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The religious reasoning to spank a child.. - Page 2

post #21 of 81
I don't think asking them to read their Bibles would help your argument at all. The Bible is very pro-violence. It says nothing about NOT spanking...if anything you should probably brush up on your own Bible literacy and you'd probably realize that the idea of "Gentlechristianmothers" is a made up one. As well as the idea of the perfect "christian family". The Bible isn't very pro-family in general.
post #22 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by KristaDJ View Post
Disagree
This is turning into a religious debate so that's it for me.
I agree, I dont want to argue the bible here See, we can civilily disagree
post #23 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mama.Pajama View Post
If this woman is a regular fixture in your life, your advice would not be misplaced. If I heard a Christian mother talk about spanking a 9 month old infant, I would quote this scripture:
'I tell you the truth, whatever you did to the least of these brothers of mine, you did to me.'
Matthew 25:40

Though as with just about any subject, one could be engaging in a scripture battle, which would be futile. There's always another scripture somewhere, you know?

This is coming from an Atheist (who was raised in church), but I think Jesus Christ's example was one of compassion and patience, not the proverbial whip-cracking. Perhaps this woman sees Christ in a different light, one of an angry God of hellfire and brimstone.
As a mother, it hurts to hear someone bragging about hurting a baby or a child. I would have recoiled and said, "I think it's despicable that you would hurt an infant. She has absolutely no physical or mental ability to begin to comprehend the reason for your violence- all she can do is feel the pain inflicted by the one person on earth who is meant to protect her. You are nothing more than a predator to prey on the weak. If you think your God hurts children, he is no god of mine. You two will be good company for each other."
But that's mama-lion talking.
As another atheist I'd have to disagree. If you are a christian you believe Jesus IS God...so although Jesus' example may have been more compassionate...God was vicious in the old testament...and since the Bible claims God doesn't change, doesn't make mistakes, etc...Jesus is just as bad as God.

God DOES hurt children, kills them for stupid reasons, in fact...Read KINGS 2. I'm not sure why people choose to overlook stories like this, or claim they are taken out of context. It's always the "bad" stuff that is taken out of context. Is there any GOOD reason to kill 42 children (or young people)? I mean, really now?
post #24 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by beansmama View Post
As another atheist I'd have to disagree. If you are a christian you believe Jesus IS God...so although Jesus' example may have been more compassionate...God was vicious in the old testament...and since the Bible claims God doesn't change, doesn't make mistakes, etc...Jesus is just as bad as God.

God DOES hurt children, kills them for stupid reasons, in fact...Read KINGS 2. I'm not sure why people choose to overlook stories like this, or claim they are taken out of context. It's always the "bad" stuff that is taken out of context. Is there any GOOD reason to kill 42 children (or young people)? I mean, really now?
I am a christian, and I am agreeing. I have seen many times here people disregard the true nature of God. He is loving, and forgiving, long suffering and merciful, but he is also jelous, just and allows people to go to hell; something people dont want to admit often times.

Now of course, I dont think they are for stupid reasons and I wouldnt call him vicious, but you are an atheist relaying what I believe in the bible to be true and righteous, so our wording would be different, but it is true.
post #25 of 81
i'm jewish so i have never followed the new testament...however, the christian bible that people use today to justify physical disipline has been translated and rewritten so many times. the reference to stoning a son who is unruly, actually was referring to a grown-man who is a drunk and steals money from his parents. there are many things in the bible that we do not advocate today. there was incest and parents were allowed sell their children into slavery. you can't really use the text as a guide until you use it relative to the way society has evolved today, not the norm thousands of years ago.
post #26 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovemy3babies View Post
I am not where you all are as far as GD, but I am trying to be. I just had to mention, the bible DOES say God chastens his children who he loves.

Hbr 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.




CHASTEN
Pronunciation (US):

Dictionary entry overview: What does chasten mean?

• CHASTEN (verb)
The verb CHASTEN has 3 senses:

1. censure severely
2. restrain or temper
3. correct by punishment or discipline

I think it is wrong to assume people who dont come to the same conclusion as you dont read their bible. I think perhaps they just dont come to the same conclusion. I know bible isnt well recieved around here, but I am honestly curious as to what biblical backing there is to say that God isnt vengeful, almighty, and is going to allow people to go to hell? That is all in the bible.
post #27 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovemy3babies View Post
I am honestly curious as to what biblical backing there is to say that God isnt vengeful, almighty, and is going to allow people to go to hell? That is all in the bible.
Not going to debate or even discuss here but since you are honestly curious look here:
http://bible-truths.com/
post #28 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by KD's Momma View Post
So, if these people are using the scripture that says "rod and staff that guide me" or basically the "spare the rod, spoil the child" thought - I always say that a rod is used by shepherds to GUIDE the sheep in the way they should go, it is not used to hit the sheep. There is a big difference (obviously) but for some people they don't realized that the purpose is for steering in the correct direction not as a means of punishment.
This exactly. It is amazing what people don't know.
post #29 of 81
the "spare the rod, spoil the child" phrase is from a poem by samuel butler, an english/victorian, poet. there are references to a child and a rod in the bible, but that phrase is not from the bible and probably not in the same sense.
post #30 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by earthgirl View Post
This exactly. It is amazing what people don't know.
I know that isnt in the bible persay. I am not debating/argueing/justifying spanking a child. I am only speaking of the fact people believe God is this all loving, kind, gentle soul, which He is, but he is so much more too, including some of those things people dont want to admit He is.
post #31 of 81
I was reading in another thread here about Christians and discipline, and two lovely mamas discussing the subject of obedience, and that makes sense since it's the reason I would imagine most parents who spank spank...because they believe that their children are supposed to be obedient.

So anyway, these mamas brought up the wonderful point that God instructs children to be obedient to their parents (and that is something between the child and God); God does NOT instruct *parents* to MAKE their children obey them (by punishment/spanking). See the difference? Their posts rocked my world, even as a no-longer-practicing-Christian.

I'll go hunt up those posts and link them here...
post #32 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mama.Pajama View Post
As a mother, it hurts to hear someone bragging about hurting a baby or a child.
I've always felt this way. Luckily none of our friends spank, so it's not an issue we face regularly, but I have been in situations where parents seem to be trying to one-up each other on spanking their child.
post #33 of 81
post #34 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandiRhoades View Post
I've always felt this way. Luckily none of our friends spank, so it's not an issue we face regularly, but I have been in situations where parents seem to be trying to one-up each other on spanking their child.

Me too. When i was Christian i had to stop going to "MOPS" because of this. This girl would always insist on sitting next to me and telling me about spanking her not even 1 year old, or letting her CIO on TIMEOUT for over 30 minutes because her kid was trying to *MANIPULATE* her...ugh! I'm not dissing mops, or christian moms...i know that *everyone* is different regardless of beliefs...but yeah, i totally cannot stomach that kind of "parenting".
post #35 of 81
I really don't think we can have a fair debate over this subject, since only posts against spanking are allowed. In fact, I'll probably get kicked out of the forum for the above sentence. A debate is a discussion of both sides, where niether side has a "gag rule" against the other.
post #36 of 81
the OP was not looking for a debate on the thread here, she was looking for information to support her views and present to others she knows in real life.
post #37 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by zech13_9_goforgold View Post
I really don't think we can have a fair debate over this subject, since only posts against spanking are allowed. In fact, I'll probably get kicked out of the forum for the above sentence. A debate is a discussion of both sides, where niether side has a "gag rule" against the other.
post #38 of 81
there is nothing in the bible that advocates spanking a child. the proverbs that some christians used to justify it, have been mistranslated numerous times. the original hebrew word used was "na'ar." na'ar is referring to male child of any age, usually an older adolescent. the proverbs in the bible, are just that, proverbs. they are wise sayings, not instructions directly from god. the stories that refer to stoning a grown child in the old testament are taken out of context.
post #39 of 81
If you want an explicit statement from the Bible, you will not find one, either way. It does say that God will in some cases punish the wicked, but how that applies to parents spanking children is unclear to me.

On many topics, if people want to get a Christian answer to a problem like this, they will have to actually use their brain. What is the role of a parent in the Bible would be the obvious question. I suspect that most Bible-spankers think it is a good way to maintain discipline.

But you'd also have to look at what we know about children. And certainly there is no reason to think spanking a baby would have any effect on things like discipline anyway, so what would be the point? It's a rational that has never made any sense to me as a Christian.
post #40 of 81
Does a shepherd spank/beat his flock with his rod? No, he guides them with his rod.

Also, God TESTS his children, I don't believe he really wants us to beat our children.
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