cost of raw food versus commercial dog food?

[Piglet68]

Hello, everyone. I'm new to this forum, although I've been around MDC for years. We are in the process of adding a dog to our family. Both myself and DH grew up with dogs, and now that our kids are older I'm feeling the pang of wanting a canine companion. Anyways, my questions is about raw dog food.

I've done the reading/research and I'm convinced that a raw food diet would be optimal for our future dog (I find it interesting how much similarity there is between the language used by raw food advocates and that used by breastfeeding advocates! ). But I have no idea how much feeding a raw food diet compares to the ol' standby. In the past, a large bag of dog food would cost me about $30 - 40 and last me almost a month. I'm guessing raw food is more, but could someone give me a ballpark amount? Does anyone buy their food from a raw pet food store where they prepare meals you can buy fresh or frozen?

TIA!

[Ola_]

Unfortunately most things cost more in Canada, whether you buy commercial food or raw. We do raw but from what I've heard from others the good foods have really gone up in price, in the $60/40 lbs range.

Raw really varies depending on your sources. I will say that the prepared raw that you can buy is the most expensive for sure (plus ground stuff and veg is not optimal to feed IMO). I'm in Ontario and when shopping for food for my dogs at regular stores I aim for the $1/lb mark (some is more, some is less). I have found a group of folks where one person is in touch with a processor and can get us good deals on cases every few months. We have an extra freezer for this so in the past I've gotten 100-150 lbs at a time (I have to drive a couple of hours to get it, but usually split the drive/cost with others in my area). This stuff is mostly $0.50-$1/lb for stuff that would go for significantly more ($2-3/lb).

The thing with finding good sources is that it can take time. I would suggest finding any ethnic grocery stores in your area (and depending on where you are that might be easy or not). I typically find good deals at Chinese or Vietnamese stores, and also they carry stuff you won't see in regular groceries. Also do a search on Yahoo groups and ask if people can point you towards sources (some that I have on my list are CanadianRawPetSupply and CFS-Canada but look for more local ones too).

The cost of feeding depends on the size of your dog and the price you can get. Say for ease of calculation $1/lb. You need about 2-3% of your dog's weight per day. This means a 50 lb dog might need 1-1.5 lbs per day, costing about $1-1.50. This guideline doesn't scale that well at the extremes so toy dogs often need a higher percentage and giant ones a lower one. Plus metabolism and such definitely play a role, but you can't really predict that.

Did that help, or confuse you? Any other questions?

[SevenVeils]

I used to feed raw, but I no longer have a local source of appropriate meat that is affordable

Anyway, to address your question, it is really hard to answer that without knowing the size, breed, activity level of the dog in question, and since there is no actual dog, well...

A person who used to be a regular poster here, calculated it and said that if you can get raw meaty bones for under, if I recall correctly, .25/lb that it is equivalent to or cheaper than buying good kibble (Solid Gold, Innova, etc). She has an article online on the subject (or possibly more than one). PM me if you'd like the link to her blog. She's very, very informative, and her writing style is a pleasure.

[onlyzombiecat]

We go to our local grocery store and buy chicken leg quarter, etc.
We have a chihuahua and a smooth fox terrier mix.

I'd say our raw feeding cost is under $30 per month... more like $20.
It really isn't a huge price difference than when we were buying a bag of kibble or a can of food but I know the dogs are healthier and using the food they get more efficiently.

If you are buying a ground up prepared raw food diet it is going to cost differently than picking up meat and bones at your grocery store or butcher.
I would start pricing your local meat sources. You might find other regional raw feeders who can give you an idea of resources and prices in your area.

[Piglet68]

Thanks, everybody. We'll be getting a medium sized dog, mixed breed (most likely Border Collie cross or lab cross). I realize one can't give an estimate of food costs without knowing those details, but I was hoping to get an idea of the relative costs of one food type over the other. SevenVeils, the guideline of 0.25 cents/lb was helpful. I will PM you for that article.

I read the BARF diet book, and while I was convinced of the health benefits it sure seemed like a lot of work for meal preparation. Heck, I don't even go that far for my family! So using those prepared raw foods seemed a good idea, supplementing with raw meaty bones. Do you guys make your own raw food? Any good websites or info on that?

Thanks!

[Ola_]

I have to say I'm skeptical about the 0.25/lb rule. I guess it depends on what kibble you compare it to and how much that costs where you live.

Originally Posted by Piglet68

I read the BARF diet book, and while I was convinced of the health benefits it sure seemed like a lot of work for meal preparation.

I don't use the BARF model. Not only is it incredibly complicated but I don't even think that it's the best. I don't like the large amount of veggie matter, the high proportion of bone, use of ground meats instead of whole, or multitude of supplements. I use what some might call the franken-prey model - you're not feeding whole prey/animals but various parts from different ones (i.e. chicken leg, fish head, pork ribs). The variety of body parts and different proteins provides a very balanced diet over time.

[onlyzombiecat]

I don't use the BARF model either.

http://www.rawlearning.com/
http://pets.dir.groups.yahoo.com/gro...sec=dir&slk=11
http://www.rawmeatybones.com/petowners.php

[Piglet68]

Thanks, everyone! Great links, too.

Okay, so I guess I'll need to check out local butchers, etc for sources of raw meat...

[DoomaYula]

I found that good kibble was about .99/lb, and I get most of my RMB for .60/lb, so it's cheaper for me. I found a local grocery store that has a butcher shop inside, and I buy 40lbs at a time, and divide and ziploc.

[cmb123]

I don't want to hijack, but I came to this forum to ask some of these same questions (thanks op)

Obviously I have a lot more reading to do, but when they say feed raw meaty bones, are you literaly just handing your dog a carcass and lettin 'um go at it? Or is there more prep than that?

[Ola_]

Originally Posted by cmb123

Obviously I have a lot more reading to do, but when they say feed raw meaty bones, are you literaly just handing your dog a carcass and lettin 'um go at it? Or is there more prep than that?

Nope, that's about it! When we started with raw we used chicken leg quarters (leg and thigh all attached) as the first meat. I was impressed when I handed them to my dogs (in their crates, that's where they usually eat) - at first they gave a couple of hesitant licks and gave me a look like "mom, are you sure we are allowed to eat this?". Then they picked them up and chewed like they had been eating this way all their life! It was amazing.

There is a bit more to it than just feeding meaty bones, but no other "prep" is really required. Overall you will want to feed about 70-80% meat, 10-15% bone, and 5-10% organ meat (liver, kidney, spleen). How you feed that is up to you - you can feed a whole chicken with it's organs (entirely or in pieces for a small dog), or you can get some pork neck bones, beef heart, and a piece of liver. It is VERY flexible. In general the bigger the pieces you feed, the better in terms of chewing action and dental cleaning.

A couple of notes: you don't need to feed those percentages every day - aim for balance over time (balance between meat/bone/organs as well as a variety of proteins). Also, when switching to raw start with one type of meat and no organs till they adjust, and slowly add variety.

[cmb123]

What would you say is the best way to start trasitioning them?

[Ola_]

No transition, just start feeding raw. Some people suggest to skip a meal to make it a "mini fast" so their tummy doesn't have any kibble left in it. We did what most do - fed kibble at one meal, and some chicken leg quarters for the next one. Mixing the two can actually cause problems for some dogs and give them an upset tummy.

[mistymama]

We've been raw feeding for about 8 weeks now and OMG, I just LOVE it.

It is more expensive than kibble, but I'm expecting the long term benefits (healthier dog, no teeth cleanings, less chance of illness and vet visits) to even out in the end.

Also, you can make raw feeding pretty cheap by shopping sales and nearly out of date meats. You can get cheaper cuts, etc. to control the cost. So it's a little bit more expensive, but it does not have to be super expensive either, kwim?

I must say, you will be VERY happy you chose raw. And yes, just start cold turkey. Maybe a chicken leg or something mild like that and stick to it for a week or so before adding new foods. But I must say, I have a dog with the most sensitive tummy EVER and he has had very little trouble with raw foods. In fact, he has more trouble when he gets something non-meat - like he got a corn cob out of the trash yesterday and ate it and has been pooping non-stop. Grrr. But raw meat, not a problem.

Good luck!

[Krisis]

Okay friends, I am really thick and need this spelled out for me in small words.

So when it says carcass, does that mean I should feed my puppy the whole Cornish game hen or whatever, or is that just the bones after some of the meat is taken off (which is what I read on one of those sites)? Where would I find raw meaty bone stuffs? I almost never buy meat because cooking it scares me. I'd really like to try this but I'm scared of accidentally poisoning my puppy (he's a lab/GSD if that makes a difference.)

Also, is diarrhea a problem when switching over? (apart from corncobs mistymama )

[Ola_]

Originally Posted by Krisis

Okay friends, I am really thick and need this spelled out for me in small words.

So when it says carcass, does that mean I should feed my puppy the whole Cornish game hen or whatever, or is that just the bones after some of the meat is taken off (which is what I read on one of those sites)?

Not thick at all, and that's a good question! You will find that BARF folks tend to feed more boney items and those of us who do what some call "prey model" or whatever feed more meat. So I would not be removing any meat. A whole prey animal is the ideal food, whether eaten whole or in pieces (depends on size usually ).

In some cases it is more economical to feed a boney piece (say pork neck bones) along with a boneless piece (say piece of beef hear), but feeding it all together is ideal. In BARF often there are the boney pieces and the meat is served ground which I would not want to do on a regular basis - dogs benefit from the chewing! Also, with raw food the bone firms stools, meat loosens them, and organs really loosen them (which is why you want to start really slow with organs at first). So if you feed too much bone the dog will get constipated and you'll see some dry, crumbly poops. If you stick roughly to the suggested numbers I posted above you'll be fine.

Also, is diarrhea a problem when switching over? (apart from corncobs mistymama )

Some dogs do get some loose stools for the first couple of days, most don't. To reduce the chance of this stick to a single protein for the first few days to a week (many people choose chicken). Don't feed excessive fat at first and no organs. Also, the amount you should feed is 2-3% of the dog's adult weight per day - feeding too much can cause loose stools so stick to the lower end of that range at first.