frogmorest]

Dutch Shepherd = very much NOT a lazy dog. Not a couch potato. Quite high drive and will HAVE TO BE WORKED a lot. Close to constantly. Are you prepared for that? From your first post I'd say this is not the breed for you honestly.

Have you ever considered a collie? An Australian Shepherd? A corgi?

[*Aimee*]

Yes, I know. We told the breeder that we would only consider a dutch shepherd if he had a lazy one he didn't want for drug training, so not very likely but just wanted to throw that out there.

I'm not interested in a herding dog at all. Everything I read about Australian Shepherds said they are horrible for people with small children so we didn't get one. My mother's corgi bit anyone and everyone and was very into herding children.

[Krisis]

My parents have an Australian shepherd and man I hate that dog. It barks constantly, it's uglier than sin and so fat! No amount of exercise gets the weight off that awful dog. She's just mean. Bark bark bark bark.

I love the look of Aussies, they are so stinkin' cute when they are puppies and if you can keep them from becoming a pig-dog (which is what I call my parent's dog!) then they are great looking dogs. But after being around Luna, no freaking way. She is too spazzy, nippy/herdy and hyper and DEAR LORD THE BARKING.

[Ola_]

Originally Posted by *Aimee*

Yes, I know. We told the breeder that we would only consider a dutch shepherd if he had a lazy one he didn't want for drug training, so not very likely but just wanted to throw that out there.

Keep in mind that a lazy dog to someone who does drug training is not a lazy dog to most people.

I'm not interested in a herding dog at all. Everything I read about Australian Shepherds said they are horrible for people with small children so we didn't get one. My mother's corgi bit anyone and everyone and was very into herding children.

I'm not sure about the specific lines, but most shepherds have some herding drive - that is the original purpose for many of them. You'd definitely want to ask about that and observe them at their home (i.e. where they are comfortable and acting like themselves) yourself.

[Frogmorest]

both Dutch Shepherds and German Shepherds are herding dogs.

I've had corgi's for YEARS and never have encountered a viscious one. Ever. Same for Collies. You do have to train them to not nip and herd children but Bella our rough collie baby is 4 months and already trained out of that. Dedication to training ANY DOG is necessary.

You need a mellow dog. Ever thought of an older retired showdog of your chosen breed?

[*Aimee*]

I'm not going to be posting to this thread anymore. I greatly appreciate all the helpful advice I got.

I'm glad you've never seen a vicious corgi but seriously my moms was not even allowed in 3 different vets for attacking people.

I have studied and read up on German and Dutch shepherds. I'm not about to spend 1500-2000 dollars on something I know nothing about. DH grew up with German Shepherds, ones from the breeder we're going through.

I've been posting on this forum for a few months while going through my search for dogs, and every dog I've found someone here had something horrible to say about whatever dog we've chosen.

While I understand needing a mellow dog, we need a dog that can keep up with us. We walk 2 miles every morning, DH goes on a run when he gets home, and we are at the park almost all day in the summer (dog friendly parks). We have a large fenced backyard as well. That's a lot for a dog to keep up with.

I used to work with pitbull rescues, and at one time had 3 6 month old rednose puppies. Pitbulls, especially rednose, are extremely active. I also rescued fighting dogs, so I know a bit about prey drive and mouthiness in a puppy. For a few years I also had 2 pitbull rescues and a rottweiler. All were puppies at the same time.

I'm not stupid and I have researched this for over a year. I've been posting here out of excitement but it seems people more just want to put people down or (in other posts, not just mine) explain why they shouldn't get whatever dog they have, or that they can't handle a puppy for whatever reason and it's frustrating. I came here because I'm excited about getting a dog after a year of waiting for DH to come around and be ready. Instead people just feel more like trashing my choices and it's just knocking me down and taking away from what should be a happy time for us! We're adding to our family!!

So, again, thank you to those with helpful suggestions and I won't be posting anymore updates.

[Sailor]

Yes, a lazy Dutch Shepherd or a lazy GSD - it's a bit of an oxymoron. Lazy compared to the ones who do work ... but lazy compared to anything else - no way.

My GSD is from working dog lines, and we're in SAR ... in the mornings we run anywhere from 6 to 10 miles per day. In the afternoons, we go to the dog beach and play fetch for an hour. In between all of that we do training.

If I miss running or fetch or training, it is hell trying to keep him calm inside. He has to get all his energy out or else he'll get into mischief. And he'll get into mischief on purpose, to get you to play with him.

Now, my dog is not a "lazy" GSD ... he's meant to be a working dog. And he is. But, even a more mellow one is still a VERY high energy dog. They require a lot of time, training, and exercise.

GSD's also herd - they'll do it as puppies to members of the family. They're one of the mouthiest breeds as well, and every GSD owner I know has the scars to prove that, lol. Again, not aggressive in biting ... just mouthy, but puppy teeth are sharp.

If your husband had one before, though, he must know all this. I'm just throwing this out there in case you really want a couch potato dog. A GSD is not the way to go if that's the case.

ETA - Ooops we posted at the same time. I don't think anyone meant any offense. We're just swapping information. Me - I just like talking about my dog, lol, cause I'm obsessed with him. Plus, I love GSD's - they're great dogs.

[Frogmorest]

Aimee: I think the thing is that you change your mind about what type of dog you are getting seemingly EVERY SINGLE DAY. That's a huge red flag to me.

And I find it amusing that you are basing the temperment of an entire BREED (corgi) on one dog. ONE DOG.

You ask for opinions.. you get them.

[lilyka]

My dog is a german sheperd/aussie something herding breed. she is a maniac but its endearing to us mouthy little beast but not aggressive. she has only shown aggression once and that was to a man in my home that she didn't know. I was uncomfrtable and she could tell. she still stayed right by me though and didn't approach him at all. she mouth wrestles, its her thing, but she knows better than to try it with the kids. it is our game. and all. this from a dog who is way under worked and poorly trained (as I hang my head in shame). She would probably be spectacular if I put the effort in.

my point is that just because there is something such as high energy or mouthyness or barking (some mentioned the barking, if I could trade in one really bad trait of my dog it would be the incessent barking. she barks and barks and barks, heck of a watch dog but man it gets old.) that doesn't automatically rule any breed or dog out. but then I don't expect breeding or genetics to give me the perfect dog. like I said, I got some serious mutt love and for better or worse Lucy is our baby and she is sooooo one of us She is in no way the breed I would have chosen (I wanted a german shepherd and despite her listing saying she is part GSD I doubt it is much except for the whole mouthiness thing, I remember that from my shepherd as a kid, man that was a great dog but even though I was barely a baby I remember him using his mouth like a hand but I could ride that dog, hook him up to my trike and make him pull me and he took it like it was his pleasure to serve. my mom used to trust him to take carfe of me in the woods. Brutus the Mutus. great dog. . . ) so Lu is not the breed I would have chosen, I was looking for something mellow but she is the most perfect dog on the planet, the worst dog on the planet but practically perfect in every way :

you sound like you have a lot of experiance with dogs and puppies and know what you are up against. I would just find what you are looking for and go for it. honestly, I think you are over thinking things.

[SevenVeils]

Originally Posted by mom0810

Darn it! In trying to edit this post to add more to it, I copied the post from above. So now it's lost.

But suffice it to say, calling someone who has never bred their own AKC champion and who has never won a BIS or BISS, or who has never been named "breeder of the year" by their parent club, "one of the Best breeders in the US" just because they didn't crop ears and because they spent a lot of time writing and explaining things on MDC.... is ridiculous and hilarious. How many dogs has this person bred that have finished AKC championships? UKC? (which is a joke) How many champions finished? How many obedience titles? Agility titles? Herding titles? Tracking titles? Yeah, "best breeders in the US" Okay.

No club in the US considers ear cropping or tail docking cruelty. That's just silly talk. If it's your opinion, then fine. But it's not the opinion of the clubs here who are in charge of the futures of their chosen breeds. If you don't like tail docking, don't buy a docked dog. Ear cropping? same thing. Ear cropping is a bit different, as a pet owner can request this not be done since it's done at 8 weeks or so. But good luck getting a GOOD Rottweiler or Dobe or Boxer without a tail in the US. Usually if they still have their tails, it's a sign of negligence by the breeder, not ethics. And it's a sign that they couldn't afford to have it done. Not good.

She has indeed bred her own AKC champions. And etc. And whether or not a club considers something cruelty has no bearing on whether or not it is cruel.

[Ola_]

Originally Posted by *Aimee*

While I understand needing a mellow dog, we need a dog that can keep up with us. We walk 2 miles every morning, DH goes on a run when he gets home, and we are at the park almost all day in the summer (dog friendly parks). We have a large fenced backyard as well. That's a lot for a dog to keep up with.

Just keep in mind that you should not do long walks on hard surfaces (i.e. streets or sidewalks) and certainly no runs until the dog is at least 2 years old and their joints have matured.

I'm not stupid and I have researched this for over a year. I've been posting here out of excitement but it seems people more just want to put people down or (in other posts, not just mine) explain why they shouldn't get whatever dog they have, or that they can't handle a puppy for whatever reason and it's frustrating. I came here because I'm excited about getting a dog after a year of waiting for DH to come around and be ready. Instead people just feel more like trashing my choices and it's just knocking me down and taking away from what should be a happy time for us! We're adding to our family!!

I'm sorry that you don't feel your choices are being supported. I think most of us just want to help and choosing the wrong breed can be a real disaster. I learned the hard way having more dog than you expected is very stressful so I guess I'm trying to help others avoid that. FWIW I thought a rottie would be a great choice for your family.

[lilyka]

Originally Posted by Ola_

Just keep in mind that you should not do long walks on hard surfaces (i.e. streets or sidewalks) and certainly no runs until the dog is at least 2 years old and their joints have matured.

hey thanks for posting that. I had no idea.