A Drug to End Drug Addiction

[ema-adama]

http://www.time.com/time/health/arti...701864,00.html

Researchers in labs around the world are now developing vaccines (not a pill, but an injection) to inoculate people against dangerously addictive substances such as cocaine, heroin and methamphetamine. Within "one to 10 years, and closer to one year," says Dr. Frank Vocci, director of treatment research and development at the National Institute of Drug Abuse (NIDA), scientists may produce a vaccine against cocaine — one of the more promising areas of research — that can potentially help millions of addicts, two million in the U.S. alone.

I did not know that this was in the pipeline...

[littlecindy]

Originally Posted by ema-adama

http://www.time.com/time/health/arti...701864,00.html



I did not know that this was in the pipeline...

as a recovering addict, i have passionate feelings on this. i honestly am grateful for my struggles with addiction. whether i ever touched a drug or not, i have behavior/thoughts/issues that would be there, no matter what. drugs actually provided me with an opportunity to look at those issues. because of addiction, i couldn't "ignore" those issues. it's quite possible i would be terribly miserable without having gone through addiction and recovery.

like this... people who received the vaccine were twice as likely to reduce their cocaine use by at least 50%.

what good does that do? so you reduce your use by 50%? well, the other 50% can still kill you. and if it doesn't, it just makes your life more manageable WHILE using, in effect, prolonging your addiction.

i wholeheartedly disagree with this:

"Addiction is a medical problem that needs to be treated as a medical problem."

it BECOMES a medical problem once you are physically addicted. but addiction is a mental, emotional and spiritual problem. the only reason people have worked to have it classified as a disease are because it's fatal and incurable and health insurance will pay for treatment if we call it a medical "disease."

focusing on the medical aspect of addiction doesn't do any good, because it ignores the ways in which our society and our family dynamics contribute to addiction. it's treating the symptoms, not the cause.

beyond all that, do we really wanna start messing with our brain receptors like this? seriously...

[caned & able]

Addiction is a behavior.

How can a vaccine keep someone from talking/shopping/eating/drinking/exercising too much?

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by littlecindy

as a recovering addict, i have passionate feelings on this. i honestly am grateful for my struggles with addiction. whether i ever touched a drug or not, i have behavior/thoughts/issues that would be there, no matter what. drugs actually provided me with an opportunity to look at those issues. because of addiction, i couldn't "ignore" those issues. it's quite possible i would be terribly miserable without having gone through addiction and recovery.

like this... people who received the vaccine were twice as likely to reduce their cocaine use by at least 50%.

what good does that do? so you reduce your use by 50%? well, the other 50% can still kill you. and if it doesn't, it just makes your life more manageable WHILE using, in effect, prolonging your addiction.

i wholeheartedly disagree with this:

"Addiction is a medical problem that needs to be treated as a medical problem."

it BECOMES a medical problem once you are physically addicted. but addiction is a mental, emotional and spiritual problem. the only reason people have worked to have it classified as a disease are because it's fatal and incurable and health insurance will pay for treatment if we call it a medical "disease."

focusing on the medical aspect of addiction doesn't do any good, because it ignores the ways in which our society and our family dynamics contribute to addiction. it's treating the symptoms, not the cause.

beyond all that, do we really wanna start messing with our brain receptors like this? seriously...

As a LADC I couldn't agree with you more

[littlecindy]

Originally Posted by caned & able

Addiction is a behavior.

How can a vaccine keep someone from talking/shopping/eating/drinking/exercising too much?

can reduce the rate of uptake of cocaine and slow the high

by blocking the synapses or filling them so the drugs can't get "in." like methadone, it basically blocks the receptors that make one high, and gives you a lesser buzz than heroin would. probably not that unlike how an antidepressant changes how the uptake of seratonin in your brain, but in the reverse?

how they could do this with a one-time shot, i have no idea. a pill, a recurring shot (like methadone) maybe.

i still don't like it...

[littlecindy]

it would be interesting to see how the general public would react to this... giving your child a shot for future drug use is like giving them a shot for future teenage sexual behavior (like gardasil?).

[Sasharna]

That sounds awful. There are reasons why we have those happy chemicals in our bodies and brains! I can't imagine how they could inject you with something that stops cocaine from affecting your brain but still lets you derive enjoyment from a piece of chocolate cake or an outing to the beach. I don't want to be a zombie, thanks. :

When it comes to public health, imho these people need to stop messing with stuff they freely admit they don't even understand.

[ema-adama]

Originally Posted by littlecindy

focusing on the medical aspect of addiction doesn't do any good, because it ignores the ways in which our society and our family dynamics contribute to addiction. it's treating the symptoms, not the cause.

beyond all that, do we really wanna start messing with our brain receptors like this? seriously...

I wholeheartedly agree with you. I honestly had never even entertained the idea that you could have a vaccine for something like addiction - as in a behavior.

from the Time article:

The regimen also requires commitment, involving as many as five shots in three months, plus boosters every two months thereafter. "You have to want to quit. The addict has to want to stop" for the vaccine to work, says NIDA's Vocci.

This makes it sound like you are replacing one drug with another and the money that changes hands goes to the drug companies rather than the drug dealers : and that if you don't want to change (the corner stone of beating addiction) you won't be able to, even with this vaccine. The vaccine in no way addresses the behavioral component of addiction. Which makes me wonder how useful it really could be..... And yet this vaccine is being earmarked as one of the vaccines to bring in good revenue....

[emma1325]

Originally Posted by ema-adama

http://www.time.com/time/health/arti...701864,00.html



I did not know that this was in the pipeline...

I wish I could feel like but, unfortunately, it doesn't shock me at all. In fact, I'm waiting for them to come out with a vaccine for obesity.


I was just complaining the other day how we have drugs now to help people quit smoking. I don't mean to offend anyone who has used these, but the fact that they exist make me so mad! I'll bet Philip Morris owns stock in the pharma companies that make these drugs.

[EENS]

Originally Posted by ema-adama

This makes it sound like you are replacing one drug with another and the money that changes hands goes to the drug companies rather than the drug dealers : and that if you don't want to change (the corner stone of beating addiction) you won't be able to, even with this vaccine.

I think you put that very well.

[caned & able]

In fact, I'm waiting for them to come out with a vaccine for obesity.

Such a vaccine has been in the workings for years.

[lauradbg]

Originally Posted by Sasharna

When it comes to public health, imho these people need to stop messing with stuff they freely admit they don't even understand.

: Exactly.

[littlecindy]

Originally Posted by ema-adama

I wholeheartedly agree with you. I honestly had never even entertained the idea that you could have a vaccine for something like addiction - as in a behavior.

from the Time article:

This makes it sound like you are replacing one drug with another

so this is just a methadone for coke really...

[mamakah]

Originally Posted by littlecindy

it would be interesting to see how the general public would react to this... giving your child a shot for future drug use is like giving them a shot for future teenage sexual behavior (like gardasil?).

Well, the public seems to have accepted injecting their 12-48 hr olds with Hep B. That to me is "in case" of future drug use and sexual behavior.
Gardasil is just another example. This is gettting waaaaaayyyyyy out of control. (well it has been for awhile...)

[mlec]

PP have brought up some very good points against this vaccine.

Here's another: I believe I read earlier that it works by messing with the pleasure sensations in the brain (wording this badly, I know). But how scary is that?! So someone won't use cocaine b/c it won't make them feel good b/c they've been immunized against a sensation?! Who knows what else it ruins in your brain.

[aniT]

Originally Posted by emma1325

I'll bet Philip Morris owns stock in the pharma companies that make these drugs.

Philip Morris donates a lot of money to groups to find better ways to quit. They also have information on their website free of charge to help people who want to quit. The son took over some years ago and this is his doing I understand.

I really don't think they have anything to do with the patch or anything other stop smoking products. I believe those were designed by pharma companies to cash in on people who want to quit smoking. Just like this vaccine is going to cash in on people who want to stop doing drugs.

[claddaghmom]

Originally Posted by ema-adama

I wholeheartedly agree with you. I honestly had never even entertained the idea that you could have a vaccine for something like addiction - as in a behavior.

from the Time article:

This makes it sound like you are replacing one drug with another and the money that changes hands goes to the drug companies rather than the drug dealers : and that if you don't want to change (the corner stone of beating addiction) you won't be able to, even with this vaccine. The vaccine in no way addresses the behavioral component of addiction. Which makes me wonder how useful it really could be..... And yet this vaccine is being earmarked as one of the vaccines to bring in good revenue....

Oh my I won't jump on the conspiracy theorist bandwagon but seriously? This reminds me of Owellian or "the giver" situations...take a pill everyday so you don't "feel" anything... huh.

[ammiga]

Originally Posted by aniT

Philip Morris donates a lot of money to groups to find better ways to quit. They also have information on their website free of charge to help people who want to quit. The son took over some years ago and this is his doing I understand.

I really don't think they have anything to do with the patch or anything other stop smoking products. I believe those were designed by pharma companies to cash in on people who want to quit smoking. Just like this vaccine is going to cash in on people who want to stop doing drugs.

I think they are required to donate money by court order. They have also been accused numerous times of employing reverse psychology in their anti-smoking campaigns.

I'm guessing that the drug companies will pair the vaccine with heavy duty counseling, so that it has greater success. The funny thing is, that if people were that committed to the counseling, they would probably kick the addiction without the vaccine.

Everyone I know that kicked an addiction did it by replacing one addiction with another... but they moved on to a healthier addiction. The reason that this new vax will work is because people are replacing their cocaine addiction with the "addiction" to getting all those boosters. Pair that with the counseling, and many probably will kick the addiction.

[zylph]

Originally Posted by littlecindy

can reduce the rate of uptake of cocaine and slow the high

by blocking the synapses or filling them so the drugs can't get "in." like methadone, it basically blocks the receptors that make one high, and gives you a lesser buzz than heroin would. probably not that unlike how an antidepressant changes how the uptake of seratonin in your brain, but in the reverse?

how they could do this with a one-time shot, i have no idea. a pill, a recurring shot (like methadone) maybe.

i still don't like it...

It's not a vaccine against neurotransmitter receptors/reuptake receptors/neurotransmitters. It's a vaccine against cocaine itself (or nicotine or meth or heroin). Basically, the vaccine is an inactivated cholera toxin adjuvant (immune stimulator) hooked up to a derivative of the cocaine molecule. The immune system gets aggravated by the cholera toxin and makes antibodies against both the cholera toxin and the cocaine molecule. It's not a drug against sensations or normal functioning of the brain (the Time article seems to be worried that the nicotine vaccine could have cross-reactivity with the natural acetylcholine neurotransmitter, but they are pretty different molecules).

There are three reasons why this vaccine is not so effective (many boosters, etc. are required). One, because this vaccine is being tested in a country where almost nobody has cholera or has been vaccinated against cholera, two vaccine doses are needed in order to get the immune system good and pissed off about the cholera toxin and make antibodies against it and cocaine. Two, the cocaine molecule itself is pretty small and doesn't really bother the immune system a whole lot. Most good antibodies are against big things that you would find on pathogens - proteins or complex sugars. So to keep the levels of antibodies up, patients have to keep being boosted. Three, your immune system is good, but it's not that good. For this vaccine to be effective, it has to stop the cocaine from getting to the brain. For moderate/high addiction, the immune system has to clear out a typical dose of 50-100 mg of cocaine in a matter of minutes, if not seconds (that is a lot for it to handle). If you don't want to quit, you're just going to up your cocaine dose to where your immune system can't clear it out it in time.

As someone who has tried to quit smoking a few times, using the patch, etc., I have to say that making the drug not affect you (which happens when you use the patch) goes a long way in terms of prolonging the quitting behavior. If you slip and have a cigarette but it doesn't do anything, you feel terrible about slipping plus you don't even get the rush. This cocaine vaccine does not sound like a cure-all and will have to be paired with counseling for effective treatment. But it did make counseling twice as effective, and let's face it here, these types of vaccines are out there to try to stop some pretty profoundly unhealthy behavior.

[zylph]

Originally Posted by littlecindy

can reduce the rate of uptake of cocaine and slow the high

by blocking the synapses or filling them so the drugs can't get "in." like methadone, it basically blocks the receptors that make one high, and gives you a lesser buzz than heroin would. probably not that unlike how an antidepressant changes how the uptake of seratonin in your brain, but in the reverse?

how they could do this with a one-time shot, i have no idea. a pill, a recurring shot (like methadone) maybe.

i still don't like it...

It's not a vaccine against neurotransmitter receptors/reuptake receptors/neurotransmitters. It's a vaccine against cocaine itself (or nicotine or meth or heroin). Basically, the vaccine is an inactivated cholera toxin adjuvant (immune stimulator) hooked up to a derivative of the cocaine molecule. The immune system gets aggravated by the cholera toxin and makes antibodies against both the cholera toxin and the cocaine molecule. It's not a drug against sensations or normal functioning of the brain (the Time article seems to be worried that the nicotine vaccine could have cross-reactivity with the natural acetylcholine neurotransmitter, but they are pretty different molecules).

There are three reasons why this vaccine is not so effective (many boosters, etc. are required). One, because this vaccine is being tested in a country where almost nobody has cholera or has been vaccinated against cholera, two vaccine doses are needed in order to get the immune system good and pissed off about the cholera toxin and make antibodies against it and cocaine. Two, the cocaine molecule itself is pretty small and doesn't really bother the immune system a whole lot. Most good antibodies are against big things that you would find on pathogens - proteins or complex sugars. So to keep the levels of antibodies up, patients have to keep being boosted. Three, your immune system is good, but it's not that good. For this vaccine to be effective, it has to stop the cocaine from getting to the brain. For moderate/high addiction, the immune system has to clear out a typical dose of 50-100 mg of cocaine in a matter of minutes, if not seconds (that is a lot for it to handle). If you don't want to quit, you're just going to up your cocaine dose to where your immune system can't clear it out it in time.

As someone who has tried to quit smoking a few times, using the patch, etc., I have to say that making the drug not affect you (which happens when you use the patch) goes a long way in terms of prolonging the quitting behavior. If you slip and have a cigarette but it doesn't do anything, you feel terrible about slipping plus you don't even get the rush. This cocaine vaccine does not sound like a cure-all and will have to be paired with counseling for effective treatment. But it did make counseling twice as effective, and let's face it here, these types of vaccines are out there to try to stop some pretty profoundly unhealthy behavior.