Dr. says alcohol while pregnant o.k.! - Page 5

[Sailor]

Originally Posted by belltree

I really wonder, where people get this information from. I don't know a single woman in Europe, that has been pregnant in the last 10 years, that drank during her pregnancy. Also, the standard guidelines in most (all?) European countries advice against drinking any alcohol during pregnancy.

Also, could you point me to the study you are referring to, that states, that European's have a lower FAS rate. And even if it is not FAS what are the rates for FAE?

Every been to eastern Europe? A lot of drinkers there.

Specifically, Poland. I have two doctors in the family, and they tell their patients drinking in moderation is OK. Pretty much every woman in my family drank during pregnancy - again, in moderation.

It's just not a taboo where I come from. I'm sure it varies from country to country in Europe, but I've never seen such a taboo against drinking there as I do in the US.

[Talula Fairie]

I found some more info

http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/Fet...lSyndrome.html

this is the thread that went over the whole thing in more detail, especially about cultural attitudes toward drinking in Europe:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1058907

[belltree]

I know a lot of eastern Europeans drink a lot. I have some Polish relatives and still, the women do not drink during pregnancy.

Thank you for your link. But again, it only talks about FAS and not FAE. I agree, one drink once in a while won't cause FAS, but what are the chances for FAE, if people drink about a drink a day. And don't forget the size of a drink is different for different countries.

I am just really surprised that alcohol is seen with such a laissez fair attitude, while chemical sunscreen and other things are damned by the majority.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by belltree

Thank you for your link. But again, it only talks about FAS and not FAE. I agree, one drink once in a while won't cause FAS, but what are the chances for FAE, if people drink about a drink a day.

Good question. What are the chances? Lots of my mom's contemporaries drank when they were pregnant (I was born in '68). I can't remember the symptoms of FAE, but I did read about it quite a bit a few years ago, and I do recall that none of the children of those women ever exhibited any of those symptoms. (I don't know if any of this applies to me. I doubt if my mom drank when she was pregnant, as she didn't much like to drink, but I suppose it's possible she had an occasional beer.)

I'm personally not so much "laissez faire" about alcohol, as I'm of the opinion that taking a "I'm not taking the risk of a single drink" attitude is...odd. If there is any risk to "a single drink", it's never been demonstrated, either through research or anecdotally. Certainly, many, many women - even those who won't drink during pregnancy - have consumed some alcohol in the early weeks, before knowing they were pregnant. As others here have pointed out, there have been many cultures where drinking alcoholic drinks (albeit fairly low alcohol, by percentage) has been the norm, for various reasons. The resultant epidemic of FAS/FAE babies that one would expect, if an occasional drink is so very dangerous, doesn't seem to have materialized.

I guess my feeling about it is that the few times I've had a drink while pregnant, I've never thought about it as "taking that chance". I don't believe I was taking any chance, and nobody has ever told me what chance (or risk or whatever) it is I'm supposed to have been taking by having a drink. They just say I shouldn't take it.

[Talula Fairie]

Originally Posted by belltree

I know a lot of eastern Europeans drink a lot. I have some Polish relatives and still, the women do not drink during pregnancy.

Thank you for your link. But again, it only talks about FAS and not FAE. I agree, one drink once in a while won't cause FAS, but what are the chances for FAE, if people drink about a drink a day. And don't forget the size of a drink is different for different countries.

I am just really surprised that alcohol is seen with such a laissez fair attitude, while chemical sunscreen and other things are damned by the majority.

What is FAE? I have never heard that term before.

I gave you several links and examples, quite a few of them did in fact go over alcohol exposure in general, especially this one:

http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/Fet...lSyndrome.html
which says:
Is there a safe or acceptable level of alcohol consumption for pregnant women?

A large study examined 400,000 women in the U.S., all of whom had consumed alcohol during pregnancy. Not a single case of fetal alcohol syndrome occurred and no adverse effects on children were found when consumption was under 8.5 drinks per week. 3

A review of research studies found that fetal alcohol syndrome only occurs among alcoholics. The evidence is clear that there is no apparent risk to a child when the pregnant woman consumes no more than one drink per day. 4

A study of pregnancies in eight European countries found that consuming no more than one drink per day did not appear to have any effect on fetal growth. A follow-up of children at 18 months of age found that those from women who drank during pregnancy, even two drinks per day, scored higher in several areas of development. 6

An analysis of seven major medical research studies involving over 130,000 pregnancies suggests that consuming two to 14 drinks per week does not increase the risk of giving birth to a child with either malformations or fetal alcohol syndrome. 7

Negative effects appear to be related to relatively higher levels of consumption per occasion, and hence, to higher blood alcohol content levels. Thus, it appears to be very important never to consume more than one drink in any one day while pregnant. 8

And the other link from which I quoted did specify the size of drink and exact amount of exposure AND the resulting FAS results of different US and European studies. Read the entire link if you're curious. The standards on what makes a drink a drink is universal as far as I know: 1 ounce of hard alcohol, 4 ounces of wine or 8 ounces of beer = one drink.

I do not think saying "it's ok in moderation" or "very light drinking is ok in pregnancy" --especially considering several people mentioned doing quite a bit of research on the matter-- = "laissez fair" attitude.

Everyone on MDC has different opinions on different things, many people do not consider alcohol to be equivalent to, say, unnatural chemicals proven to cause cancer. I personally use the chemical laden sunscreen at times and I've yet to see threads here about sunscreen, but I haven't really looked for them. From what I've noticed, a lot of people have researched each and every choice they make, be it sunscreen or alcohol during pregnancy. And I've yet to see people "damn" something.

[minimunklemama]

Originally Posted by belltree

I really wonder, where people get this information from. I don't know a single woman in Europe, that has been pregnant in the last 10 years, that drank during her pregnancy. Also, the standard guidelines in most (all?) European countries advice against drinking any alcohol during pregnancy.

Also, could you point me to the study you are referring to, that states, that European's have a lower FAS rate. And even if it is not FAS what are the rates for FAE?

Seriously,how many women in Europe do you really know?
I grew up in the UK (left at 26)knew plenty of pg woman during that time that had the okay from their doctor to drink.I lived in Switzerland,Austria,Germany and France at some point in those years and again knew a lot of pg woman( I was a Nanny so I was around a lot of women) I remember being up in the Austrian mountains drinking gluhwein with my boss and her pregnant friend.Again,doc had said it was fine.
And have you checked every European countries guidelines?besides,they are GUIDELINES,not something that you need to stick to like glue.

I get so annoyed with people bashing pg women having a drink now and again.Especially when people say things like "if I can't go nine months for the sake of my baby then I have a problem" It is not a problem,It is enjoying something that you normaly enjoy,you have been told that it is fine,pregancy is not an illness/condition where you need to avoid all of these thing.
Yeah,Tuna,I get it,the mercury levels are high etc.but a small glass of wine now and again....

[Quindin]

I too think it is offensive with all the comments saying such as: " If I can't wait 9 months, than there is something wrong with me" or "I don't drink because I care about my baby" Why say these things when SEVERAL moms herenhave shared how they do have the occasion wine?

Originally Posted by pixiekisses

I don't live in Sweden.

That was an example
You said that Denmark is the Scandinavian country that is different from all the rest...

[Brisen]

Originally Posted by belltree

I am just really surprised that alcohol is seen with such a laissez fair attitude, while chemical sunscreen and other things are damned by the majority.

I don't see it that way at all. I see a lot of women here making informed choices about things like sunscreen and alcohol. Some will come to the conclusion that sunscreen is unsafe, or that the benefits of moderate sun exposure outweigh the risks; some will decide that sunscreen is the safest option. Same with alcohol during pregnancy. Some women will decide that an occasional drink isn't harmful or something to worry about; some will decide any alcohol is a risk and so avoid it.

[Talula Fairie]

Originally Posted by Brisen

I don't see it that way at all. I see a lot of women here making informed choices about things like sunscreen and alcohol. Some will come to the conclusion that sunscreen is unsafe, or that the benefits of moderate sun exposure outweigh the risks; some will decide that sunscreen is the safest option. Same with alcohol during pregnancy. Some women will decide that an occasional drink isn't harmful or something to worry about; some will decide any alcohol is a risk and so avoid it.

:

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by Brisen

I don't see it that way at all. I see a lot of women here making informed choices about things like sunscreen and alcohol. Some will come to the conclusion that sunscreen is unsafe, or that the benefits of moderate sun exposure outweigh the risks; some will decide that sunscreen is the safest option. Same with alcohol during pregnancy. Some women will decide that an occasional drink isn't harmful or something to worry about; some will decide any alcohol is a risk and so avoid it.

:
I remember three straight nights without sleeping when I was pregnant with ds1. I had horrible insomnia and no idea why. I finally decided I needed something to help me sleep, and rather than a sleeping pill (OTC or otherwise), I chose a drink of alcohol. It's more than a bit annoying that people think there must be something wrong with someone for not "being able" to go without a drink. I could have - but I chose not to, after thinking it over...a lot... (I also chose to have a drink a couple other times, not because I "couldn't" go without it, but because I didn't see any risk involved in toasting a friend's wedding or having a drink to celebrate my last day of work. And, you know...it's been 16 years since I had that baby, and I still don't see where there was any risk.)

[pixiekisses]

Originally Posted by Quindin

That was an example
You said that Denmark is the Scandinavian country that is different from all the rest...

Nope. I said Denmark was different from where we live. Period. I didn't even really mention any other country.

[darcytrue]

I've also heard that drinking wine is okay during pregnancy, but I don't think I'd drink more than 1 glass per day (IF that much). But I'm not much of an alcohol drinker when not pregnant.

[Theoretica]

Wow this thread has taken a personal turn it seems! Can we agree there are cultural differences and variances of personal experiences to each person's point of view? I think the original point of the thread was just a clarification of getting medical advice that it's ok to have a drink occasionally during pregnancy. Sure, if that makes you uncomfortable then clearly don't do it! However, some respect for the FACT that an occasional alcoholic beverage isn't going to cause problems any more than an occasional nitrate laden hoagie, or an occasional chocolate cake and ice cream binge, or an occasional fast food bonanza, or an occasional "insert any other vice" etc etc etc.

Sure, it might not be for you. I totally get that. But there are women who ARE comfortable whether for social, cultural, personal, or medicinal reasons. Riding a sanctimonious high horse does nothing to engender support or encouragement and just divides groups into the 'shoulds' and 'shouldn'ts'.

Here's the OP:

Dr. says alcohol while pregnant o.k.!
Have you heard this before? My cousin is pregnant and was openly drinking wine at her sister's graduation party last weekend. When asked she said her Dr. said on glass/drink a week is fine and won't hurt the baby! WTF!?! I have not heard this and have two young boys of my own, one born last August. I thought this theory had been proven way wrong long ago.

My midwife did tell me a glass of beer may help induce labor but only to be considered if I were to go over 41.5 weeks, I went over but never drank. But to have a drink every week of pregnancy to me is crazy, would you give your baby a drink every week? I think not.

Anyone else heard of this?

Maybe it's advice given out in the mainstream medical community, a community I stay far, far away from.

OP, my midwife and my doula both actually suggested an occasional drink as a way to relax and unwind. The ONE time I had an OB I was told 'never touch the stuff, any amount can cause problems". Clearly my midwife and doula (who barely know each other) aren't suggesting anyone go on a drinking binge, but it's not that big of a deal and is presumed that, like every other experience in life, moderation is the basis of common sense.

[JayJay]

Ah, I seriously don't think that one drink is going to harm a baby.

I had a stressful night last night and probably would have had a glass of wine, expect that right now my stomach can't handle it. Additionally, I am the partner of an ex alcoholic and I don't drink in his presence because I want to support him.

Over here in the US (I am originally from the UK), they same you can only use saline nasal spray as well. In the UK, things like Afrin (Otrivine) are considered fine in normal doses. The only study I've ever found with adverse effects from Afrin was a study involving one woman who took Afrin six times in 15 hours, and then showed signs of an elevated heartrate which was also shown in her baby, at about 35 weeks (as far as I remember). The baby was born shortly afterward with apgars of 9 and 10. Another study involving numerous women in the third trimester showed no effects at all in mother or baby when Afrin was taken at the correct dosage.

Yet, doctors still don't recommend Afrin. If I didn't take it from time to time, I wouldn't be able to breathe - I always have serious pregnancy rhinitis. Same goes for my mother, who had to take it from time to time during all five of her pregnancies.

Anyway there we go. I am so nauseated right now that I couldn't drink anyway. But ther we go

*HUGE hugs* XXX

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by darcytrue

I've also heard that drinking wine is okay during pregnancy, but I don't think I'd drink more than 1 glass per day (IF that much).

I personally wouldn't consider more than one drink a day to be "light" drinking, during pregnancy or otherwise. Most medical guidelines I've read recommend no more than one drink a day for women (non-pregnant) and two drinks a day for men (difference due to larger average body mass, and different biochemistry). They usually then go on to say than having more than that occasionally is okay, but that more than...four (I think?) drinks on any one occasion qualifies as binge drinking. Going by those guidelines, I don't think more than a drink a day could be considered "light" drinking, yk?

(Obviously, those guidelines overlook cultural factors. If on happens to live in a culture where drinking more than that in a day is normal and widespread, classifying it as binge drinking, in any but a strict physical sense, is a bit over-the-top.)

[Talula Fairie]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

I personally wouldn't consider more than one drink a day to be "light" drinking, during pregnancy or otherwise. Most medical guidelines I've read recommend no more than one drink a day for women (non-pregnant) and two drinks a day for men (difference due to larger average body mass, and different biochemistry). They usually then go on to say than having more than that occasionally is okay, but that more than...four (I think?) drinks on any one occasion qualifies as binge drinking. Going by those guidelines, I don't think more than a drink a day could be considered "light" drinking, yk?

(Obviously, those guidelines overlook cultural factors. If on happens to live in a culture where drinking more than that in a day is normal and widespread, classifying it as binge drinking, in any but a strict physical sense, is a bit over-the-top.)

I read it's three or more drinks to be binge drinking, and that 5 or more drinks per week is considered "heavy drinking" by medical professionals. I'm not 100% sure about that though.

[Quindin]

Originally Posted by pixiekisses

Nope. I said Denmark was different from where we live. Period. I didn't even really mention any other country.

Actually you said...

Originally Posted by pixiekisses

Yeah, Denmark is probably like that. They have a completely different attitude to alcohol than other Scandinavian/Northern European countrys. The Denish drink alcohol with their breakfast, lunch and tea. Younger people are allowed to buy alcohol than where I live.
But in my Northern European/Scandinavian country, and our neighbour countrys there is absolutely a no-alcohol during pregnancy policy and norm, and nobody does it.

Back to regular scheduled programming

[pixiekisses]

Originally Posted by Quindin

Actually you said...

Oh yes, actually. I blame the sleep deprivation.
Just bc I didn't specify I think, and didn't mean to.

[fyrebloom]

Everything in moderation I say! I don't drink more then 1/2 a drink if I have any at all, but with my son I had an irritable uterus and I would drink 1/2 a beer or 1/2 a glass of wine to stop the contractions. With my twins, well they were twins, the ute rebelled. I drank less but I still had some on very rare occation. My kids are all highly gifted, my three year old is starting to read and write and do arithmatic.

[*Erin*]

a glass of wine or beer occassionally is fine!! now, i see lots of pregnant mamas slugging back diet soda-that makes me nervous...that's some badness, diet soda....