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DD's saw something they should not have - Page 4

post #61 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by LionLady13 View Post
I agree BIG difference. I would like to hear views on women that DID have fathers who participated in the sexual exploitation of women and hear how that affected them. The daughters of Dad's who had playboy's and penthouses lying around, that I knew growing up don't have the healthiest sexual role-models now (ie: either are totally anti-sex or are a female chauvinist pigs/ porn users themselves)......
Well I wouldn't say my father participated in the sexual exploitation of women, but he did have Playboy, Penthouse, Hustler & Porn movies in our house. Early on, I started looking at them (7-8 yrs old) & I noticed a distinct difference between the magazines. My dad was not happy about me seeing these but we talked about it. When I looked at Playboy, I saw beautiful women. I didn't like looking at the other 2 so I stopped. I looked at the Playboy magazines for quite a while afterwards & always thought the female body was beautiful. I even strated reading the articles as I got older. Around 13, I started watching some of my dad's porn movies. It was just basic curiosity. I saw a few & then stopped.

As an adult, I don't watch or look at porn & neither does my DH. Seeing this stuff regularly as a child didn't affect me negatively in the slightest. I have a very healthy relationship with sex. Now if I had had seen my parents having sex OMG I think I would be seriously tramatized.
post #62 of 81
Thread Starter 
Quote:
The fact that the OP told her kids that sex is something that occurs between people who are in love I feel is avoiding the truth...the truth most people don't want to face
Of course I was avoiding the truth. They are 7 and 5 years old, they have plenty of time to learn the truth about sex, porn, stds, etc. For now, the simplest answer is to say it's what married adults do. Why make them think about it any more than needed? If I told them these people were PAID to do this, it would definitely make my daughter obsess over it. That would be shocking to a young child.
post #63 of 81
Just curious- does your husband own his own business? Just asking because most employers would/could possibly fire someone for viewing porn on a company computer.
post #64 of 81
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pjs View Post
Just curious- does your husband own his own business? Just asking because most employers would/could possibly fire someone for viewing porn on a company computer.
It's not a company computer.
post #65 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amylcd View Post
Of course I was avoiding the truth. They are 7 and 5 years old, they have plenty of time to learn the truth about sex, porn, stds, etc. For now, the simplest answer is to say it's what married adults do. Why make them think about it any more than needed? If I told them these people were PAID to do this, it would definitely make my daughter obsess over it. That would be shocking to a young child.
I don't know your daughters, so I obviously can't speak for them but I'd imagine they might be wondering now or later on why these people are being sexual on the internet (this probably only applies to the older one since she has a better understanding of such things). If mommy and daddy are in love and have sex then do they make videos of it and post them on the internet? If not, why not? She may not have such an active imagination, though, so your answer might have been good enough. Also, most young children (if they haven't been sexually abused) do not have any preconceived notions about what is "right" and what is "wrong" when it comes to sex. She probably doesn't know that it's "wrong" to be paid for having sex or for exposing yourself on the internet. She might find it strange, but that sense of "wrongness" or shame probably isn't there yet. In my experience from what I've seen in others and myself, people only obsess if they see something as wrong.
post #66 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahimsa_in_action View Post
I don't know your daughters, so I obviously can't speak for them but I'd imagine they might be wondering now or later on why these people are being sexual on the internet (this probably only applies to the older one since she has a better understanding of such things). If mommy and daddy are in love and have sex then do they make videos of it and post them on the internet? If not, why not? She may not have such an active imagination, though, so your answer might have been good enough. Also, most young children (if they haven't been sexually abused) do not have any preconceived notions about what is "right" and what is "wrong" when it comes to sex. She probably doesn't know that it's "wrong" to be paid for having sex or for exposing yourself on the internet. She might find it strange, but that sense of "wrongness" or shame probably isn't there yet. In my experience from what I've seen in others and myself, people only obsess if they see something as wrong.
But the OP's children didn't see people having sex. They saw some partially blocked pictures of naked women. Totally different.
post #67 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubfam View Post
But the OP's children didn't see people having sex. They saw some partially blocked pictures of naked women. Totally different.
They were still sexual in nature, though, so it could be seen as such (especially given the OP's reaction). The porn magazine I saw when I was 5 only had pictures of naked women in it, but I knew it was sexual given the way they were posing.
post #68 of 81
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Originally Posted by Mama.Pajama View Post

Hmm. I don't know about the rest of the married women in the world, but this sounds like a dictatorial and impractical solution. I wouldn't ask my husband to not look at porn- I might ask him to safeguard his computer a little better, but asking him to not look at porn is something an overbearing mother would say to little Timmy when she caught him with a Playboy in the guest bedroom! Not really something a wife ought to say to a husband...
Maybe I'm just sick.
I think that its easy to say something like that, just as its easy to say that having a "no alcohol or drugs" in the house is dictatorial, and something Timmy's mom would say. But what about alcoholics? Drug addicts? I happen to have had relationships with not one but TWO people who used computer porn to replace relationships with peers at a young age, and were PHYSICALLY addicted/dependent as adults. Its a quiet addiction. Nobody knew. But the longer it went on the harder it was to stop. The one person could not function sexually without it.

And what about personal morals? What about the porn industry itself? I grew up with a couple girls who came from "rough" childhoods, with drug addiction and abuse. With very little education and no money for college, they got jobs as strippers, "escorts" and making low budget porn movies. One went to work as an "international hostess" and no one ever heard from her again. There is a price to pay for peoples "home entertainment." If you wouldn't want your own mother or daughter having sex for money on camera, why would you want that for anyone else? Of all the girls I knew that worked in this "industry," if they felt that they could survive doing any other kind of work, I'm sure they all would have chosen a different lifestyle
post #69 of 81
oops nevermind, OP already answered my question!
post #70 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoringTales View Post
Or you could just say, "No porn in the house with small children." Seems like the easiest answer to me.


Except when you work with it.

Or happen to enjoy viewing it.

It's not that hard to explain porn to kids, and it's not traumatic for them to accidentally see some. We always explained sex as something people do for fun AND (sometimes) for babies, and I've explained porn as pictures and movies of people doing sex-related things, that lots of people enjoy watching because it gets them in the mood to have sex.

It's not the end of the world, OP, and it sounds like they were pretty unphased. Don't worry about it.
post #71 of 81
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Originally Posted by HisBeautifulWife View Post
Oh my goodness, it's degrading to have a no porn rule? Of all words to use
I feel that it's degrading to make rules for your spouse.

To be honest, if I had to set rules for my spouse to live by, I wouldn't be able to respect him. I'm his partner, not his parent.
post #72 of 81
Haven't read all the replies, but even with a 'no porn' policy, kids can accidentally stumble upon it. Dd got a 'pixel chix' toy for a gift. If you don't know, it's a plastic toy with a digital image of girl in it- you have to do certain things to keep her happy- feed her, play with her, etc. You could get several of these things and they would 'interact' with each other when their houses were connected. I didn't care for them, but dd loved them, so we let her keep them.

She was just learning how to internet search- had recently found disney, nickjr, etc., and innocently googled 'pixelchicks' and porn came up. She looked at it and said she though it was 'cool'. We told her if that ever happens again, to let us know and close the window and we'll help her. We were nearby when it happened, so she didn't see for too long, but a few days later, she drew a naked picture at school (she was a 2nd grader at the time). So, phone call home- I had to explain what had happened- they didn't punish her at school or anything, just had to call me and let me know.

So, 'no porn' is a very simplistic, naive way of fixing the problem, IMO, as the porn dd found wasn't anything that had been saved or accessed from a drop down menu or anything like that. Also, while at school, looking up reading and literacy sites, *I* accidentally found porn. At an elementary school- with TONS of firewalls. It can happen.

So, telling them not to use things without permission, and to come to you if they see naked people is the best you can do.
post #73 of 81
I think it sounds like you handled it very well. I have answered so many questions from my 7 yr old about sex and making babies in the past four months that I'm starting to get sick of it.
post #74 of 81
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it's not traumatic for them to accidentally see some.
Really? I'd be wary of making such a sweeping assertion without any argument or evidence to back it up.
post #75 of 81
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Originally Posted by Amylcd View Post
Well, I definitely want them to know the facts about this subject. I just didn't expect them to see it. They already knew the basics about it, because of the whole "where do babies come from" talk. I just added on that sometimes couples in relationships do it for fun too (and not just to get a baby). I never want sex to be a taboo subject, when they are older I hope they can talk honestly with me about their feelings. I think making it something shameful or something that is never talked about will do much more harm than good. I think I did ok by telling them it is something adult couples in relationships do, and that it's for adults only. They seemed to accept that.
That's good. I think you did the right thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoringTales View Post
I guess I just don't *get* making it 'safer' for your husband to get off on a bunch of other women. As long as your kids don't see it, it doesn't effect your family....oh yeah...unless your kids see it.

Some things you can't 'unsee'. Seeing porn at a young impressionable age can have lasting effects JUST like sexual abuse can. Not something I'm willing (or my husband is willing) to risk with kids in our house.

Forsaking ALL others for us really means forsaking ALL OTHERS.
Except for that watching other people have sex is something humans have done throughout history. It's not some demonic freak-of-nature act that should be silenced and hidden, whether you approve of it or not- that's no way to treat any issue, with children or adults.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Thisbirdwillfly View Post
I'm not clear why it would be "impractical" unless a person had an addiction to porn.
By impractical, I meant that it is impractical to forbid your husband from doing something. If you have house rules for your husband, you are wearing the proverbial pants, and it is no longer an equal partnership: it is a dictatorship.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quickbeam View Post
Actually, in this particular instance what they saw was not grown ups in happy, loving relationships. They saw people getting paid to be naked/have sex. Again, not sure how much detail you want to go into with them or what you'd like to accomplish, but thought I'd put this out there for clarity's sake.
Yeah, probably not the details you want to discuss with a 5 and 7 year old, but good point nonetheless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GalateaDunkel View Post
I dunno. It seems like some of us see a difference between "kid knowing that mommy and daddy do it" and "kid knowing that daddy likes to watch pictures of strange young women having it done to them, by a bunch of different guys, in every possible way." YMMV.
That's a pretty blunt way to characterize one who views porn. Anybody know that statistics on what percentage of our partners/husbands (and heck, us too) regularly or even occasionally view pornography?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amylcd View Post
When I first wrote that post, I was freaking out because I did not know how much they had seen, etc. Now I'm more calm. Again, I'm okay with porn in general - not okay with my kids being exposed to sexual activity.
OP, I think your thread has become the victim of a pro-porn vs. anti-porn debate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2xy View Post
Loving couples have sex. Sex is something done out of love. Sometimes sex is something people do out of biological urges and love isn't involved at all. People have been watching each other have sex for millenia.
Yes, it is. Do people know this? I'm sure the people who are outraged by "allowing" their partner/husband to look at porn would argue "Well people have been murdering each other for millenia too so does that make murder okay?"

I think the point is that adults have been engaging in this activity peaceably for millenia, however "naughty" it may be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LionLady13 View Post
I would like to hear views on women that DID have fathers who participated in the sexual exploitation of women and hear how that affected them. The daughters of Dad's who had playboy's and penthouses lying around, that I knew growing up don't have the healthiest sexual role-models now (ie: either are totally anti-sex or are a female chauvinist pigs/ porn users themselves)......
Wow. A stark demonization of porn viewers! I think Lionlady, your views are referencing the sex industry itself, not the act of voyeurism. There are, of course, real legitimate qualms to be had with the industry, but I think it is the voyeur that is under the microscope in this debate, not the sex industry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oursonend View Post
The fact that the OP told her kids that sex is something that occurs between people who are in love I feel is avoiding the truth...the truth most people don't want to face. We're a sex-obsessed society.
This is true, no doubt. But not an age-appropriate discussion for a 5 and 7 year old.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oursonend View Post
Children are sexual beings who will one day be very interested in sex, if they're not already. If my kids were to find porn on the computer I would tell them the truth...that these people are not in love, they are simply enjoying the act of sex for the pure pleasure of it or simply to make money. This will, at the very least, give them the foundation to better understand sex and how society sees it.
IMO, I think 5-7 year olds are too young for such an explanation. The need only know the simple facts about what they saw, which according to OP, wasn't much more than breasts and a lady bent over.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oursonend View Post
Lastly, if my kids were to one day become interested in pornography I would let them watch something basic and not too hardcore, so that it becomes normal. If mom treats it as normal then so will they, more than likely. They probably won't become obsessed with it or feel ashamed if they happen to see it.
Hmm. In order to normalize sex, I wouldn't do that. That seems like a "line" in my own mind that is best left crossed by my child alone. Sexuality is a very individual thing, and I wouldn't want to go beyond instilling morals (i.e. rape, abuse, incest are wrong).
I don't think sex should be miscommunicated- it is something we do in our bedrooms behind a closed door, isn't it? It is a private thing, and by private I mean we don't do it in the checkout lines at Target.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oursonend View Post
One more thing--what's so wrong with having sex solely for pleasure? I know a lot of moms on here are Christian, so it's natural coming from your religious upbringing to frown upon that but how different is it from the "routine sex" that often occurs between people who've been married for a long time or the sex that's had purely for the sake of making babies? I see a lot of women on here and other forums totally fixated on becoming pregnant...basically using their husbands for their sperm, it seems. They might be "in love" with their husbands, but that doesn't feel to me to be loving sex.
laughup I find this hilarious. I have had very similar thoughts!


Quote:
Originally Posted by nudhistbudhist View Post
I think that its easy to say something like that, just as its easy to say that having a "no alcohol or drugs" in the house is dictatorial, and something Timmy's mom would say. But what about alcoholics? Drug addicts? I happen to have had relationships with not one but TWO people who used computer porn to replace relationships with peers at a young age, and were PHYSICALLY addicted/dependent as adults. Its a quiet addiction. Nobody knew. But the longer it went on the harder it was to stop. The one person could not function sexually without it.
I think you are coming from a perspective of a person who has personal experience with sex addicts. Coming from a person with personal experience with alcoholics and drug addicts, I think it's important to take into account that not all people are sex addicts, and are able to view porn without becoming so, just like there are a lot of people who can drink without becoming alcoholics. I know that people can also experiment with drugs without becoming a junkie.

Demonizing something or advocating abstinence from something only serves to add allure to the behavior in question and to entice addictive personalities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nudhistbudhist View Post
And what about personal morals? What about the porn industry itself? I grew up with a couple girls who came from "rough" childhoods, with drug addiction and abuse. With very little education and no money for college, they got jobs as strippers, "escorts" and making low budget porn movies. One went to work as an "international hostess" and no one ever heard from her again. There is a price to pay for peoples "home entertainment." If you wouldn't want your own mother or daughter having sex for money on camera, why would you want that for anyone else? Of all the girls I knew that worked in this "industry," if they felt that they could survive doing any other kind of work, I'm sure they all would have chosen a different lifestyle
So you are saying that every woman that chooses to use her body to make money is a victim? I don't think this is accurate at all. A very good friend of mine is an exotic dancer, and she literally enjoys what she does.
As another before you mentioned, there are legitimate issues to be had with the sex industry. The issue we are discussing is the act of voyeurism. If they had a Fair Trade stamp on porn, I'm sure we'd all make the informed decision, but until such regulatory measures have been instated, one will have to trust that American-made pornography is subject to regulations that prevent underage participation, etc. Google it.
post #76 of 81
As for the issue of kids being exposed to sex and it being traumatizing or scarring or whatever, think about the settlers living in one room cabins/covered wagons/etc? What about even just 50 years ago when the houses were TINY and there was no late night tv to drown out 'extra' noise? And what about areas of the world where populations live in huts and tiny villages and multigenerational families all sleep/eat/live in one room?? Kids have been aware of and around sex for hundreds and HUNDREDS of years and life continues without massive populations of children damaged by exposure to sex. I think the OP handled it well, and the less of an issue that's made out of it, the better. What a way to hand kids a complex...make an issue out of a NORMAL bodily function. Leave it to a 'modern nation' to have such a hang up about a basic activity!
post #77 of 81
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Originally Posted by Theoretica View Post
As for the issue of kids being exposed to sex and it being traumatizing or scarring or whatever, think about the settlers living in one room cabins/covered wagons/etc? What about even just 50 years ago when the houses were TINY and there was no late night tv to drown out 'extra' noise? And what about areas of the world where populations live in huts and tiny villages and multigenerational families all sleep/eat/live in one room?? Kids have been aware of and around sex for hundreds and HUNDREDS of years and life continues without massive populations of children damaged by exposure to sex. I think the OP handled it well, and the less of an issue that's made out of it, the better. What a way to hand kids a complex...make an issue out of a NORMAL bodily function. Leave it to a 'modern nation' to have such a hang up about a basic activity!
ITA. I remember a scene in the Grapes of Wrath (i.e., setting is 20th century United States) and Rosasharn (the pregnant teenage daughter) has sex in the presence of her extended family (under the hay in a wagon they all were traveling in, if I recall correctly... I read it almost 20 years ago!) and no-one bats an eyelash. I am not sure if that is an accurate reflection of life under those conditions, but I assumed it was, and it was an eye-opener for me to read/think about. I think it says that our attitudes about sex are a product of our environment/upbringing and not some kind of immutable truth. (That's sex - not porn. I have seen porn images I really, really wish I could un-see...)
post #78 of 81
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Originally Posted by Mama.Pajama View Post
IMO, I think 5-7 year olds are too young for such an explanation. The need only know the simple facts about what they saw, which according to OP, wasn't much more than breasts and a lady bent over.
Maybe, maybe not...it really depends on the kids and their maturity level. By the age of 7, I was very interested in sex, but so far had only been given a book on how babies are made and when I said the word "dick" out loud with my parents around soon after reading it, my mom made it clear that I shouldn't say that word. So, needless to say, I was very confused by sex and had plenty of questions but didn't feel I could ask them. If it was me at 7, I'd probably wonder why that lady was bent over in such an odd manner (since we don't see people doing that in the checkout lines at Target ) and why it was posted on the internet (since, being 7, I haven't seen anything like that on the computer, or anywhere else, before). It leaves a lot to the imagination, in my opinion, and, depending on their maturity level, I would give them as much of the truth as they can handle (similar to what *I* said previously, not "oursonend"). Why beat around the bush (no pun intended) when it'll probably just create more questions, not less?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mama.Pajama View Post
Hmm. In order to normalize sex, I wouldn't do that. That seems like a "line" in my own mind that is best left crossed by my child alone. Sexuality is a very individual thing, and I wouldn't want to go beyond instilling morals (i.e. rape, abuse, incest are wrong).
Once again, these are my words, not oursonend's words. So how does one go about instilling morals? Telling them what's right and wrong? In my experience and through observing other people's behavior, this doesn't work very well. You can't make people see what you see...they have to experience it for themselves. In other words, you can say rape is wrong, and they might have a concept of that in their mind and agree with you on some level, but until they see it happen, hear about it, or experience it themselves they wouldn't really *know* how they feel about it. It's like reading a history book that talks all about war on a superficial level...basically giving kids the idea that war is all about facts, dates, who won, who lost, etc. It's not until they see it on TV, experience it first hand, or hear someone vividly describe it that they actually have a real awareness of what war is. So this "line" you speak of that you would rather your child cross on their own...how will you prepare them for that? By telling them what's "right" and "wrong" in your eyes? Anything else? I just don't see how that helps prepare them for the very intense experience that is sex. It seems like a very unstable foundation, imo. What's so wrong with showing them tasteful sex when they are mature enough to handle it (or at least talk about it in an open, detailed discussion)? It sounds to me like YOU are the one who wouldn't be able to handle it...better to just push it under the rug, huh, and hope they find it when they're ready

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mama.Pajama View Post
I don't think sex should be miscommunicated- it is something we do in our bedrooms behind a closed door, isn't it? It is a private thing, and by private I mean we don't do it in the checkout lines at Target.
How much of this was born from our puritanical ethics rather than what's inherently natural? I'm not saying having sex at Target is natural, but to hide it behind closed doors isn't necessarily natural, either. Do some research--I'm sure you will find that sex is not shamed nearly as much in certain other cultures as it is in ours.
post #79 of 81
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Originally Posted by Amylcd View Post
If you have a computer, you have porn in your house. This was not downloaded. It was a website that was apparently viewed 4 months ago (according to the history)
Hmm. I have a computer in my house and there's never been porn on it. Not downloaded, not on websites.

Quote:
So you are saying that every woman that chooses to use her body to make money is a victim?
I would say that the great majority of women in the sex trade are victims, or were at some point in their lives. I've known quite a few "dancers" and the majority of them were sexually abused as children. Now that I live somewhere where there are more prostitutes, I've seen that all of the ones that are out in the open are strung out, addicted to something, selling themselves to buy drugs. Not exactly the "empowered woman."
post #80 of 81
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Originally Posted by ahimsa_in_action View Post
So how does one go about instilling morals? Telling them what's right and wrong?
Let me clarify what I mean by "instilling morals". Through processes of trial and error and by individually shared "sense", humankind has come to an overall general global consensus that certain things are, for lack of a better word, immoral, i.e. unethical. It is my responsibility to model moral and ethical character to my child. It isn't a specifically detailed plan that I have- this is an ideal that need not be "preached" when is learned through shared life experience.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ahimsa_in_action View Post
So this "line" you speak of that you would rather your child cross on their own...how will you prepare them for that? By telling them what's "right" and "wrong" in your eyes? Anything else? I just don't see how that helps prepare them for the very intense experience that is sex. It seems like a very unstable foundation, imo. What's so wrong with showing them tasteful sex when they are mature enough to handle it (or at least talk about it in an open, detailed discussion)? It sounds to me like YOU are the one who wouldn't be able to handle it...better to just push it under the rug, huh, and hope they find it when they're ready
It is my responsibility to model moral and ethical character to my child. It isn't a specifically detailed plan that I have- this is an ideal that need not be "preached"- it is learned through life experiences.

I personally feel that it is inappropriate to view pornographic material with your child- this is something that can be "handled" in an alternatively constructive way. What is "tasteful", in your opinion? You may personally have preferred that your parents had shown you a pornographic video rather than make sex out to be a shameful secret, which sounds conceivable from your perspective. But it doesn't sound like OP shares your parents' "push it under the rug" attitude about sex, nor do I.
Now an age-appropriate educational video about sex would be totally appropriate! Open, honest communication is your best bet, along with age-appropriate information.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ahimsa_in_action View Post
How much of this was born from our puritanical ethics rather than what's inherently natural? I'm not saying having sex at Target is natural, but to hide it behind closed doors isn't necessarily natural, either. Do some research--I'm sure you will find that sex is not shamed nearly as much in certain other cultures as it is in ours.
We don't have sex in front of our families (or in public), that's the point I was making. Our society is indeed puritanical, but in what other culture that you reference do parents have sex in front of (as in the viewers are an audience) their families or in public?
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