Seems like GD is failing for my 4 yo. Need help. (LONG) - Page 2

[aran]

Originally Posted by Carley

I dunno if he'll like having his own cleaning supplies, but he might!

It might! He'll need to have the "better" ones though... he knows the difference. I might try this.

But we start to get into some intractable problems when it comes to carpentry and mowing the lawn, though. Unfortunately DH opened those cans of worms, and now DS1 won't let DH do either of those without his "help." Like you said - I hope DS1 is always so motivated to help us around the house!

[momma_unlimited]

Just wanted to pop in and say I really appreciate everything in this thread... really encouraged me on a down day after my 4yo randomly bit his playdate friend in a fit of excitement.

I'm pregnant and have two little ones, and I feel like my older ds needs more social time- but yet, it is so exhausting to monitor playdates, or to know when they are going to suddenly need to end because the kids get too tired/hyper to interact positively! Sometimes I feel like just hiding out on our 20 acres.

It is SO hard for me to be the mother I want to be- calm and gentle. I didn't spank him, I didn't yell- but I did grab him rather roughly to bring him up to his room and remove him (he was obviously on a downward spiral and too hyper to calm down in friend's presence). He screamed and kicked his door for a while while I *breathed* and said goodbye to our friends... we talked about it calmly later. Is that enough? Like OP, I feel like I ought to "punish"; but I also feel like this will just push him away from me/dissuade him following my guidelines in the future.

[webjefita]

I have a discussion of Hold On To Your Kids going on in the book forum with more on that, in case anyone is interested.

aran, those are great updates! I think the thing with the hammer throwing sounds like it was handled really well, and that he showed remorse is exactly the kind of result we want from being more empathetic! and it's great that he is hitting less!

Our sons sound very similar. Mine has become so argumentative lately, too. His thing is to say to me, "Well I know I know more than you" So much of that I let go now. I do tell them often that my job is to take care of them.

As for the helping, I would rejoice! That is awesome! Mine is totally NOT interested in helping, ever, so I'm coming from the other side of that. I don't want to force him, I want him to want to join in, but he's so unmotivated. Again, maybe remembering that the most important thing in that moment was that he was following you and joining in, helping out, and not the actual cleanliness of the floors. Cause that (his desire to help out) is something that will grow over the years and continue to reinforce his attachment to the family and to the work ethic. I probably don't understand how frustrating it is for you when to finish up the job, maybe it is that he is being too controlling of the activity or not taking direction about it? I'm sure there are ways to work on this, eventually, again when the relationship is healed. good luck!

[aran]

momma_unlimited: I hear you on the socializing front! It feels like a *lot* of work with my DS1, too. I end up going on a lot of "field trips" that don't involve socializing just to meet his need for something different to do, without the stress of monitoring and "helping" him socialize. Luckily, we live in an area with many "field trip" opportunities.

I have also done the rough grab thing with DS1. At the time I do it, I feel like nothing else is getting his attention. It helps me avoid doing that if I try to think of it from his point of view, but not every single time. Kudos to you for doing such a good job when pregnant. I am very cross when I am pregnant, and found gentleness extra difficult.

webjefita: I really like your response, that "It's my job to take care of you." That puts the "who knows best" argument to rest. The thing I have done when DS1 "knows best" is say "Do you feel like you know more than DS2?" Of course, DS1 responds, "Yes, I know a lot more than him." I respond, "Yes, you have learned a lot more because you have lived for almost three years more than he has. Now think of how I must feel. I have lived 32 years more than you!" It gets him thinking, even if he still disagrees with me!

Thank you for the alternative perspective on the helping issue. You are right. I should rejoice. And I am happy his nature is to help. I am sure it is hard to imagine from your perspective why I would complain. But it is a both a blessing and a curse at this age... for example, we have a playroom in the basement that DH has been refinishing for over three years. The reason? DS1 has to "help" with every.single.thing. If DS1 is in the house and DH begins working, DS1 will do everything in his power to be involved. If DH wants to get anything dangerous or intricate done, I have to take DS1 out on errands. It's true that I don't want to hinder DS1's desire to help... but right now when it's time to finish a project (in our house full of unfinished projects) I feel like :

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Another update:

Yesterday was not the greatest. But rationally, I know it was because DS1 was overtired from a long day outside on the previous day. It was hot and humid in the afternoon, and I was going to let the kids wash the car to help cool off and get something done at the same time. They were excited. DS1 wanted to be in charge of the hose, but inadvertently sprayed DS2 too harshly several times, but DS2 kind of shook it off. DS1 needed constant reminders to be mindful of where other people were standing relative to the spray. Every time DS2 used the hose, DS1 would say "That's enough. Stop." and try to take it from him. I asked DS1 several times, in several ways, to share the hose. In retrospect, his lack of sharing was really annoying me, and I think it put me in a negative mindset toward DS1 though I didn't recognize it at the time. Later DS2 inadvertently sprayed DS1 too harshly, and DS1 *flipped out.* I gave hugs and then said that getting sprayed was part of washing the car, noting that he had sprayed both DS2 and me several times already. But DS1 wasn't ready to let go of his anger and he started doing little mean things to DS2 and pretending they were accidents. He also said he thought I should lock DS2 in a room upstairs so DS1 could wash the car alone. Fast forward 15 minutes... I ended up roughly grabbing DS1 by the shoulders and speaking sternly and firmly in his face, saying I didn't like what he was doing or saying to DS2. DS1 ended up clinging to me after that while I gently told him and DS2 four stories about people letting go of their anger even though they felt justified in their anger (one was from the excellent book, Zen Shorts). After stories, it was like DS1 was a new man, and completely free of his anger toward DS2. BUT - I want to get to the gentle story-telling *without* the stern words-bordering-on-yelling/rough shoulder hold thing that I did first. Hmmm. What can I do to get from us being riled up and closed to each other's ideas to us being cuddled up telling healing stories more smoothly? Or even avoid the riled up part. I need to think about that...

[momma_unlimited]

Hmmm. What can I do to get from us being riled up and closed to each other's ideas to us being cuddled up telling healing stories more smoothly? Or even avoid the riled up part.

My best experiences with avoiding getting riled up have occurred when I have diligently- 5 minutes a day before falling asleep- practiced objectivity via a meditative exercise I learned about. Here's an explanation I found online that sums it up without me having to type a lot:

"A simple meditation technique drawn from Rudolf Steiner's Ruckschau Meditation can be helpful for reducing stress. The technique consists of reviewing each day's events (beginning with the most recent event and going backwards through the day), as if watching a film of someone else's life. While doing this meditation each evening, Dr. Cowan suggests fostering an objective, philosophical view, taking a long-term perspective. Instead of seeing the day's events as the whole book of your life, view them as paragraphs in a much longer volume. Dr. Cowan points out that 'it is the perception of the events in our lives that affects our physiology, not the actual events'..."

I find that this exercise strengthens the part of me that often becomes lost in emotion or thought pattern- it empowers that "objective me" who decides which emotions and thought patterns to dwell on or identify with. Plus, when I view myself as if I'm watching someone else's life, I end up feeling compassionate towards myself (when I am not objective, I tend to be my worst critic).

That exercise takes a bit of time to start to see results, and if I'm already riled up in the moment, I put on some really rockin' tunes- so I can barely hear any whining or complaining- and dance until I calm down. If I feel like yelling, I just sing along really loud. I'd rather have my kids think I'm kinda crazy than mean. My husband travels (he's gone til Sunday!) and this is how I cope when I have nothing left.

[aran]

momma_unlimited: That meditation technique seems like it could be useful. I do tend to think over my day every evening before I fall asleep, but not in such a methodical way, so perhaps I end up not thinking through whole cause-event chains and also - because I am not explicitly trying to look at the day from an objective point of view - I allow myself to re-run the emotions also, which can keep me awake too long.

The music thing is something we do too if we are near a source for music. Since we have been spending so much time outside with no access to music, music is playing less of a role. I recently rediscovered a song I liked when I was young and wild(er). Public Image Limited's "Rise." It is a very high energy song, and has a loud, energetic repeating refrain "Anger is an energy! Anger is an energy!..." I sometimes play that song loudly, and my kids (esp. DS1) get very into it, dancing, spinning, singing). I find it cathartic.

I think I need to start making a list of "tools" because there are so many things I know I can and should do to better help and/or avoid behavior "situations" but I just am not reaching for the right tool at the time - often forgetting about its existence. Thanks for the reminder.