Are there any studies on autism/neuro disorders in kids who have been vaxxed on a delayed schedule?

[ACsMom]

I have a 3.5 y/o little girl who RREEEAALLY wants to go to "school." She's smart and she's really outgoing and sweet and she's ready. I would love to send her. Trouble is, I can't afford to send her to the one or two private schools around here that are relaxed on the vax requirements. She has had none, as of yet. My husband and I are trying to decide what to do, and we've been talking about starting her on a delayed, drawn-out schedule just so she'll meet the minimum requirements. I am extremely conflicted about this, though, for a ton of reasons that lots of people here articulate, so I won't go into it all....but just wondering if anyone knows of any studies that look at kids who are on a delayed schedule and how they fare.

Thanks!!

[Gitti]

A little OT, but why not just send her to a public school and apply for a religious exemption? We did and have never had any problems with it.

A religious exemption can be based on a simple 'home' religion, or a personal belief.

[Gitti]

Oh, I also meant to say, she is probably so healthy, outgoing and intelligent because her system has not been messed around with.

She is a "natural child".

I hope you keep her that way.

[peainthepod]

I agree with Gitti. Get a religious exemption--they are available in NC.

http://www.vaclib.org/exempt/northcarolina.htm

[KimberlyD0]

Dependent on your state if your determaned not to get her vaccinated you can get a religious or personal exemption.

Originally Posted by Gitti

Oh, I also meant to say, she is probably so healthy, outgoing and intelligent because her system has not been messed around with.

She is a "natural child".

I hope you keep her that way.

My children are exactly the same. They are both deleyed vaxed children. 0 issues with either. Some children are just naturally like that

The medical issues we have with our youngest are not from the vaccinations, but her congenital malformation.

[ammiga]

I wouldn't vax just so she can go to school. Even if she doesn't develop autism, think of the lifelong problems she could get as a result of having her immune system messed with... asthma, eczema, allergies, MS... why not just do public school and get an exemption?

If that's not an option, I wouldn't let a 3 year old dictate that she gets to do something that all my research shows is unhealthy. She may be happy with that now, but will she be in 20 years? I hate that I am vaxed, and have several health issues that I believe are from my childhood vaxes.

[ACsMom]

Originally Posted by ammiga

I wouldn't vax just so she can go to school. Even if she doesn't develop autism, think of the lifelong problems she could get as a result of having her immune system messed with... asthma, eczema, allergies, MS... why not just do public school and get an exemption?

If that's not an option, I wouldn't let a 3 year old dictate that she gets to do something that all my research shows is unhealthy. She may be happy with that now, but will she be in 20 years? I hate that I am vaxed, and have several health issues that I believe are from my childhood vaxes.

I've had health issues, too, not stemming just from my vaccinations as a child but it's likely that was one factor. It's the reason why I didn't allow any baby vaccines (in my opinion it's irresponsible to stuff tiny babies full of vaccines) and won't with the next one. I'm not letting my 3y/o dictate anything, but I am responding to her desire to go, and I would like to provide that opportunity for her. I've thought about the religious exemption, which would be a simple way to deal with the issue. My problem is that I'm conflicted. There are some vaccines I would actually feel better if she had, but I don't want her to have all the ones the schools would require (i.e. chickenpox, hepB - please.) The problem is that once you give one, obviously you can no longer claim your religious exemption. It's all or none. I'm not sure I'm comfortable with none. I know I'm not comfortable with all. On the other hand, there are a lot of shots she's already missed and will never get (HIB, pc). So if I start her on a schedule now, she'll end up with approximately the same number of vaccines that kids get in, say, Denmark, where autism/brain injury rates are far lower than here. Plus she'd be starting much later in life than most kids. Or, to play devil's advocate with myself, maybe she'd be one of the unlucky kids who has a genetic immune quirk and all it takes is one shot to mess up the works. I've done a good bit of research and I'm still conflicted. I know my problem is one that tons of mothers struggle with - I know I'm not alone, here. So anyway...

Maybe the question I should be asking is, of those of you who haven't vaxed at all and have your kids in public school, have you ever had any problems? Any outbreaks of diseases the other kids are all supposedly vaxed for? Any worries/fears about that? Thanks for listening....

[ammiga]

Have you read "How to Raise a Healthy Child... In Spite of Your Doctor", by Dr. Mendelsohn? It really put most VPDs into perspective for me, and made me realize that most of them were no big deal, especially in healthy children. In fact, many of them help to make the immune system stronger! It might help you to ask about any diseases in particular that you are afraid of and address them one at a time. Personally, when we did that, I couldn't find many VPDs that actually scared me (assuming dd was healthy). What scared me were all of the things I couldn't vax for (not that I would) and things that were caused by the vaxes.

I probably can't answer most of your fears, because autism was not even close to my largest concern when it came to the decision not to vax, and that seems to be your largest (sorry if I'm mistaken). In terms of how people in school were with VPDs, you can start by looking at the ones that you weren't vaxed for and thinking of the horror stories you heard or didn't hear when you were in school.

[EVC]

Maybe the question I should be asking is, of those of you who haven't vaxed at all and have your kids in public school, have you ever had any problems? Any outbreaks of diseases the other kids are all supposedly vaxed for? Any worries/fears about that? Thanks for listening....

My dd is the same age as yours and goes to a public preschool. Before that she was in daycare (starting at 10 months). She is unvaxed and very healthy. We've had our share of colds, coughs, runny noses, and ear infections, but never anything worse. I am 100% comfortable having her unvaxed and in preschool. If anything, I think she has an easier time fighting off all the pre-school illnesses BECAUSE she is unvax'ed.

[brendaziz]

Originally Posted by ACsMom

I've had health issues, too, not stemming just from my vaccinations as a child but it's likely that was one factor. It's the reason why I didn't allow any baby vaccines (in my opinion it's irresponsible to stuff tiny babies full of vaccines) and won't with the next one. I'm not letting my 3y/o dictate anything, but I am responding to her desire to go, and I would like to provide that opportunity for her. I've thought about the religious exemption, which would be a simple way to deal with the issue. My problem is that I'm conflicted. There are some vaccines I would actually feel better if she had, but I don't want her to have all the ones the schools would require (i.e. chickenpox, hepB - please.) The problem is that once you give one, obviously you can no longer claim your religious exemption. It's all or none. I'm not sure I'm comfortable with none. I know I'm not comfortable with all. On the other hand, there are a lot of shots she's already missed and will never get (HIB, pc). So if I start her on a schedule now, she'll end up with approximately the same number of vaccines that kids get in, say, Denmark, where autism/brain injury rates are far lower than here. Plus she'd be starting much later in life than most kids. Or, to play devil's advocate with myself, maybe she'd be one of the unlucky kids who has a genetic immune quirk and all it takes is one shot to mess up the works. I've done a good bit of research and I'm still conflicted. I know my problem is one that tons of mothers struggle with - I know I'm not alone, here. So anyway...

Maybe the question I should be asking is, of those of you who haven't vaxed at all and have your kids in public school, have you ever had any problems? Any outbreaks of diseases the other kids are all supposedly vaxed for? Any worries/fears about that? Thanks for listening....

I just wanted to say that I totally know how you feel and the whole "all or none" thing has alwasy bothered me. My son is now 5 and entering K in the fall and when it came down to it- I had to do what I felt greater peace with.

I decided with none- b/c there is just no way personally that I can feel comfortable w/ all- so none it is.

You just have to figure out what you feel comfortable with. And I hope that you find peace in your decision- b/c being in a constant state of worry/panic/stress is not an enjoyable way to parent. Not that all parts are enjoyable though

Whatever you choose- you seem like you obviously care very much about your dd and she is lucky to have u as a mommy

[KimberlyD0]

vaccinations don't have to be an all or nothing thing. Many people successfully do selective vaccinations. What might help is knowing what types of exemptions your allowed where you are. If there is a personal one for example then you could very well use that for the vaccinations you don't feel comfortable with.

Autism is extreamly low (non existent really) on my reasonings for selective/deleyed vaccinations.

My first I was more freely able to pick and choose what and when because she is such a healthy child. Even with the vaccines she has she's still one of the healthiest children in her class (been in daycare since 14 months because I have to work) She also was formula fed.
My second we've been more inclined to vaccinate closer to a normal schedual and with more vaccines. She will get the flu, RSV and Pnamonia ones for the next few years for example, because she is in a different risk range then my older one, and then most children. She already has enough and is one of those children who would have a more adverse reaction should she get one of these VPD then my first, so thats been a big factor in how we've decided things. She is BF (over a year now but she has a congenital malformation that decreases her immune system. The 4+ years of research I put into vaccinations (which I still continue) has proven to me that for her, she is at a much higher risk from the VPD then from the vaccinations themselves.

If after researching you still feel more comfortable selective or deleyed or not vaccinating you have ways of doing all of them. Research what your options are for all routes as well and you'll probably get a clearer picture.

[emma1325]

I am in a similar position as you. I feel that my 5 year old would *probably* do just fine with the handful of shots that are required for school...but on the other hand, I have this sneaky suspicion that vaccines can sit in a body and eventually cause cancer and other chronic conditions. So I'm going to have to go with my gut on this one and keep vaccines out of her system, even if it would make it easier for her to go to school here in Mississippi.

[Deborah]

This discussion is a good example of how wrong-headed the vaccines to go to school mandates actually are.

There are many parents who would like to do some, but not all vaccines. In states with a philosophical exemption parents can make that choice. In states with a religious exemption, depending on the wording, parents either have to lie about their beliefs or skip vaccines they would actually like to give. Or give vaccines to their child they feel are unnecessary or dangerous.

Vaccines are too invasive to be appropriate for mandates. Infectious disease can be dangerous, but vaccines are not our only choice for handling disease--and we all know that vaccines can be dangerous, too.

All or nothing is stupid, from the public health point of view. Giving people freedom of choice would result, probably, in a few more vaccines being given, plus more accurate numbers on who was vaxed for what, since parents wouldn't be forced into dishonesty about their children's vaccination records.

[ACsMom]

Originally Posted by EVC

My dd is the same age as yours and goes to a public preschool. Before that she was in daycare (starting at 10 months). She is unvaxed and very healthy. We've had our share of colds, coughs, runny noses, and ear infections, but never anything worse. I am 100% comfortable having her unvaxed and in preschool. If anything, I think she has an easier time fighting off all the pre-school illnesses BECAUSE she is unvax'ed.

Do you claim an exemption? In my area all the preschools ask about vaccines; some of them are okay admitting your child if you've at least started them; some won't let you in without the full schedule. Even the summer camps here want to know about the vaccines. I'd probably have to produce exemption paperwork to get her into a 1-week camp. Her other activities - soccer, yoga, dance - stuff she does once a week that I'm there with her for, there's no vaccine questions with that. But anything she could do without me for a couple hours....they wanna know. I guess I could claim the exemption for preschool and take it from there. She can't go to Kindergarten until fall of '11, so I have plenty of time if I do decide to start the vaccines, and there's no reason why her elementary school would know I claimed an exemption for preschool. Even if they did know, who cares, right?

[Jugs]

Originally Posted by KimberlyD0

vaccinations don't have to be an all or nothing thing. Many people successfully do selective vaccinations. What might help is knowing what types of exemptions your allowed where you are. If there is a personal one for example then you could very well use that for the vaccinations you don't feel comfortable with.

In states without a philosophocal exemption (like thr OP) vaxes are all or nothing because religious exemptions apply to the practice of vaccination as a whole, not certain vaccines.

OP: If you aren't comfortable vaxing her just to send her to preschool, why not look into other options like library programs, Mommy & Me type things, MOPS groups, etc?

[EVC]

Originally Posted by ACsMom

Do you claim an exemption? In my area all the preschools ask about vaccines; some of them are okay admitting your child if you've at least started them; some won't let you in without the full schedule. Even the summer camps here want to know about the vaccines. I'd probably have to produce exemption paperwork to get her into a 1-week camp. Her other activities - soccer, yoga, dance - stuff she does once a week that I'm there with her for, there's no vaccine questions with that. But anything she could do without me for a couple hours....they wanna know. I guess I could claim the exemption for preschool and take it from there. She can't go to Kindergarten until fall of '11, so I have plenty of time if I do decide to start the vaccines, and there's no reason why her elementary school would know I claimed an exemption for preschool. Even if they did know, who cares, right?

Yes, we filed an exemption. (Although we live in a state with philosophical exemptions, so that likely makes the whole thing a lot easier). As for a religious exemption--well, religious views can change over time and the religious doctrine you follow (or claim to follow) today, may not be the one you follow three years from now, ykwim? So a religious exemption now does not lock you in for life,, should your feelings on the matter change at some point.

[suschi]

Originally Posted by ACsMom

Maybe the question I should be asking is, of those of you who haven't vaxed at all and have your kids in public school, have you ever had any problems? Any outbreaks of diseases the other kids are all supposedly vaxed for? Any worries/fears about that? Thanks for listening....

I stopped all vaccines in Sept 1999 when they all but killed my then 7.5 month old. That meant my then 4 year wouldn't be getting the "boosters" required for school entry, so he was first child entered into school with a religious waiver. (My first two were 12 & 15 and had gotten all required shots up to that point)

My 5th child born in 2002 remains vaccine free, and is the healthiest of all, only a handful of colds in 6 years, very mild. Am I finally witnessing an immune system operating the way in which it was intended and not skewed via vaccine?

My 3 children in school with exemptions are now 14, 10 and 6. None have caught any vaccine available diseases, except my 14 year old who did get chickenpox in spite of getting the vaccine.

14 year old hasn't had a shot since he was 4, 10 year old hasn't had a shot since that 3rd round he got in 1999. No outbreaks of disease and my children have never been sent home due to any outbreak. As far as their school knows, my children are not vaccinated.

Vaccines mess up the immune system, plain and simple.

[EVC]

In states without a philosophocal exemption (like thr OP) vaxes are all or nothing because religious exemptions apply to the practice of vaccination as a whole, not certain vaccines.

Although....I have heard of people filing a religious exemption and secretly doing selective vaxes (you have to make sure you're not in the vax registery and be careful about any papertrail from your ped's office, but apparently it is possible to do).

[KimberlyD0]

Originally Posted by EVC

Although....I have heard of people filing a religious exemption and secretly doing selective vaxes (you have to make sure you're not in the vax registery and be careful about any papertrail from your ped's office, but apparently it is possible to do).

Some also do religious exemptions to certine vaccines because they disagree with how its made. The whole aborted fetus thing for example.

We have selective medical because of issues with certine vaccines, there is medical for some because of allergies (eggs for example) and not others.

There are ways. You just need to find them, and use them currectly.

[Jugs]

Originally Posted by EVC

Although....I have heard of people filing a religious exemption and secretly doing selective vaxes (you have to make sure you're not in the vax registery and be careful about any papertrail from your ped's office, but apparently it is possible to do).

Depends on how the state's vaccination registry is operated. In several states, reporting vaccnations given is required, and a growing number of states do not allow an opt-out option. So basically, sure you could vaccinate "on the sly"... but only until the school confirms the child's vax record with the registry; then the religous exemption is null and void. North Carolina is one of the states that does not allow citizens to opt-out of the registry.

Some also do religious exemptions to certine vaccines because they disagree with how its made. The whole aborted fetus thing for example.

We have selective medical because of issues with certine vaccines, there is medical for some because of allergies (eggs for example) and not others.

There are ways. You just need to find them, and use them currectly.

You're in Canada; its a whole other ballgame than much of the US. The fetal tissue issue alone is not sufficient grounds for a religous exemption, as it is actually more a philospophical view in nature. Plus again, it would mean picking and choosing certain vaccines, as not all are made with cell lines.