What Do You Think About Father Cutie Joining the Episcopalian Church? - Page 2

[flminivanmama]

i didn't read the linked article but I know from articles in my local paper (he is local to me) that he will not be able to become a priest right away.

[lolar2]

Originally Posted by Tradd

The ECUSA ministry has long been a refuge for those who got in trouble with the Roman hierarchy

Wasn't the Anglican church specifically founded on that? A church for Henry VIII who'd gotten in trouble with the Roman hierarchy? Seems to me that pre-dates the ECUSA.

ECUSA standards are definitely NOT that of the Catholic or Orthodox Churches.

Of course not, and why would they be? It's a different church.

[Bluegoat]

Originally Posted by lolar2

Wasn't the Anglican church specifically founded on that? A church for Henry VIII who'd gotten in trouble with the Roman hierarchy? Seems to me that pre-dates the ECUSA.



Of course not, and why would they be? It's a different church.

The standards of the Episcopalian churches for priests have pretty clearly changed over the last 60 years or so. Before that, there were very similar kinds of standards expected of priests - after all, Episcopalians claim to be catholic along with the RCs and Orthodox, and have a similar theology of the priesthood, for example. It's only relatively recently that they have begun to move in a completely new direction, quite different from the breadth that Anglicanism had previously incorporated. Specifically, not that long ago, any kind of sexual relationship outside of a marriage for a priest would have been a problem for the Bishop to deal with - now it is quite common. What is rather confusing about this is that there has been no real clear theological direction to support these changes.

[Tradd]

Lolar, I meant ECUSA is a haven for CLERGY in trouble with with the Roman hierarchy. It's become pretty clear that nearly anything goes with the Episcopalians. And I do mean *anything*.

[NicaG]

Originally Posted by Tradd

Lolar, I meant ECUSA is a haven for CLERGY in trouble with with the Roman hierarchy. It's become pretty clear that nearly anything goes with the Episcopalians. And I do mean *anything*.

Yes, sadly.

My former parish was responsible for Jim McGreevey's discernment process to become a priest (I think he's in seminary now), after leaving the RC church for the Episcopal Church. McGreevey is the former governor or New Jersey, who was forced to step down after a scandal involving a homosexual affair with a staffer (in charge of state security), who later blackmailed him. McGreevey was married with children at the time, and has since declared he is gay. I find it strange that someone with this background would be considered for the priesthood--after betraying the trust of his family, and the state of New Jersey.

I guess anything goes.

[athansor]

As an Episcopal (and former Roman Catholic) one thing I love about the Episcopal Church is the fact that it welcomes everyone. I tend to think of the scriptures where Jesus was dining and socializing with people who were marginalized from society when I think of how the Episcopal church invites all to participate, even those who other denominations condemn.
I guess I see it as valuable that there is at least one denomination that everyone can belong to.

[Bluegoat]

Originally Posted by athansor

As an Episcopal (and former Roman Catholic) one thing I love about the Episcopal Church is the fact that it welcomes everyone. I tend to think of the scriptures where Jesus was dining and socializing with people who were marginalized from society when I think of how the Episcopal church invites all to participate, even those who other denominations condemn.
I guess I see it as valuable that there is at least one denomination that everyone can belong to.

Belonging is one thing - and honestly, how many RC parishoners are excommunicated tese days - being in a leadership position is another.

In fact, the Episcopal church has lots of hoops to go through for those who want to be priests, because they think priests ought to have certian abilities and not be crazy, murderers, they should actually be educated in their religion, believe it, and live it. They have to agree to follow what their Bishop says, and the rules of the church, both before ordination and within the service itself.

But they seem to be rather faulty in some of those - there are a surprising number of priests that neither believe what the Episcopal church teaches, nor live by it. There are lots of people who are good Christians but would be a disaster as a leader.

Nowhere does it say that all Christians have a "right" to be a priest.

[holyhelianthus]

Originally Posted by NicaG

Yes, sadly.

My former parish was responsible for Jim McGreevey's discernment process to become a priest (I think he's in seminary now), after leaving the RC church for the Episcopal Church. McGreevey is the former governor or New Jersey, who was forced to step down after a scandal involving a homosexual affair with a staffer (in charge of state security), who later blackmailed him. McGreevey was married with children at the time, and has since declared he is gay. I find it strange that someone with this background would be considered for the priesthood--after betraying the trust of his family, and the state of New Jersey.

I guess anything goes.

And herein lies the rub for me. Again I am not RC or Ep. but this sort of thing in general I find problematic. I understand being open to all but there is a point where consequences are forgotten and our behavior is excused. How does that really benefit us as individuals and a whole? IMO it does the opposite. If I reward my child for smacking her sister what has she learned? What example have I given to my other girls?

[umsami]

Update: Father Cutie wed his girlfriend today.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_216501.html

[mammal_mama]

Oh, she is so pretty! I'm really happy for them.

[Bluegoat]

Oh my, he wrote a book on how to have good relationships! Oh my!

[athansor]

I'm happy for them and congratulate them on their wedding! I'm also very glad to welcome him as a member of the Episcopal Church!

I guess if there is one thing that bothers me, it is that all this happened after he got 'caught' with his future wife. I think that people changes, and I don't have a problem with someone thinking they could live a celibate life, then realizing that won't work, and renouncing their vow. However, having this all happen after photos were published makes me wonder if he would have tried to keep it under wraps as long as he could.

As far as the book he's written, do you find it problematic because he was a member of a celibate group and therefore had no direct experience prior to his one relationship, because he has only been involved with one woman who is now his wife, or for some other reason? If I recall correctly, Catholic nuns such as Mother Angelica have written books with relationship advice. Of course, I also know someone who wrote a very funny and practical book about relationships after his fourth (or fifth?) divorce. He definately had a lot of experience of the good and the bad to draw from!