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Doctor says NO to prenatal vitamins?! - Page 3

post #41 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leilalu View Post
I guess I just have to respectfully disagree I was a veggie for years and never felt worse! I actually regret having eaten so little meat before becoming pregnant with my first.

I don't want to fight with anybody. I just know I would want to know the whole story and not be misinformed when it comes to something as serious as healthy eating and childbearing.

There are numerous cultures that thrive on high fat, high meat consumption diets. I would also be curious to know what else those people in China were eating and whether they also have fish or fish oils, seaweeds, fermented foods, etc.
Well, I suppose the only way you'd find out is if you actually read the aforementioned book.

But isn't it great how there are all these different groups of people whose bodies have adapted to different types of food diets? I mean, it's amazing if you just compare, say, the Indian Hindu diet to the Inuit diet.
post #42 of 77
I do not take a prenatal vitamin now, but I did with my last. It made me feel better about not being super vigilant about nutrition in the last few months when all I wanted to do was eat ice cream and sleep.

I take a B-12 and a calcium supplement because I cannot eat much right now, especially milky things, and so maybe some of it is sticking around. Maybe not, but I feel less queasy with a B12, and I feel less guilty with a Calcium supplement.

I'm a little confused about this talk of animal Vitamin A. I have always gotten plenty of Vitamin A from Fruits and Veggies. I have never heard that Vitamin A from Animals is better for you than Vitamin A from plants.

In fact the studies I have read show that babies of vegan and vegetarin moms generally have higher birth weights, and suffer less from infant illnesses. There have even been studies that show that children of vegetarin moms tested higher on IQ tests than those of meat eating moms...but I don't put much stock in those tests, myself.

So I guess I am a bit confused.

That being said, my dad used to have this book called the blood type diet, or something, and it said that certain blood types are better off eating high amounts of red meat, others should try to be vegetarian and others, chicken or fish. My blood type (B-) is better off eating as little meat as possible, small amounts of fish at times. Since becoming vegetarian I have never felt better. My life long asthma has disappeared, I feel lighter, happier, stronger...for ME it's great, but when I am pregnant, I need a little B boost. DH (O+) tried going Veg and just about fainted from weakness.

I think everyone knows what their body needs, ya know?

I have heard that Vitamin A even of the plant kind can be toxic, so I try to monitor it and I probably wouldn't take a supplement that has Vit A in it, just for my own peace of mind.
post #43 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by misswerewolf View Post
Well, I suppose the only way you'd find out is if you actually read the aforementioned book.

But isn't it great how there are all these different groups of people whose bodies have adapted to different types of food diets? I mean, it's amazing if you just compare, say, the Indian Hindu diet to the Inuit diet.
Yes, I suppose reading the book may help. So would reading the links I provided.

I think I am opting out of this thread for now.
post #44 of 77

Vitamins - Will you trust corporate agendas, or your own instinct?

Leilalu - I am very impressed with your knowledge of real nutrition- which is woefully inadequate among most Americans. (But there are corporate/political reasons for this ... which would take a whole other thread to explain.) IMHO, one could not rely upon better information sources than Adelle Davis or the Weston A. Price Foundation (www.westonaprice.org) for TRUTHFUL information on how to maintain glowing good health - - as the native peoples of the world have, for millenia.

You all may be noticing a LOT of "negative press" lately, charging that vitamins are a waste. Please do NOT believe it. Most of the studies "proving" that vitamin supplements are worthless, are inadequate studies - using doses that are far too small to effect any efficacy. Moreover, these "studies" are often funded by pharmaceutical companies, or corporate agribiz interests. The pharmas would like nothing better than to make it a legal requirement to obtain a prescription for ANY vitamin supplement that comes in a DOSE that can do you any good. And Mega-Food Mfrs. would prefer to have us content in the belief that their overprocessed, denatured, and additive-laden ersatz foods are actually "nutritious!"

For those of you who have never heard of the "Codex Alimentarius" here is a primer. It is an "International Trade Agreement" which is about to go into effect 12/31/09, and may eventually make it practically impossible for citizens to access vitamin supplements without a prescription. For those of us who have been proponents/users of nutritional supplements, this "trade agreement" represents an assault against personal freedom, and can compromise the health of millions. If you would like to learn more about Codex, please see Dr. Rita Laibow's informative video on the subject, here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkehT...e=channel_page

Also, FYI, the AMA falls into lock-step with whatever are the current Corporate nutritional "guidelines du jour" - esp. those promulgated by the pharmaceutical industry. They have hefty PR budgets to be sure you will hear their "opinions"... and plenty of influence at Congress, and with the FDA. Thus, your docs are currently advising you to drop the pre-natals. (But please take this advice with a LARGE grain of salt, and the following caveats below!)

Leilalu - Your mention of Adelle Davis' Book "Let's Have Healthy Children" made me jump for joy! I own many of this gifted biochemist's books, and have long considered her to be my personal "Goddess of Nutrition." You are only partially correct, however, in asserting that Ms. Davis advocated only "whole food" sources for excellent nutrition in pregnancy. Davis prescribed generous amounts of liver, brewers yeast and wheat germ to pregnant women to assure them good sources of the all-important B vitamins. These are, admittedly, mainly "whole foods" - but how many of us have them in our pantrys right now?

Davis did, however, add supplements to her adopted daughter's infant formulas, as she considered the commercial varieties to be woefully inadequate. (Please review Chapter 19 of her book "Let's Have Healthy Children" entitled: "Making a Formula Adequate." Davis added Yogurt, calcium/magnesium powders, brewers yeast, and vitamin C, to her children's bottles.)

As with so many other nutrition issues in which Davis was "ahead of her time," she was also a huge proponent of breast-feeding. And she also recommended giving small children the healthful benefits of RAW whole milk, whenever possible.

As a long-time student of nutrition and genetics, I have used vitamin supplements for years - BUT, with the following caveats:

1) I never take multi-vitamins. There is no such thing as a "one size fits all" multi-vitamin, any more than there is a "one size fits all" shoe. Moreover, there are pitfalls to multis, such as the inclusion of Iron with vitamin E - iron oxidizes the E, making it literally worthless. Moreover, the broad inclusion of minerals can actually harm some people with specific medical needs. Iodine is widely available since table salt is generously "fortified" with iodine, and salt is added to literally everything we eat - but to an undiagnosed HYPERthyroid, for example, vitamin supplements with added iodine might potentially cause a life threatening "thryoid storm!" Therefore when I take vitamin supplements, I take them "separately" - B complex, C, E and etc., so I know exactly what I am ingesting, and can control the dose as my nutritional needs may change. (Ankle swelling, for example, indicates a need for more B vitamins - or a rare sore throat, for more C.)

2) I never purchase vitamin supplements from a drug or grocery store. Unless you are buying supplements from a reputable local "health food store" you are likely getting the most cheaply made varieties, which often include unnecessary "fillers" (or even food color), which can cause gastrointestinal irritation, or other unwanted side-effects. The only caveat to this rule is Whole Foods Market brands, or supplements ordered for you by prescription for specific needs. But the "over the counter" stuff is to be avoided, in general, IMO.

So, it is little wonder to see so many of you complain about pre-natals making you ill. Therefore, take them, or don't.

But be aware that if you are experiencing nausea; Adelle Davis would recommend you try Vitamin B6 (200 mg daily, to get it under control), as well as making certain that your blood sugar levels are kept steady. But please also consider that taking one of the Bs without the others for too long, can actually cause a deficiency in one of the other 20 B vitamins. They are always found together in natural food sources, because they all work together, synergistically. Therefore, unless you are eating liver, whole grain breads and cereals (exclusively), or taking brewers yeast in smoothies; taking a B-Complex tablet might be the easiest way to get these important body-regulating nutrients. Let's not forget that the water-soluable B vitamins are known as the "anti-stress" supplements, and can boost one's energy.

I would also listen to the advice of 2X Nobel Prize winner Linus Pauling on the use of vitamin C, (in order to avoid infections and supply the nutrient that is vital to creating all cell walls); rather than to heed the advice of some populist PR writer, employed by a mega-pharma. I take 1,600 mg of vitamin C daily - minimum!

Moreover, natural (d-alpha) Vitamin E, used topically, can prevent stretch marks (and fade scars); but taken internally it "preserves" the body's oxygen, helping it to work more efficiently, and can promote soft skin and lustrous hair.

Vitamins A & D, found especially in egg yolks (which the "nutrition writers" would have you throw away!) are essential "building blocks" too! And if you are pregnant, isn't your baby actually "under construction?"

To those who would rely upon the advice of the nutrition fashionistas, I have often asked this question: "Does it really make sense to eliminate from your diet the very foods that nature provides to the world's tinyest living creatures? (Which are; milk and eggs?)" In reality, cholesterol "problems" are caused by high glycemic foods - sugar and white flour - NOT nature's "perfect" foods, which includes all dairy!

As to adding vitamin supplements, each person must gage his or her personal needs. I would never refute the need for extra folic acid for those TTC. Do you eat tons of leafy greens or lots of eggs? If not, you need to ensure that you add a supplement to your regime, preferably, pre-conception - but better late than never!

As for the Vitamin D controversy - I take Carlson Labs natural Cod Liver Oil in the winter, when I cannot sunbathe. According to Dr. Mercola (www.mercola.com), a day on the beach can cause my body to make as much as 400,000 IU of D. Can this be an "Overdose?" Not likely! Not when we have been created (or evolved) as "daylight" animals, who have spent most of our history out-of-doors! (Without the "protection" of chemically toxic sun blocks!) Little wonder scientists are "re-discovering" the many important functions of Vitamin D to health!

Another poster mentioned that the Inuit (eskimos) would not eat Polar Bear liver because it had an extremely high content of Vitamin A (again, considered to be "toxic" by "scientists"). This is not entirely correct. The Inuit do use this Mega-Dose food source of Vitamin A, but for one purpose: as a cure for snow blindness! (Which cure it can effect, literally, within hours.)

In sum, if you are content to suffer the various annoying symptoms of pregnancy, like swollen ankles, cholasma (dark skin patches), hemorrhoids, yeast infections, or exhaustion - which are considered to be "normal annoyances" by the medical community - don't bother taking steps to improve your nutrition, or to add any supplements to your diet.

But if you want enjoy glowing good health, and enjoy your pregnancy (and an easier delivery), that will bring forth a beautiful baby with superior health, NOW is the best time to improve your nutrition! And wholesome vitamin supplements, as indicated above, can play an important part in that goal.

Okay, I will get off my soapbox now... and I hope you will forgive this diatribe of my life's passion.

But I would also hope, that some of you might see the benefits of taking out some "nutritional insurance," in the form of some personally selected nutritional supplements - whether as whole foods, or in capsules. In these, exciting, precious, and hallowed months of your lives, you have the opportunity to build a healthy legacy for your entire family - one that simply cannot be measured in mere dollars.
post #45 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsNature View Post
Leilalu - I am very impressed with your knowledge of real nutrition- which is woefully inadequate among most Americans. (But there are corporate/political reasons for this ... which would take a whole other thread to explain.) IMHO, one could not rely upon better information sources than Adelle Davis or the Weston A. Price Foundation (www.westonaprice.org) for TRUTHFUL information on how to maintain glowing good health - - as the native peoples of the world have, for millenia.

You all may be noticing a LOT of "negative press" lately, charging that vitamins are a waste. Please do NOT believe it. Most of the studies "proving" that vitamin supplements are worthless, are inadequate studies - using doses that are far too small to effect any efficacy. Moreover, these "studies" are often funded by pharmaceutical companies, or corporate agribiz interests. The pharmas would like nothing better than to make it a legal requirement to obtain a prescription for ANY vitamin supplement that comes in a DOSE that can do you any good. And Mega-Food Mfrs. would prefer to have us content in the belief that their overprocessed, denatured, and additive-laden ersatz foods are actually "nutritious!"

For those of you who have never heard of the "Codex Alimentarius" here is a primer. It is an "International Trade Agreement" which is about to go into effect 12/31/09, and may eventually make it practically impossible for citizens to access vitamin supplements without a prescription. For those of us who have been proponents/users of nutritional supplements, this "trade agreement" represents an assault against personal freedom, and can compromise the health of millions. If you would like to learn more about Codex, please see Dr. Rita Laibow's informative video on the subject, here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkehT...e=channel_page

Also, FYI, the AMA falls into lock-step with whatever are the current Corporate nutritional "guidelines du jour" - esp. those promulgated by the pharmaceutical industry. They have hefty PR budgets to be sure you will hear their "opinions"... and plenty of influence at Congress, and with the FDA. Thus, your docs are currently advising you to drop the pre-natals. (But please take this advice with a LARGE grain of salt, and the following caveats below!)

Leilalu - Your mention of Adelle Davis' Book "Let's Have Healthy Children" made me jump for joy! I own many of this gifted biochemist's books, and have long considered her to be my personal "Goddess of Nutrition." You are only partially correct, however, in asserting that Ms. Davis advocated only "whole food" sources for excellent nutrition in pregnancy. Davis prescribed generous amounts of liver, brewers yeast and wheat germ to pregnant women to assure them good sources of the all-important B vitamins. These are, admittedly, mainly "whole foods" - but how many of us have them in our pantrys right now?

Davis did, however, add supplements to her adopted daughter's infant formulas, as she considered the commercial varieties to be woefully inadequate. (Please review Chapter 19 of her book "Let's Have Healthy Children" entitled: "Making a Formula Adequate." Davis added Yogurt, calcium/magnesium powders, brewers yeast, and vitamin C, to her children's bottles.)

As with so many other nutrition issues in which Davis was "ahead of her time," she was also a huge proponent of breast-feeding. And she also recommended giving small children the healthful benefits of RAW whole milk, whenever possible.

As a long-time student of nutrition and genetics, I have used vitamin supplements for years - BUT, with the following caveats:

1) I never take multi-vitamins. There is no such thing as a "one size fits all" multi-vitamin, any more than there is a "one size fits all" shoe. Moreover, there are pitfalls to multis, such as the inclusion of Iron with vitamin E - iron oxidizes the E, making it literally worthless. Moreover, the broad inclusion of minerals can actually harm some people with specific medical needs. Iodine is widely available since table salt is generously "fortified" with iodine, and salt is added to literally everything we eat - but to an undiagnosed HYPERthyroid, for example, vitamin supplements with added iodine might potentially cause a life threatening "thryoid storm!" Therefore when I take vitamin supplements, I take them "separately" - B complex, C, E and etc., so I know exactly what I am ingesting, and can control the dose as my nutritional needs may change. (Ankle swelling, for example, indicates a need for more B vitamins - or a rare sore throat, for more C.)

2) I never purchase vitamin supplements from a drug or grocery store. Unless you are buying supplements from a reputable local "health food store" you are likely getting the most cheaply made varieties, which often include unnecessary "fillers" (or even food color), which can cause gastrointestinal irritation, or other unwanted side-effects. The only caveat to this rule is Whole Foods Market brands, or supplements ordered for you by prescription for specific needs. But the "over the counter" stuff is to be avoided, in general, IMO.

So, it is little wonder to see so many of you complain about pre-natals making you ill. Therefore, take them, or don't.

But be aware that if you are experiencing nausea; Adelle Davis would recommend you try Vitamin B6 (200 mg daily, to get it under control), as well as making certain that your blood sugar levels are kept steady. But please also consider that taking one of the Bs without the others for too long, can actually cause a deficiency in one of the other 20 B vitamins. They are always found together in natural food sources, because they all work together, synergistically. Therefore, unless you are eating liver, whole grain breads and cereals (exclusively), or taking brewers yeast in smoothies; taking a B-Complex tablet might be the easiest way to get these important body-regulating nutrients. Let's not forget that the water-soluable B vitamins are known as the "anti-stress" supplements, and can boost one's energy.

I would also listen to the advice of 2X Nobel Prize winner Linus Pauling on the use of vitamin C, (in order to avoid infections and supply the nutrient that is vital to creating all cell walls); rather than to heed the advice of some populist PR writer, employed by a mega-pharma. I take 1,600 mg of vitamin C daily - minimum!

Moreover, natural (d-alpha) Vitamin E, used topically, can prevent stretch marks (and fade scars); but taken internally it "preserves" the body's oxygen, helping it to work more efficiently, and can promote soft skin and lustrous hair.

Vitamins A & D, found especially in egg yolks (which the "nutrition writers" would have you throw away!) are essential "building blocks" too! And if you are pregnant, isn't your baby actually "under construction?"

To those who would rely upon the advice of the nutrition fashionistas, I have often asked this question: "Does it really make sense to eliminate from your diet the very foods that nature provides to the world's tinyest living creatures? (Which are; milk and eggs?)" In reality, cholesterol "problems" are caused by high glycemic foods - sugar and white flour - NOT nature's "perfect" foods, which includes all dairy!

As to adding vitamin supplements, each person must gage his or her personal needs. I would never refute the need for extra folic acid for those TTC. Do you eat tons of leafy greens or lots of eggs? If not, you need to ensure that you add a supplement to your regime, preferably, pre-conception - but better late than never!

As for the Vitamin D controversy - I take Carlson Labs natural Cod Liver Oil in the winter, when I cannot sunbathe. According to Dr. Mercola (www.mercola.com), a day on the beach can cause my body to make as much as 400,000 IU of D. Can this be an "Overdose?" Not likely! Not when we have been created (or evolved) as "daylight" animals, who have spent most of our history out-of-doors! (Without the "protection" of chemically toxic sun blocks!) Little wonder scientists are "re-discovering" the many important functions of Vitamin D to health!

Another poster mentioned that the Inuit (eskimos) would not eat Polar Bear liver because it had an extremely high content of Vitamin A (again, considered to be "toxic" by "scientists"). This is not entirely correct. The Inuit do use this Mega-Dose food source of Vitamin A, but for one purpose: as a cure for snow blindness! (Which cure it can effect, literally, within hours.)

In sum, if you are content to suffer the various annoying symptoms of pregnancy, like swollen ankles, cholasma (dark skin patches), hemorrhoids, yeast infections, or exhaustion - which are considered to be "normal annoyances" by the medical community - don't bother taking steps to improve your nutrition, or to add any supplements to your diet.

But if you want enjoy glowing good health, and enjoy your pregnancy (and an easier delivery), that will bring forth a beautiful baby with superior health, NOW is the best time to improve your nutrition! And wholesome vitamin supplements, as indicated above, can play an important part in that goal.

Okay, I will get off my soapbox now... and I hope you will forgive this diatribe of my life's passion.

But I would also hope, that some of you might see the benefits of taking out some "nutritional insurance," in the form of some personally selected nutritional supplements - whether as whole foods, or in capsules. In these, exciting, precious, and hallowed months of your lives, you have the opportunity to build a healthy legacy for your entire family - one that simply cannot be measured in mere dollars.

thanks for the backup! sorry i didn't see this sooner!

I would have to say it is really one of my passions as well.I think that now more than ever is the time to thoroughly research food choices and evaluate what is healthy and what isn't. I truly believe you cannot build a healthy thriving human being on just anything. You need the essential building blocks such as real foods, whole supplements. (Not to say that any of us may even feel like eating right now!) But what you eat sets your child and their children up for either a legacy of health or sickness. There is no way around that-that's just how it works.
post #46 of 77
no vitamins here, but I did get quite a hankering half way through for spinach. bags and bags. I think I ate a few pounds a week for a while, but I figured that was the body saying "order up! folic acid please"!
post #47 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leilalu View Post
But what you eat sets your child and their children up for either a legacy of health or sickness. There is no way around that-that's just how it works.
"Amen, Sister!" And I'll gladly stand with you anytime on this issue.

lanamommyphd07 - LOL! It seems to prove so true time and again, that if you are not screwing up your natural appetite with a lot of sweets and salt, your BODY will tell you what to eat! Steamed spinach ... mmm you're makin' me hungry!

I craved cashews for months ... They seemed so extravagant (price wise) but I just couldn't pass them up when I walked by the bulk bins at my health food store; I later realized I had a magnesium deficiency (which cured my nighttime leg cramps), and guess what I learned is especially high in magnesium?? You got it, cashews!

Good food is a passion of mine too. I grew up with a kitchen garden and my Mom canned and pickled. Once you taste it straight from the field, you realize what is lacking on most grocery shelves. Quality ingredients count for EVERYthing if you like to cook! (You can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear, right?)

Here's a little "observational" experiment for the next time you are in a food store, waiting on line, and perhaps a little bored. Check out the other patrons. Assess their overall health. Are they well-proportioned? Or Overweight? Do they have healthy hair and clear skin? Or do they look stressed and tired? Now take a look at what they are putting on the check-out belt. Fruits and vegetables, fish and meat? Or frozen dinners, chips, cookies and soda? It becomes so obvious to me why people are healthy, or unhealthy looking, when you see what they are putting into their bodies.
post #48 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by lanamommyphd07 View Post
no vitamins here, but I did get quite a hankering half way through for spinach. bags and bags. I think I ate a few pounds a week for a while, but I figured that was the body saying "order up! folic acid please"!

creamed spinach has been on my plate lately. It seems to satisfy. I've been putting it on everything!Potatoes, eggs, toast...
post #49 of 77
Creamed spinach ... YUM! (And plenty of folate there!)

see: http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcom...st_nut_edit.pl
(It contains a generous dose of Vitamin A as well!)

If you want to search food nutrients from the USDA this is their handy tool.

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

I despise liver in any form. (Although I will eat almost anything else, I just can't get it down, and never could.) But whenever I use the brewers yeast to give my B vitamins a boost (on top of my daily B-50 tablets) I notice immediate effects. I think there is a lot to be said for "natural sources" where nature has supplied the nutrients in exactly the right proportions.
post #50 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by lanamommyphd07 View Post
no vitamins here, but I did get quite a hankering half way through for spinach. bags and bags. I think I ate a few pounds a week for a while, but I figured that was the body saying "order up! folic acid please"!
Oh my! Same thing happened to me! Seriously! I hate bags and bags of baby spinach (it was like a month straight somewhere around 7 or 8 months). My DH was so sick of it but I couldn't stop thinking about it! :
post #51 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsNature View Post
Here's a little "observational" experiment for the next time you are in a food store, waiting on line, and perhaps a little bored. Check out the other patrons. Assess their overall health. Are they well-proportioned? Or Overweight? Do they have healthy hair and clear skin? Or do they look stressed and tired? Now take a look at what they are putting on the check-out belt. Fruits and vegetables, fish and meat? Or frozen dinners, chips, cookies and soda? It becomes so obvious to me why people are healthy, or unhealthy looking, when you see what they are putting into their bodies.
Oh. my. god.

I am so glad you were not behind me in the supermarket this afternoon! :

I am usually a big fan of natural foods, and my groceries usually comprise organic fruit and veggies and whole grains and legumes, but today all I had in my basket was a 20 oz rootbeer and a single serving cup of vanilla ice cream... We don't get rootbeer down here in CR often but lately it is EVERYWHERE, and I was so craving a rootbeer float on this hot hot day...I just HAD to take advantage while I can.

I am so glad only the checkout girl was there to witness my purchase.

Thanks for the reminder of the B vitamin! I was taking one everyday and feeling fine, then the smell of them was making me gag so I stopped for a couple days and WOW did I feel HORRIBLE! So after reading this, I sucked it up, held my nose and got the pill down me for the last two days and the difference is truly PHENOMENAL! I do not think (especially as a vegetarian) that I can live without them no matter how smelly they are.

BTW, I do have brewer's yeast and wheat germ in my fridge, actually...but I only ever eat the brewer's yeast on popcorn. yummmmmmmm.
post #52 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsNature View Post
[
To those who would rely upon the advice of the nutrition fashionistas, I have often asked this question: "Does it really make sense to eliminate from your diet the very foods that nature provides to the world's tinyest living creatures? (Which are; milk and eggs?)" In reality, cholesterol "problems" are caused by high glycemic foods - sugar and white flour - NOT nature's "perfect" foods, which includes all dairy!
I'm not vegan, and I'm not debating that dairy and eggs or even meat cause cholesterol issues, and I do still include vegetarian cheeses in my diet (with caesin) but I'm just curious, what creatures drink milk, let alone cows milk after the first year of life? Wouldn't you put any stock in the research that shows that the milk from the industrial farms where most milk (and meat for that matter) in the supermarket comes from is not only loaded with hormones and antibiotics but can be directly related to the decreasing age at which young women go into puberty these days and the increasing rate of cancer (prostate, breast, and ovarian) in western cultures where people are accustomed to having dairy as a significant part of the daily diet? Do think any milk is better than no milk?

I also do know that several scavanger creatures eat other animal eggs, but do you worry at all about the hormones and antbiotics that go into industrial egg farms, where most people buy their eggs these days? I buy my eggs from my neighbor who has a sweet little coop with a few dozen happy hens fed on nothing but god's green earth, the worms in the ground and cracked corn. Really lovely eggs!

Just curious what you think.
post #53 of 77
Hakeber - Thank you for your comments. You have raised some EXCELLENT points!

Yes, I totally agree that "industrial" farming adulterates MOST dairy products and meats. I also do believe there is credence to the theory that pumping our meat supply with hormones (and antibiotics) may very well contribute to the early sexual development we are noting in our adolescent population, (as well as fomenting "superbugs" that are antibiotic resistent). In fact there are those that believe that the recent "swine flu" mutation is a result of "routine" swine farming techniques, and some have pointed to an (American corp.) farm, not far from Mexico City, as the source of this particular strain.

Although I did not mention the caveat that for millenia, some HUMAN populations have enjoyed great health by eating RAW DAIRY products, from GRASS FED animals, I will modify that point here. Consider that it was (somewhat vaguely) alluded to in the points about modern day "agribiz."

Our profit-driven farming methods, wherein dairy cattle and meat cattle alike are "pumped up" with grains (which are NOT a part of "nature's" diet for ruminants), in order to fatten cattle for market a year earlier than grass fed cattle, changes the fat content of beef - to a more "solid" form. But when dairy cattle are fed grain, this diet foments the growth of E-Coli and other infections/parasites in their guts, which winds up in their milk - and CREATES the need for "pasteurisation!"

As you likely know, pasteurisation kills "friendly" microbia and many of the nutrients found in natural raw milk. The ancient tribes whose diets were based upon dairy, were eating RAW dairy foods, from grass fed animals. But because "modern" dairying practices actually CREATE a danger, pastuerisation attempts to "undo" some of that damage (to what otherwise would be an extremely nutritious food source).

But the dairy Agribiz has created a powerful lobby to PROTECT it's dirty methods, and profit$ - and has fomented a huge prejudice against "certified" Raw Milk. (They simply DON'T WANT the competition!) So, in large part, they have succeeded in frightening the public against seeking alternatives to their denatured product.

You are WISE to get your eggs from locally farmed, and truly "free range" hens. I always choose "free range" eggs here in my urban environment, but know full-well that "free range" labeling likely means that chickens are only allowed to "range" in huge, overcrowded, barns - thanks to USDA/FDA labeling standards! Buying locally produced eggs from farmers who allow their hens sunlight and access to outdoor "bugs" is always the better choice, if one can find them.

I am an adherent to the tenents of the Weston A. Price Foundation - which foments a network of dairies where consumers can join "farm clubs" and get regularly tested raw milk from GRASS FED cows. (Grass feeding is a REQUIREMENT of the club to become a purveyor of WAPF dairy.) Procuring it is somewhat "clandestine" in many states where NO Raw milk sales are allowed (thanks to Agribiz lobbies!), and buying it can sometimes seem like one is buying illegal street drugs! www.realmilk.org (an adjunct site to Weston A. Price) offers a list of purveyors across the country for those who are interested to join a club and procure raw dairy products. Many of these WAPF dairies also offer truly free-range eggs, and raw milk yogurt and cheeses.

Raw milk is more expensive - but whenever I "share" a sample with family members who are told outright that the milk is raw, they always comment on how fresh and creamy it tastes. (A jug left undisturbed will exhibit a "cream line" about one third from it's top!) Raw milk supplies the "friendly flora" probiotics that are now so popularly touted in the press. BTW, breast milk is "raw" milk!

As to the grain-fed meat, possibly pumped with hormones and likely with antibitiotics - since a Whole Foods Market opened in my neighborhood about ten years ago, (and with the "mad cow" scare of the time), I have bought my chopped meat exclusively from them, as all of their beef is humanely raised and "grass fed." (Some grocers will occasionally offer grass fed beef from Australia, which I also buy when I can.) It is delicious! When the cooked fat cools down, one can readily see that is "softer" than that of grain fed beef.

If you have studied the anthropological diets of many native cultures, you will have seen that many of them have subsisted using "raw dairy" as their sole, or practically sole, protein source. Natural Laco-Ova diets have been a mainstay of many populations, for a very, very long time.

Thanks again for your comments!
post #54 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by hakeber View Post
Oh. my. god.

I am so glad you were not behind me in the supermarket this afternoon! :

We don't get rootbeer down here in CR often but lately it is EVERYWHERE, and I was so craving a rootbeer float on this hot hot day...I just HAD to take advantage while I can.

I am so glad only the checkout girl was there to witness my purchase.

Thanks for the reminder of the B vitamin! I was taking one everyday and feeling fine, then the smell of them was making me gag so I stopped for a couple days and WOW did I feel HORRIBLE! So after reading this, I sucked it up, held my nose and got the pill down me for the last two days and the difference is truly PHENOMENAL! I do not think (especially as a vegetarian) that I can live without them no matter how smelly they are.

BTW, I do have brewer's yeast and wheat germ in my fridge, actually...but I only ever eat the brewer's yeast on popcorn. yummmmmmmm.
OH LOL!!! (RE: "Bag Lady" with the Root beer float!!) Hey, submitting to an occasional craving is A-OK in my book ... it's the constant diet of junk that gets folks into trouble. Just the rare fact that you DO have brewer's yeast and wheat germ in your fridge tells me that you DO understand the basic tenets of nutrition, and that your diet is likely a very healthy one.

Thanks so much for sharing that B-vitamin story. It is truly amazing sometimes how quickly our bodies can respond to being given the nutrients they need! I have seen so many "miracles" happen when various friends over the years have come to me for nutritional advice with health problems, and after digging into my Adelle Davis library, found recommendations that worked - and often at lightning speed!

Now, Brewer's Yeast on POPCORN???? Never heard of that one, but definitely want to TRY it, THANKS!!
post #55 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsNature View Post
Now, Brewer's Yeast on POPCORN???? Never heard of that one, but definitely want to TRY it, THANKS!!
mmm my step mom started me on this when we were kids, and it's frankly they only thing I know to do with it! makes it really yummy and makes me feel less guilty for consuming so many empty calories.

Thanks for those comments!

LOL, at the reference to illegal street drugs. I remember an episode of Anthony Bourdain where he was in upstate New York buying illegal cheeses, where he said the same thing! Cracks me up...pssst...pssst...hey kid, dime bag of cheddar? Gouda? I got raw Gouda? New shipment from Vermont just came in and this sh*t is off the hook, man!

I wonder if there is a raw dairy club here in Costa Rica. I would love to make a switch to something healthier. I really only use milk for baking, or in milk products, but it would be nice to get the "real thing" (no pun intended).
post #56 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by hakeber View Post
pssst...pssst...hey kid, dime bag of cheddar? Gouda? I got raw Gouda? New shipment from Vermont just came in and this sh*t is off the hook, man!

I wonder if there is a raw dairy club here in Costa Rica. I would love to make a switch to something healthier. I really only use milk for baking, or in milk products, but it would be nice to get the "real thing" (no pun intended).
"Dime bag of cheddar" :.. and "off the hook" - L O L!!

Actually I am from one of those states where some are trying to "decriminalize" possession - so I can't really tell ya where I live and write about this dairy "contraband!"

You're right. I checked the www.realmilk.org "international" listing and see nothing for Costa Rica. HOWEVER ... I'm betting that if you ask around locally, as to who has a "grass fed" local dairy, you might make a connection. I also bet you could find goat's milk there rather readily. But goat's milk is wierd and very strong tasting, IMO. But the cheese, Ooo La La!

BTW it was my experience while traveling in the Carribbean that UHT milk is widely sold there. Sometimes it is labeled "ultra pastreurised" (as are literally ALL of the "heavy cream" products in the U.S.!) - but by either name, it is IRRADIATED!
post #57 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsNature View Post
BTW it was my experience while traveling in the Carribbean that UHT milk is widely sold there. Sometimes it is labeled "ultra pastreurised" (as are literally ALL of the "heavy cream" products in the U.S.!) - but by either name, it is IRRADIATED!
Is that the long life milk?

Yeah 99% of the milk comes like this. Fresh milk is twice the price and only found at the fancy (read: catering to ex-pats) grocery stores.
post #58 of 77
[QUOTE=hakeber;13920729] Is that the long life milk? QUOTE]

The very same.

Over here Parmalat is irradiated milk.
I cringe to see they are now packaging it in small containers for kids' lunches!
post #59 of 77
After reading this thread I realize how fortunate I am originally from Kansas and was raised on small farms where pesticides and chemicals were unheard of. I now live in Colorado and my parents still try to have a descent garden, own, goats, chickens, and allow them to mow as they go! Although goats milk is not my preference, when I am pregnant I drink it. I get fresh eggs that are to die for and produce that makes super market brands unpalatable after consumption. I could never understand debilitating morning sickness that some women experience, but maybe it is because I am consuming what nature intended me to eat. Currently it is patatoes, patatoes, patatoes, with real butter! MMMMMM!!
post #60 of 77
Owlpainter - You are one Lucky Gal to have grown up with those wholesome foods! MMMM w/butter!!

I will be dating myself here, but when I was a kid, the "milkman" delivered twice a week. (And deposited it in the insulated metal box everyone had on their front porch.) Milk came in glass, and was ONLY pasteurised, NOT homogeonised - so the cream rose to the top and you had to "shake" the bottle to disburse it. I think that even the plain pasteurised was probably better than the homogeonised that is the only thing available now in most places - one less "denaturing" step. (And BTW, the better they can disburse what little cream the mega-dairies leave in our milk today, the less they can get away with skimming off, and selling at INFLATED prices, as cream.)

Do your folks ever make cheese with that goat's milk?
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