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DH's Therapist trying to convince him homeschooling is bad! - Page 2

post #21 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsTittlemouse View Post
.. I think it is normal for her to share her experience...
I think "sharing her experience" is one of the worst things a therapist can do for a client. A therapist's personal experience is pretty irrelevant to the therapeutic relationship, and people in therapy are NOT THERE to hear about the therapist's personal experiences and personal opinions about things. I don't really know what was said about homeschooling, so I'm not talking about this topic in particular, just ANY topic.

Therapists are supposed to help you work through your mental health and emotional issues, not tell you stories about their other patients, their experience with X type of person or whatever. That's a highly unprofessional way to approach therapy and the shittiest therapist I ever saw was one who couldn't seem to understand that I was there to get help for my issues, not hear her personal opinions about my life. There's a BIG difference between giving someone psychotherapy and giving someone advice based on your own personal experience and preferences. So, no, it is not normal (or helpful or therapeutic) for a therapist to share their personal experience with you, if it happens in the manner described in the OP.
post #22 of 56
HS kid here, and no social disorders at all. Report therapist and get a new one.
post #23 of 56
Context is everything. All the homeschoolers I know are highly functional n social situations. That's because I know them from park group (a social setting). Perhaps if I spent my day seeing patients with issues, I'd see homeschoolers in a different light.
post #24 of 56
JesiLynne HS kid here, and no social disorders at all. Report therapist and get a new one. :
post #25 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by JesiLynne View Post
HS kid here, and no social disorders at all. Report therapist and get a new one.
post #26 of 56
There are also many people who have social anxiety due to emotionally scarring experiences that happened in the social arena of school.

Homeschooling does not automatically equal social isolation. It does give the parents and children more control over what type of social experiences they have, and that can be much healthier.

IMO the therapist should keep her bias against educational choices to herself...unless it has to do specifically with what your DH is seeking therapy for, it doesn't need to be discussed in his sessions, and he can tell her that if he doesn't want to hear more about it from her.
post #27 of 56
I'm sure this therapist probably stretched the truth a bit. I meet people sometimes (online and IRL) that will say they've met SO many home schoolers that are odd or don't do it right and I know they've probably only met one or two people along the way that even home school. You have to remmeber that even a therapist is going to have their own opinion about things. And IMO the therapist had no right to give their opinion on this unless it is something that your DH brought up to her and asked her opinion because it is bothering him. Otherwise, why would she say that unless she was just being negative about HS.

I was also raised in the public school system and grew up very sad, lonely and withdrawn socially. I was okay sometimes but I had a very hard time and I had to deal with a lot as an adult as well.

I agree with someone else, report the therapist.
post #28 of 56
Unless she has more patients with social anxiety that were homeschooled than she does patients that were public schooled-her comment doesn't even make sense. That's like saying, "Oh, I know someone who was homeschooled that is in prison now." Nevermind the three others in prison that weren't.

It sounds to me like the therapist isn't a fan of homeschooling and is trying to project that onto your husband.
post #29 of 56
Quote:
I don't know, if we made decisions based on a therapists view of the issues that they see in their office, I would imagine we would also not have parents, or jobs, or children..... Life is full of challenges! Family life is full of challenges! Growing up is full of challenges! Parenting is full of challenges!
I agree. I would point out to your dh that the *therapist's* views are obviously going to be a bit skewed, only seeing people who have some type of issue.....
post #30 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roar View Post
"Be careful" is about social contact is a very reasonable caution especially when the parent homeschooling has social anxiety. It may ruffle feathers to say it but as a long term homeschooler speaking with other homeschoolers I feel comfortable being honest about the reality. It varies a lot by individual circumstance, but it can take some effort to make social connections. If a parent has social anxiety, Asperger's, depression, etc. it can be a difficult situation because the steps required to make social connections may be a lot more difficult. I have encountered older homeschooled kids (even late elementary and middle school) who due to these sorts of factors really had not had adequate social opportunities. These may not have been an issue if the family socialized regularly in other ways, but due to social anxiety or other factors that hadn't been happening. There was some significant catching up to do and often kids struggled. For kids who already have a genetic tendency toward social anxiety, very little social experience made them less sure and more wary.

To be clear that isn't to say that people shouldn't homeschool, but rather to say "be careful" is a pretty reasonable suggestion. Be mindful of this need for your children and have a plan of how you will handle the places where that hits up against your own challenges. These are reasonable matters to discuss in your home as you begin this adventure.
I think "be careful" is good advice regardless of where your child goes to school. We should all, as parents, "be careful" about the kinds of social situations we expose our children too. However, specifically in reference to homeschool, it seems like bad advice to me. There is nothing inherent about homeschooling that makes it a better or worse experience for socialization. The kind of socialization needed really depends on the child.

You talk about kids you knew with a tendency toward social anxiety, who became more wary and unsure as a result of lack of social interaction. So presumably for them, a school setting would have helped. I also suffered from (and still do) social anxiety, and I went to public school. It was without a doubt the WORST thing for me (my mother even admits that). I ended up severely depressed by the end of high school, and spent the next decade basically in social isolation just to get myself to a point where I felt at peace again. As a child, I would have benefited GREATLY from being kept out of most social situations, and only interacting with others on my own terms, when I was ready. But that's just me.

My point in saying this, is that yes the word of caution "be careful" is good advice, but ONLY in a general sense, IMO. Know your child, and be careful to provide them with the right kind of situations. Linking the word of warning with homeschooling, IMO, is irresponsible. It paints the picture that homeschooling carries with a risk that simply isn't there. For some kids, the potential isolation that can happen with homeschooling can be bad. However, for some it can be exactly what they need. Just like for some kids, PS can be bad, while for others it's exactly what they need. It's all about the individual child and what they need, rather than some inherent risk in either schooling situation, IMO. I hope that makes sense. I don't always express myself clearly, even though I'm very wordy, LOL.
post #31 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by junie View Post
You talk about kids you knew with a tendency toward social anxiety, who became more wary and unsure as a result of lack of social interaction. So presumably for them, a school setting would have helped. .
No, that isn't what I was saying. What I was saying is that a parent with challenges in this area (social anxiety, depression, Asperger's) is in a particularly vulnerable position especially given their kids also may have some genetic risks as well. As I stated in my previous post: "Be mindful of this need for your children and have a plan of how you will handle the places where that hits up against your own challenges. These are reasonable matters to discuss in your home as you begin this adventure."

In other words, take the need of children for social contact seriously and if it is something that is hard for you to do for whatever reason be mindful of the need to make some plans to deal with this. Make a commitment to find friends and to get out of the house. Make sure your kids have other meaningful relationships in their lives. If that is not something you feel in a position to be able to do then honestly assess if that is good for your kids.

If the choice is: parent with mental illness or challenge that is not particularly well addressed or public school. Then, yes, in many of those situations school is a preferred choice though I'm sure often a less than ideal choice. Kids deserve to have time spent with adults who are able to care for them in the ways they need cared for.

Ultimately, I don't understand why the doctor's advice is so threatening here. He didn't say no one should ever homeschool. He said, he's seen difficult situations result from kids denied appropriate social contact. I have seen the same. I know homeschoolers don't like to entertain this reality but there are people who use homeschooling as a cover to neglect their kids. Be careful and make plans (especially given the parents have mental health problems) seems to be very appropriate and sound advice.
post #32 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roar View Post
Ultimately, I don't understand why the doctor's advice is so threatening h[ere. He didn't say no one should ever homeschool. He said, he's seen difficult situations result from kids denied appropriate social contact. I have seen the same.

No, she first gave OP's DH a "dirty look," then said she's seen many former homeschoolers who have developed "severe social anxiety." This statement is a lot stronger than simply stating "be careful, difficult situations can arise with homeschooling." This is saying "homeschooling is weird (implication of dirty look, IMO) and it can cause severe problems." OP's DH may be completely misreading situation, of course, but all we can go on as posters is what OP wrote, hence the negative feelings people have about this situation. A doctor's opinion often carries more weight than the average person's (whether right or not), which is why they need to be very careful about how they say things. If the OP's DH is to be believed, than the therapist conveyed much too strong an opinion (and that's all it really is) for a position of authority such as hers. At least she did in the opinions of many posters on here.


I know homeschoolers don't like to entertain this reality but there are people who use homeschooling as a cover to neglect their kids. Be careful and make plans (especially given the parents have mental health problems) seems to be very appropriate and sound advice.

That may be true, but it still doesn't mean that homeschooling is to blame, which is what the therapist's opinion seems to convey, IMO. She's not simply saying "be careful and make plans." She's saying "be careful, or you'll do serious damage to your child." Which is basically leading her patients to the conclusion that homeschooling is not worth the risk, whether she states that or not.
.
post #33 of 56
Isn't there a book on this topic, like "The Socialization Question" or "BUt what about socialization?" that supposedly addresses this aspect of HSing really well? I would assume it would have the studies on this in it. I know I saw it on Amazon and it had fabulous reviews. I've been meaning to see if I can ILL order it.
post #34 of 56
It seems like a stretch to get worried third hand about a "dirty look". That is subject to quite a bit of possibility of misinterpretation. It is quite possible that it tells us nothing more than dh has worries and they were reflected back to him.

For the original poster, I'd start from a place of knowing that some people will not agree with homeschooling, will not be well informed about it or may have worries about homeschooling in a family with parents with mental health concerns. I'd consider why exactly that is upsetting and drawing such a huge reaction. Does it hit on something you are already worried about as far as lack of socialization? Does it highlight that you and dh aren't on the same page yet? Does it bring up anything that is useful for you?

For what it is worth, going through medical stuff with our child we heard some very positive and some very negative comments about homeschooling. I couldn't work up a head of steam either way because I don't feel anyone elses previous experience (good or bad) has much of anything to do with our homeschooling experience. I'm confident I've looked at all sides of this question with an open mind and that we've made the right choices for our family.
post #35 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roar View Post
Ultimately, I don't understand why the doctor's advice is so threatening here. He didn't say no one should ever homeschool. He said, he's seen difficult situations result from kids denied appropriate social contact. I have seen the same. I know homeschoolers don't like to entertain this reality but there are people who use homeschooling as a cover to neglect their kids. Be careful and make plans (especially given the parents have mental health problems) seems to be very appropriate and sound advice.
But it's still wrong for his therapist to refer to any of her other patients in any way due to privacy issues. The OP also didn't say that her husband asked the therapist for this advice, unless there is something the OP husband is not telling her. There is nothing wrong with a therapist giving advice to a patient if they want it - but simply saying that she has treated a bunch of home schooled people that have "issues" when all her DH said to her was that they plan to home school their child in the future doesn't warrant a response like the one given by his therapist.
post #36 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by llp34 View Post
IMO the therapist should keep her bias against educational choices to herself...unless it has to do specifically with what your DH is seeking therapy for, it doesn't need to be discussed in his sessions, and he can tell her that if he doesn't want to hear more about it from her.
I agree. What if the OP husband had told her they plan to put their child in a public school? I bet she would have said nothing. And I assure you that the majority of this therapists patients attended a public school throughout their 12 years of education. In fact, I guarantee it. What about them? They have problems as well. :
post #37 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommy68 View Post
But it's still wrong for his therapist to refer to any of her other patients in any way due to privacy issues. The OP also didn't say that her husband asked the therapist for this advice, unless there is something the OP husband is not telling her. There is nothing wrong with a therapist giving advice to a patient if they want it - but simply saying that she has treated a bunch of home schooled people that have "issues" when all her DH said to her was that they plan to home school their child in the future doesn't warrant a response like the one given by his therapist.
Of course the therapist should not say "Jane Smith's kids are sure screwed up". But, it doesn't sound like he said anything of that sort. It is perfectly reasonable in my opinion for a therapist to say generally I've seen parents with similar challenges in this situation and there are real potential problems that it is good to be mindful about. It is not a violation of privacy to speak in general trends.

I would keep in mind we are hearing about this conversation third hand. We have no idea what advice the husband asked for or what their conversations about this matter were like. The poster noted he's already had concerns about social stuff with the kids.
post #38 of 56
"The Well Adjusted Child:The Social Benefits of Homeschooling" by Gathercole

Very good book

eta: my mother has social anxiety and public school was pure torture for her. Being in ps isnt a cure for social anxiety nor does it guarnatee your kids will come out "normal". There are many misfits, outcasts etc in public school. I have a cousin whose fourth grade dd is miserable at school by girls who are picking on her unmercifully. PS is not the great equalizer that it is made out to be. In fact, I'd go as far as to say the "society" going on within the school is artificially created. In real life, ie, after highschool graduation and entry into the work force, you will never again been grouped togather with others based only on age. I dont pick my friends out of only other 40 year olds that I have nothing in common with, I pick friends of all ages whom I like and connect with. No matter if you child is hs or ps, you have to provide oppurtunities for them to make those types of connections.
post #39 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roar View Post
Of course the therapist should not say "Jane Smith's kids are sure screwed up". But, it doesn't sound like he said anything of that sort. [I]It is perfectly reasonable in my opinion for a therapist to say generally I've seen parents with similar challenges in this situation and there are real potential problems that it is good to be mindful about.[/I] It is not a violation of privacy to speak in general trends.

I would keep in mind we are hearing about this conversation third hand. We have no idea what advice the husband asked for or what their conversations about this matter were like. The poster noted he's already had concerns about social stuff with the kids.
Blue mine.

I am not sure that is what transpired (and you have a point about this being third hand info!)

Quote OP:

"be careful" because she has "many patients who were homeschooled and now have severe social anxiety."

If this is how it went down, I do not think the therapist is acting in an appropriate manner.

Imagine if she said "be careful about sending him to school - many schooled kids end up with severe social anxiety". Would that be OK?

It probably wouldn't.

It would be much more appropriate to suggest that Dh does research on HSing and its outcomes - rather than giving her opinion (which is not fact) on a subject he is struggling with.

As a general rule I do not have problems with people giving opinions (particualrly if asked) but a therapist is a little different. She is in a position of power and influence, somewhat, and should be careful.

I do think it is OK to say : "there are many pros and cons to HS and brick and mortar schooling. One of things peple who have social anxiety need to watch out for is that they create/support enough opportunities for kids to socialise. Some people can do this - and some cannot - in which case school may be the way to go".

Kathy
post #40 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roar View Post
Of course the therapist should not say "Jane Smith's kids are sure screwed up". But, it doesn't sound like he said anything of that sort. It is perfectly reasonable in my opinion for a therapist to say generally I've seen parents with similar challenges in this situation and there are real potential problems that it is good to be mindful about. It is not a violation of privacy to speak in general trends.

I would keep in mind we are hearing about this conversation third hand. We have no idea what advice the husband asked for or what their conversations about this matter were like. The poster noted he's already had concerns about social stuff with the kids.
You have a point that this is third hand info. But it's still not right for the therapist to comment that way unless asked for her opinion. Let's say 10% of her patients were home schooled, then that would mean the other 90% must have gone to a public/private school...right? Does she refer to those patients when she has a patient come in to see her that has a child in public school? I doubt it. Lots of people have problems that warrant going to a therapist, that doesn't make them worse off than anyone else IMO. She had no reason to say what she did, that's the point I guess I was trying to make.
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