New study on effectiveness of pertussis vaccine - Page 2

[anewmama]

That goes without saying, no? It's true for any disease unless the disease's symptoms are so unequivocal that a diagnosis is not questionable even without a lab test or other type of test.

[peainthepod]

Originally Posted by ema-adama

But then again, I am not worried about my son getting WC and was not relying on herd immunity to protect him.

:

Anecdotally speaking, I know of plenty of pertussis cases in vaccinated children that were initially misdiagnosed as a number of other illnesses: bronchitis, croup, even just a plain viral infection. Persistent parents and usually a second or even third opinion were necessary to obtain proper lab confirmation and diagnosis of pertussis.

If many doctors have a sort of "pertussis blind spot" and refuse to even consider it a possibility in vaccinated children, then it must be very under-diagnosed, which would skew any studies that go solely by medical chart information. How often do actual pertussis cases go unconfirmed in vaccinated children? That would be a much more interesting study IMHO.

In any case, I hope the adults crowing about herd immunity are totally up to date on their TDaP vax...

[ema-adama]

One in 20 children whose parents do not get them vaccinated against whooping cough catch the highly contagious virus, researchers said on Tuesday.

Bolding mine -

[crittersmom]

Hmmm... I've got one vaccinated child and we have done a lot of coast to coast travel by plane and car.That child is the only one who has had WC and like most vaccine available illnesses it was hard to get diagnosed properly.I don't think that study is very accurate.

[ema-adama]

Originally Posted by peainthepod

How often do actual pertussis cases go unconfirmed in vaccinated children? That would be a much more interesting study IMHO.

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[Sileree]

Good catch ema-adama!

[liseux]

I have a question about pertussis : once a person gets it, are they immune for life? Or can they keep getting it?

My 3 boys had it last summer and it was a NIGHTMARE! They are all unvaxed, the oldest caught it from a vaxed kid (health dept. was involved & traced it) at a day camp. My oldest gave it to his 2 younger brothers and to a vaxed neighbor. The vaxed kids had it for 2 weeks, my boys coughed until they threw up for 30 days, but coughed constantly for 100 days. The sickest of my 3 kids was my 5 yr old, he lost a lot of weight, even with us keeping food coming constantly.

I have a newborn now and I know its around & wonder if my other kids could still catch it. It seems like the vax is not that effective, otherwise I would consider it for myself at least, or maybe the boys, if they are not immune. I've always been anti-vax, but pertussis is no joke! Its making me look for balanced research, unfortunately there seems to be none.

[jillc512]

Originally Posted by liseux

I have a question about pertussis : once a person gets it, are they immune for life? Or can they keep getting it?

My 3 boys had it last summer and it was a NIGHTMARE! They are all unvaxed, the oldest caught it from a vaxed kid (health dept. was involved & traced it) at a day camp. My oldest gave it to his 2 younger brothers and to a vaxed neighbor. The vaxed kids had it for 2 weeks, my boys coughed until they threw up for 30 days, but coughed constantly for 100 days. The sickest of my 3 kids was my 5 yr old, he lost a lot of weight, even with us keeping food coming constantly.

I have a newborn now and I know its around & wonder if my other kids could still catch it. It seems like the vax is not that effective, otherwise I would consider it for myself at least, or maybe the boys, if they are not immune. I've always been anti-vax, but pertussis is no joke! Its making me look for balanced research, unfortunately there seems to be none.

It's unclear whether natural immunity for pertussis is lifelong. From the CDC pertussis guide: "Immunity following natural disease may wane over time and exposure to the organism with asymptomatic or symptomatic infection may be needed to maintain effective protection. However, some experts believe that immunity following natural disease is lifelong. To our knowledge, there are no published reports of positive culture results from 2 separate episodes of pertussis among children aged <7 years, although there are anecdotal reports of studies in which adult patients self-report a past episode of pertussis." So, it is highly likely that your kids are still immune, but that their natural immunity may wane over time without re-exposure.

[anewmama]

I would also add that some research shows that the vax might lessen the symptoms so while not 100%, and with a clear failure rate, a potentially milder run of the disease might be important to people to warrant the shot.

[ema-adama]

Originally Posted by anewmama

I would also add that some research shows that the vax might lessen the symptoms so while not 100%, and with a clear failure rate, a potentially milder run of the disease might be important to people to warrant the shot.

Do you have any links showing the number of vaccinated children who have milder forms of the disease? Or can you point me in the direction of a discussion that addresses this?

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by carriebft

reuters article:

http://www.reuters.com/article/lates.../idUSN22371634



The study:

http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...urcetype=HWCIT

I thought it appropriate to also post the e-letters in response to this study. One happens to be by Hilary Butler


http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...ers/123/6/1446

[Fyrestorm]

Originally Posted by anewmama

I would also add that some research shows that the vax might lessen the symptoms so while not 100%, and with a clear failure rate, a potentially milder run of the disease might be important to people to warrant the shot.

And...how would they know that these children would have had a more severe case without the vaccine? Are they psychic? Did they travel back from an alternate future where the children didn't have the vaccine...

Lord, I hate that argument!

[Peppermint]

My 3 oldest kids had a disease in which their symptoms were exactly those of pertussis, iykwim. They were never diagnoses with pertussis. My DD was in school at the time, and brought home a "cold" that in her was a nasty one for 2 weeks (she was fully vaxed for pertussis). In her younger brothers (one fully vaxed, one partially vaxed -3 out of 4) it lasted just over 3 months, had a "whoop" sound, and the coughing up of white jell-like substance for weeks.

Now- since they were all vaccinated, the Dr. absolutely refused to consider pertussis, and instead diagnosed croup, bronchitis and allergies over the course of those months. Eventually, their croup, bronchitis, allergies cleared up, as I said, at just over 3 months of extreme coughing.

I believe many, if not most, Dr.s have a complete blindspot to pertussis in vaccinated children.

I am happy that an attempt is being made to study vaxed vs. unvaxed, but- I have heard way too many cases like what happened to us to believe any conclusions made about pertussis vaccination.

[be11ydancer]

My unvaxed 3 and 5 year olds have been diagnosed yesterday with whooping cough. They caught it from my vaxed 8 year old who was diagnosed with asthma. After her three weeks of coughing, the "asthma" suddenly cleared up and her sisters started coughing at night. I took them to the doc and told the doc flat out that I know this is whooping cough. They were tested and here we are. Haven't slept in about a week because my littlest coughs so badly, gasping for air and sometimes puking and the idea of this continuing for up to three months is insanity. This disease really bites. We are all on zithromax for five days to make us not contagious anymore. The health dept called and they are trying to track where it came from (probably school).

According to their doc, once you've had it, you are immune for about ten years.

[stacey05]

be11ydancer,

I am sorry you and your children are going through this. WC scares me in that I think it would be horrible to see your kids gasp for air and cough so much. I just don't like the idea of the shot either and that they could still get it even if immnunized.

I just wanted to ask if you knew about giving large doses of sodium ascorbate ( a form of vit. c) for wc? Lots of moms on here swear by it...they say it reduces the severity of the disease and may shorten the duration. Just wanted to throw that out there in case you hadn't read about that treatment.

I hope they get better quickly and you all can get some sleep!

[Sileree]

I had saved a study (I think by James Cherry) that said that pertussis vaccine protection and diagnosis of "mild disease" by doctors in studies was due to bias. Unfortunately I lost it. Doh. But this is why I am dubious of that claim.

[Peppermint]

Yes, please do the sodium ascorbate treatment, it should really cut down the length of the illness. Also- make sure you are all taking a really good probiotic while you take the antibiotic, I have read that some antibiotics can make the actual pertussis worse, since it doesn't heal the pertussis, but does kill the good gut flora.

[13Sandals]

The study is from 'medical records' and it is worthless. Some of the vaccinated kids could have easily had a case of pertussis that was diagnosed as something else at any time. There is absolutely no way to know whether the vaccinated kids actually escaped pertussis or not. And as we see from some of the posters here - doctors are still reluctant to diagnose or even test for pertussis in kids whose shots are up to date. These doctors recorded 'croup' on a medical record because the shots were up to date. Maybe it was pertussis. We don't know, the doctor doesn't know, but it gets counted as 'hey the vaccine worked in this case!' and goes toward that percentage. The study is fatally flawed.

Secondly, pertussis immunity is not life-long, either by vaccine or natural acquisition. Bacterial vaccines wear off. That is why the CDC now recommends that adults and teens (requires in case of teens in some states) get revaccinated.

They say cases are going up - this is not necessarily true. Its just that they now admit that adults and teens get pertussis all the time because immunity wears off. This has always been the case even though they are just admitting the vaccines' weaknesses. Adults and teens have always been reservoirs to spread pertussis to those vulnerable. And if you read the TDaP insert - it clearly states that this may still be the case amoung newlyvaccinated teens and adults. The 'do it for Sophie' campaign is an utter falsehood of information.

They now require 5 shots of pertussis by kindergarten and a booster at 12 and a booster for college and tell you to keep the booster updated as an adult. If 5 shots is only good for 7 years...geez - build a better product!

Until then - count me out!