Toss Baby in Water Swim Lessons?!?

[MaryTheres]

Hey Ladies, A friend of mine due in July tells me today that she plans to at six months take her baby to some swim lessons where they "toss the infant in the water and then they flip"... okay I heard this before and thought it was nutty then! But now actually being friends with someone who plans to do this is kind of freakin me out. And she was like "well mil in has a pool so safety is so important..."

Okay, first of all you still need to put life jackets on the baby/children and be with them at all times in the water, so what is the point? Secondly, my entire family of inlaws have boats, my parents in law have a motor yacht and a sailboat that we all frequent, In addition DH's cousins have party boats and ski boats and mil/fil have an inground pool, etc... I take all the proper precautions with the children and have had no desire to toss either one infant or not in a pool to train them to flip. Are these people nuts???? Or is this really okay and I am just ignorant? I have a feeling that once she has the baby she won't do it but who knows - apparently, people do this??

[nancy11]

i was thinking of trying it

i feel like it has to be done earlier, though
infants flip instinctually but probably need more training past a certain point

i'm still researching this

[annettemarie]

Moving to Life with a Babe.

And just a gentle reminder-- MDC's Statement of Purpose reads:

Mothering celebrates the experience of parenthood as worthy of one's best efforts and fosters awareness of the immense importance and value of family life in the development of the full human potential of parents and children. At Mothering we recognize parents as experts and seek to provide truly helpful information upon which parents can make informed choices. Mothering is both a fierce advocate of the needs and rights of the child and a gentle supporter of the parents, and we encourage decision-making that considers the needs of all family members.

In the past, we've hosted conversation that have critically discussed this method, but we've not hosted threads that advocate it, as it inevitably seems to lead to suggestions to ignore a baby's cues and cries, which violates our Statement of Purpose.

If that doesn't make sense, feel free to PM me and we can try to figure it out together.

That being said, let's move the thread and hope for the best.

[claras_mom]

They may at some point flip instinctually, but you're not going to teach an infant to save itself by tossing it into a pool. IMO, as I haven't researched.

[ledzepplon]

My first thought, since I've never heard of such a thing, was that perhaps she was just exaggerating about the "tossing" part? I just can't wrap my mind around that.

[Ducky5306]

I watched class afew times (at the ymca, the classes are the same time as open swim) here are just the facts from the classes i witnessed

the babies (6mo and up) go in the pool alone with the instructor, parents are NOT allowed in the water and are NOT allowed to talk to/comfort child during the lesson.

The classes are only 15 min and at the end of the class you lay a towel flat on the ground then lay your child flat on their tummy on top the towel, put another on top of them then pound on their backs to get all the water out of their lungs.

When the child finally makes it to the side of the pool or to the instructor the child is then thrown back into the middle of the pool (Nice!)

The few instructors i've witness teaching classes are very cold to the children during the class (it's a survival skills class)

Every class I've seen all had one thing in common, SCREAMING babies/toddlers/children crying and screaming for their parents as the parents watched from the outside and said nothing

IMO the classes are traumatizing, terrifying and seem very well mean for lack of a better word.. But they do teach kids to swim and CIO (In theory) teaches children to sleep but there are gentler ways ya know?

My ds is 3 and can't swim (we don't have a pool nor does anyone close by) and when/if we are around water i'm very, very careful and never let him out of my sight)

[KD's Momma]

this is how my sister learned to swim! I remember it clearly because I am 6 yrs older and because of my mom's reaction to it. She was not aware that the pool owner was going to throw my sis in and she was histerical when it first occured. But he literally picked her up and tossed her in the water, my sister has always LOVED the water, and she really did just kick her way up to the top and flip over, she cont to kick her legs and move her arms around which propelled her to the side of the pool. She has never had swimming lessons or anything and has always been a GREAT swimmer. That being said, I have not done with my kids and most likely won't ever, but not because I don't think it doesn't work or have a problem with it but because I just haven't been around water when they are that little.

[confustication]

I've read about it, and heard a lot about it. I think early introduction to water is great. I'm not so keen on this method.

I've been a lifeguard and WSI for many years. I'm in the midst of recertifying for this year, and I woould *really* struggle if I saw someone at a pool I was supervising try this method. I simply am not ok with it, and while they will often flip, I really struggle with the risks associated with 'what if'.

We will be offering lessons to people of all ages, infants included, however, I really favor gentle introduction to water- largely in arms- so that babies learn to feel safe around water.

If there is a pool at a grandparent's house, it needs to be fenced, and the kids can't be unsupervised. I grew up on the water- lakes, oceans, sailing, etc. You can't fence those so easily, but you can provide adequate supervision.

I believe that things like this sometimes lead to a false sense of security. Even a child who knows how to float at age 5 can drown. Panic and fatigue are both huge factors, even when kids are 'trained' to be around water. There's simply nothing that can take the place of adult supervision.

Getting kids comfortable and happy with water- great. Making sure their parents are trained in CPR, teaching parents how to safely spend time around the water with their kids, teaching kids that you don't go in the water without an adult, making sure that you have real safety measures in place, and know what to do if something goes wrong- these are all SO much more important than teaching an infant to flip over if he/she does go in the water. They will instinctively hold their breath, and someone SHOULD be in arms reach. Always.

[Shiloh]

The classes are only 15 min and at the end of the class you lay a towel flat on the ground then lay your child flat on their tummy on top the towel, put another on top of them then pound on their backs to get all the water out of their lungs.

would that really stop a dry drowning/secondary drowning senario?

[confustication]

Originally Posted by Shiloh

would that really stop a dry drowning/secondary drowning senario?

Absolutely not.

[PaigeC]

Originally Posted by Ducky5306

I watched class afew times (at the ymca, the classes are the same time as open swim) here are just the facts from the classes i witnessed

the babies (6mo and up) go in the pool alone with the instructor, parents are NOT allowed in the water and are NOT allowed to talk to/comfort child during the lesson.

The classes are only 15 min and at the end of the class you lay a towel flat on the ground then lay your child flat on their tummy on top the towel, put another on top of them then pound on their backs to get all the water out of their lungs.

When the child finally makes it to the side of the pool or to the instructor the child is then thrown back into the middle of the pool (Nice!)

The few instructors i've witness teaching classes are very cold to the children during the class (it's a survival skills class)

Every class I've seen all had one thing in common, SCREAMING babies/toddlers/children crying and screaming for their parents as the parents watched from the outside and said nothing

IMO the classes are traumatizing, terrifying and seem very well mean for lack of a better word.. But they do teach kids to swim and CIO (In theory) teaches children to sleep but there are gentler ways ya know?

My ds is 3 and can't swim (we don't have a pool nor does anyone close by) and when/if we are around water i'm very, very careful and never let him out of my sight)

This makes me sick. Poor babies.

If it is truly "instinctual" then why are we "teaching" it??

I don't think it matters if it is instinctual - so is the tongue thrust reflex but we don't force them to prove it by continually shoving food down their throat. I also don't think it matters if it works - CIO "works".

This just goes against everything I try to include in my parenting - gentleness, respect, nurturing, listening and responding to my child's needs.

I plan to enroll dd in swim lessons at 6 mo. My reason is that I hope she will have fun more than learn. But, if she learns it will be in accordance with my parenting philosophy.

[NewDirections]

Originally Posted by PaigeC

*snip*
If it is truly "instinctual" then why are we "teaching" it??
*snip*

I didn't know what it meant to throw a baby into the pool to make them learn how to survive in water. I googled it and watched a clip on youtube. This UAV did that to his baby and left him in the pool crying for 5 minutes. He was floating on his back and looking really upset. How awful :::: bawl

[EviesMom]

As a long ago WSI, and a parent who takes my kids to YMCA classes, I just wanted to say that that is NOT the standard for YMCA "baby swim" classes I've ever taught or attended! Do they bill it as a "survival skills" class or a "swim" class? Eeeeeeeeeek!

For KIDS... like 3 at the youngest! Once kids were comfortable with holding their breath, I remember teaching them to "bob," take a breath, go under, and push off the bottom, so if it wasn't too deep, but was over their head, they could bob to the side of the pool even before they had coordinated enough movements to "swim" well. DDs teachers teach the dog paddle before more structured strokes, just to get them moving under their own power.

I also don't really get it. I mean, how is it "teaching" them something? It might be a neat thing to know, and if a really little baby fell into the water unnoticed, it would make a great "aren't humans amazing" story were he/she to flip over and float on their back until an adult found them.... but how would having been in that situation already help them in any way? Wouldn't it make them more prone to panic and drown? Or is the idea that you do it until the kid considers it routine?

[runes]

Yes, if you're sensitive at all, please do not watch the youtube video. It's horrendous that people think that this is an acceptable way to "teach" a child.

I can think of another word that starts with "t" that this cruel swim training method does do to a child, though.

Torture.


I've been teaching swimming to kids for many many years now, and I see absolutely ZERO merit in this program. Yes, some kids aren't traumatized, but some kids aren't traumatized by being spanked, either.

And as previous posters have mentioned, there is a true health risk regarding dry drowning/secondary drowning with this method. If you're having to pound the water out of an infant's lungs, how is that in any way a healthy thing to do?

[Breeder]

I can't imagine sitting on the sidelines saying nothing while my baby cried for me. Especially for something as non-essential as a swim class.

If it's instinctual then noone would have to teach it.

This sounds just unneccessary at best and cruel/dangerous at worst.

[MamaJenese]

A lot of these lessons happen at YMCAs but are private contractors. Not YMCA instructors. They are not how to really learn how to swim just not to sink. I have been watching them for 6 months whilst my son takes reguler old learn to love the water and swim lessons. They are wild, I could never have my kid do it. As someone else stated they are 15 minutes long every week day until the kid gets it. They start them off in bathing suites dunking and flipping ( I am sure there is more to it, but I am watching from a far) Eventually the child does it on thier own, They "graduate" after they are dunked and let go to flip and do it successfully while fully dressed. While it is amazing, I would rather be more vigilant and teach my child to swim, respect the danger of the water, and enjoy it, even if it took years for them to learn.

[Mal85]

It is instinctual, but 6 months is too late. Babies only have the instinct to hold their breath under water and flip up until 6 months old. After that, if you haven't exposed the baby to water and going under the water, they have to relearn it. DD is 3 m/o and with summer quickly approaching, I do intend to get her in the pool. I do intend to go under water with her, and I may even get brave enough to let go for a split second with me right there with her. But I just don't have the heart to just toss her in.

It's really important to me to expose her to water early and often. I loooove the water and always have and would really like to share that love with her. Tell your friend to try it earlier. I think the earlier the better actually, if you're looking for them to rely on instinct. And she needs to be close by. I know they say you can just toss them in and they'll do it, but I just see too many dangers in that. And if it was me, we'd have to stop if she completely freaked out. Try it again at another time, maybe. Some babies/kids/adults take to the water immediately, others just have to ease their way there...

[ILoveSweetpea]

Yikes... this is breaking my heart to just think about.

We live on a lake, so water safety is important. We've been debating when to do swim classes, and go back and forth quite a bit on the issue. We were thinking about the local Y, but now I'm not so sure. I guess we should go observe a class before signing up. I wouldn't want to do a class without either myself or DH in the water with DS.

Regardless of swim lessons, or a lack thereof, we won't let DS play in our backyard without us nearby. (Or the front yard for that matter... but especially not the back yard which backs into the lake.)

[Jojo F.]

Originally Posted by confustication

I've read about it, and heard a lot about it. I think early introduction to water is great. I'm not so keen on this method.

I've been a lifeguard and WSI for many years. I'm in the midst of recertifying for this year, and I woould *really* struggle if I saw someone at a pool I was supervising try this method. I simply am not ok with it, and while they will often flip, I really struggle with the risks associated with 'what if'.

We will be offering lessons to people of all ages, infants included, however, I really favor gentle introduction to water- largely in arms- so that babies learn to feel safe around water.

If there is a pool at a grandparent's house, it needs to be fenced, and the kids can't be unsupervised. I grew up on the water- lakes, oceans, sailing, etc. You can't fence those so easily, but you can provide adequate supervision.

I believe that things like this sometimes lead to a false sense of security. Even a child who knows how to float at age 5 can drown. Panic and fatigue are both huge factors, even when kids are 'trained' to be around water. There's simply nothing that can take the place of adult supervision.

Getting kids comfortable and happy with water- great. Making sure their parents are trained in CPR, teaching parents how to safely spend time around the water with their kids, teaching kids that you don't go in the water without an adult, making sure that you have real safety measures in place, and know what to do if something goes wrong- these are all SO much more important than teaching an infant to flip over if he/she does go in the water. They will instinctively hold their breath, and someone SHOULD be in arms reach. Always.

:

Well said.

I couldn't imagine hearing all of those poor babies screaming and crying for their mommies/daddies How heart breaking!!

DD and I take a "bath" together in our shower stall (I clog the drain with my big fat thigh) and let her sit and lay in the shallow water. I figure that's a good introduction to water. When I rinse her head on occassion I have gotten a bit of water on her face and she instinctively knows to close her eyes and nose. I may keep getting a bit of water on her face just to keep this habit up (DS is absolutely afraid to get his face wet!) but I would never toss an infant into the water, it's just too scary for *me*.

[Jojo F.]

Originally Posted by Mal85

It is instinctual, but 6 months is too late. Babies only have the instinct to hold their breath under water and flip up until 6 months old. After that, if you haven't exposed the baby to water and going under the water, they have to relearn it.

Yup!!