5 year old sneaking sugar ... help!!

[onelittleone]

Hi there. We for the most part eat healthy organic foods. My daughter lately has wanted sugar ... so we allow the occasional ice cream on special occasions. Birthday cake etc. Home baked cookies once in a while. But ... one night a few months ago I split an organic ice cream bar with her. I put the other half in the freezer and I was going to eat it after she went to sleep (I am pregnant and was soooo looking forward to that treat) When I came downstairs, she had already eaten it when I was getting her room ready for bed. A part of me was glad that she was independent and decided for herself that she wanted that ice cream, but I had said we were sharing it. So the next morning I talked to her about it and explained that too much sugar isn't healthy for our bodies and even though it tastes good - too much makes us sick. I also explained that it was my share and it was unfair to have eaten it ... and that was that.

Well this weekend we went to a parade and there were tootsie rolls and dum dums flying. She also received an organic kids cliff bar. So I told her she could have 1/2 the cliff bar at luch at school but the other candies had artificial flavors and were not healthy for us ... she didn't want to throw them away because she got them at the parade and said she wanted to use them as pretend food for her stuffed animals. I was fine with that, she is a really good kid. So ... tonight she goes into the bathroom with her stuffed poodle and says she wants to feed him a tootsie rool, I am fine with that and didn't think for a second she would eat it.

Well ... I go into the bathroom tonight and notice the lollypop is not wrapped right, so I look at it and it's all wet and almost half gone. The tootsie roll also is missing a nice little bite out of it, and then wrapped back up.

My dilemma is ... my mother didn't let us have ANY artificial flavors or colors or cookies or cake at all. So I thought I was doing a good job keeping things healthy in moderation - so she wouldn't binge later on when she got older like my sisters and I did. But now she is sneaking it and I don't think that is emaotionally healthy, I know now that junk just can't enter the house - period ... but what do I say to her? How can I explain it so it's not such a forbidden fruit?

Any thoughts, experience, advice??

Thanks :

[lil_earthmomma]

I think having a tootsie roll or candy once in a while isn't a big deal, even if it does have artifical crap in it. Having a no junk entering the house rule sets it up to be forbidden fruit imho.

I think a policy of not buying the candies/crap food is a great one! If it isn't there it can't be consumed. But when your dd gets less than awesome food as a gift/parade/halloween, I think moderation needs to come into play. Instead of telling her she couldn't have any of the candies, why not one of each kind, to be eaten on two different days?

When we had halloween/christmas/parade candy as children, we got to have one of each kind of candy, and my mom "bought" the rest with little dollar store toys etc. Then those candies were put in the pantry and we could have them when we asked, no more than one a day, and usually not everyday. It was great, none of us felt deprived and I still don't have issues with sweets.

Again, I think it's great to avoid buying and providing your dd with crap, but when crap is given, try to let her have a little bit of each kind and she may have less of a desire to sneak and hide.

[peaceful_mama]

I say buy what you want to buy and only what you want to buy. But if she gets the candy for whatever reason, let her eat it a little at a time. A tiny bit of the 'crap' (really, one Tootsie Roll?) one day isn't going to hurt and I think is a better way to get to the end result you want---not binging, sneaking, hiding.

If you absolutley forbid her to eat it, she's going to do it because it is forbidden....and someday she is going to have her own $ and choice as to how to spend it.

Analogy---when I went to Germany at the age of 16, we stayed with host families for a week. (school trip) 16 year olds there could legally drink. When we all went to a club, the American teenagers were all going crazy over the idea that we could buy ALCOHOL and what we were going to buy. The German teens were buying Cokes. Alcohol was not a big forbidden thing to them, and they'd figured out how they wanted to spend their $$.

I'm not saying you have to go out and buy the junk. **but** if she does get it, making it "unforbidden" is what is most likely to keep her from thinking it's a big deal!

(there is candy in my house. There are also several choices for fresh fruit in my house at any given moment. I also *do* have a few restrictions, like "no, breakfast first" and on an amount they can have at any given sitting. Candy is kept where they need help to get it, fruit is in the bottom drawer of the fridge. Yes, there are times my kids will ask for the candy. But, there are *more* times that they are in the fridge after the grapes.)

[Carley]

That's a tough call & totally personal. Everyone is different & I know a lot of people go w/o sugar.

If we have candy/sugar in the house DD wants it. Totally normal. We take the "every day" out of it, but incorporate it into our lives for sure.


We have a special dessert day 1x/week. I make a batch that's only the size for our family so there are rarely any leftovers to ask for. We'll make ice cream or cookies etc. I make treats with less sweetener & molasses as a replacement to "make up for" the sugar in the chocolate chips etc., but I make sure they're not too "healthy" tasting (know what I mean?) so they're definitely a treat. Not a breakfast.


Having a regular treat day works for us because:
a) we like cookies! Yum!
b) DD gets to decide what we're going to make.

When she asks for cookies/cake/etc during the week I tell her that would be a great idea for treat night & if she's persistant we look at recipes together & plan our special night. We'll decorate for it etc. so it's totally a treat in every way, not some every day stuff your face & not just "all about food." It's special.


As far as candy goes... this is totally a personal thing. I'm not saying this is going to work for you, but when DD gets candy we let her have free choice over it. If she gets treats from school/easter/halloween she can eat them all or save them for later. Her choice.


The benefit is that it usually all gets eaten in a short period of time & she feels fufilled. Nothing to ask for later, it was a special treat she was given by someone else e.g. Mommy doesn't have Easter candy, the Easter bunny brings it. Mommy doesn't have special chocolate mints, only Grandpa has them.


It also lets her go "all out" on occassion, something I think is perfectly healthy. I also have no rules when she's at someone elses house. If Grammy & papa take her out for ice cream, whatever.


I struggled with eating disorders for years. Anorexia, Binge eating, Bulimia... it was nasty. It was really, really hard. I was raised with strict regulations on food, so I didn't give myself the opportunities to have a "normal" all out "binge" on food. e.g. I wouldn't eat ice cream in front of people for fear they'd critisize the quantity, so when I was alone I'd hide and eat my desired quantity and felt I had to eat as much as I want quickly or I might not "get" to for a while.

My husband never had food issues. Sometimes he has one brownie, sometimes he eats a whole batch (albeit a small 3 person family sized batch). His choice is personally regulated. When they were kids they could eat as much candy out of their Easter baskets/Halloween as they wanted. They ate super delicious healthy food most of the time, but they'd also have unregulated fondue night & the occasional chile con queso (with the queso being Velveeta)

I'm not saying that is "why" we do/do not have food issues, or that a bunch of sugar is the best thing to be eating... but I'm applying the scenario he grew up with because I feel it jives with normal human desires.




ETA When my husband & his brother & sister got their booty of Easter candy my husband & his sister would eat his right away. My husband's brother would retain a stockpile and SELL IT TO THEM!

How different we all are!

[lil_earthmomma]

Carley, I am another recovering victim of eating disorder.

I love the idea of a special treat night to look forward too!!! I'm totally stealing that for my boys!

Re: your dh's brother, I had a sister like that!!! She would totally hoarde her share and then save it as an ace in her pocket. Someone had a toy she coveted, she would just happen to have a bunch of delicious treats to trade for it!

[WC_hapamama]

Originally Posted by onelittleone

My dilemma is ... my mother didn't let us have ANY artificial flavors or colors or cookies or cake at all. So I thought I was doing a good job keeping things healthy in moderation - so she wouldn't binge later on when she got older like my sisters and I did. But now she is sneaking it and I don't think that is emaotionally healthy, I know now that junk just can't enter the house - period ... but what do I say to her? How can I explain it so it's not such a forbidden fruit?

Any thoughts, experience, advice??

I think you need to find a healthy compromise without making it "forbidden".

I'd go ahead and let her have candy occasionally... not daily, not frequently, but just often enough to where she's not feeling deprived so she feels like she has to sneak it.

I don't see how a lollipop or a piece of chocolate once a week is a bad thing.

My DH rarely got candy or cookies as a child, and once he was a teenager, and even now as an adult, he has a tendency to binge.

Just yesterday, I was talking to DH about a little girl in my dd's girl scout troop, who sat at snack time at the meeting Friday and ate 10 oreos. I've seen what this child brings for lunch at school everyday, and there is rarely junk food involved. The way her eyes lit up when I opened that package of oreos worried me.

[RunnerDuck]

Now this is just my opinion but... you need to walk a fine line between limiting junk enough that your child's diet is overall healthy... and forbidding junk so much that junk becomes, well, forbidden and therefore more appealing. Just my opinion but only allowing half an ice cream bar to a 5 year old? That's pretty restrictive. I could see it for a 2 year old. But not 5... let alone yourself, a grown woman? Who was then dreaming of getting her half once the child was in bed? When I plan to eat things once the kids are in bed... believe me, they are WAY more interesting than half an ice cream bar... :

Why didn't you just split it with her then and there? I don't mean it's seriously seriously over the top but putting your half away to eat once she's in bed almost sounds like another issue...

And half a cliff bar??? I don't know what the kids ones are like but like with the ice cream, 1/2 just sounds abnormal to me.

I'm in the camp where if you allow a treat - make it a TREAT. Not just enough of a treat to tease - but a treat. Maybe it's a normal portion of something once a week - we have a special treat once a week as part of "family movie night" and then maybe something totally overboard a few times a year - like a root beer float, banana pudding, and 2 cookies on memorial day - but over the course of the year - MOST days MOST meals will be healthy stuff.

Dunno if that makes sense.

I'm also in the recovering/ed eating disorder camp and know all too much about what it does to you when things are off limits... I am trying to strike that balance.

FWIW I find we cannot have junk in the house or my son will sneak it... ands then I will find, ie, half eaten granola bars stashed in weird places... it's like we have to get our treats and eat them. If I could buy a box of granola bars and know he would make it last a couple weeks that would be one thing - but no, he opens 5 or 6 in one day. So we bake or buy enough for a one time treat... it's hard to limit yourself when it's in the house. I can totally see why she'd go and sneak the rest of that bar...

[Carley]

Originally Posted by WC_hapamama

The way her eyes lit up when I opened that package of oreos worried me.

But.. oreos are delicious! Kid's eyes light up when see their birthday presents too... that doesn't mean they have an unhealthy relationship with presents


Do you think she just never gets them at home & that's why she took 10?

Man Oreos are good!



Love to all my ED survivors!

[onelittleone]

Thanks everyone for your replies. Just so you know I didn't eat my 1/2 of the bar because I just didn't want it then. No hidden issues there. I understand about making it forbidden fruit etc ... which is why I posted. I DO allow my daughter to indulge in cake etc. at birthday parties and the like - so it's not like I NEVER allow her to have junk ... but I am a little surprised that everyone is so cool with the artificial flavors and colors. It's soooooooo not good for you. I would not be happy if my daughter was allowed to eat 10 oreo cookies in one sitting and I would hope that if she were to binge out on cookies someone would say to her slow down ... I think it's important to teach our children about eating helathy - perhaps (obviously) I am a little more restrictive than most ... it's not the sugar so much that bothers me than the artificial flavors and colors that are being allowed in kids foods, that are terrible. MSG also is not allowed in my home. My daughter had food allergies as a child, so I am aware of how sensitive her system is. I feel like the artificial foods are poison - literally. I feel that they have addicitive properties - look at all the obese kids and parents walking around. Anyway, I appreciate your input and will definitley try to give her a bit more freedom ... definitely a dessert night sounds like a good idea.

[Carley]

It's totally a personal limit. I hope you didn't feel attacked or anything.

It's not that I'm "ok" with bad news, but I don't think it will poison us in the amounts we consume it. We don't even eat cereal for breakfast, you know? It doesn't add up anywhere. Minutae.

For me it goes back to the whole "everything causes cancer" phenomena. Too much Spinach will make you sick. Too much water can actually kill you. Raw foodists think cooked food is poison. Vegans think dairy is poison. TFists think pasturized milk is poison!

It's all subjective.

& obesity... that's an entire dump fill of worms

Good luck with your sugar desneaking!!! Little mongrels!

[wholewheatchick]

Good luck with your decision; that's a tough one, and as seen above, everyone has very different opinions!

FWIW, I think that we had too easy of an access to sweets growing up; part of it, too, was watching how my mom ate (how we internalize things!) because she was overweight/obese most of her life.

Then I went the other direction, and am almost entirely recovered from anorexia.

My sister is following in the same pattern as my mom.

If I have any advice, it's the 80/20 rule. 80% of the time, eat almost perfectly (whatever your definition is). 20% of the time: it's ok to live a little.

Since you are concerned about the food coloring/artificiality of things, would it be possible to do more homemade treats, where you control the ingredients, so that your DD is more able to control her intake/regulate herself in regard to sugar, with supervision, of course? Maybe if you involve her in the creation of the baked goods, she'll also see how much work it takes!

[RunnerDuck]

Originally Posted by Carley

For me it goes back to the whole "everything causes cancer" phenomena. Too much Spinach will make you sick. Too much water can actually kill you. Raw foodists think cooked food is poison. Vegans think dairy is poison. TFists think pasturized milk is poison!

It's all subjective.

Let's not forget that life itself is a terminal condition!

[WC_hapamama]

Originally Posted by wholewheatchick

Since you are concerned about the food coloring/artificiality of things, would it be possible to do more homemade treats, where you control the ingredients, so that your DD is more able to control her intake/regulate herself in regard to sugar, with supervision, of course? Maybe if you involve her in the creation of the baked goods, she'll also see how much work it takes!

Yummy Earth makes awesome natural lollipops and hard candy... no HFCS, natural fruit flavors... I'm hooked on the pomegranate flavored ones.

[Pookietooth]

I think it depends on whether you see a reaction from the artificial stuff. DS gets nosebleeds when he has artificial colors. So we do natural colors (Yummy Earth, etc.). If she doesn't appear to react, it might be hard to make the case to never ever allow her to have it.

[oceanbaby]

I've done a lot of battling with my older son over sugar, and honestly, looking back, I wish I had allowed him a lot more choice over what he ate, when he ate it, and how much he ate when it came to "junk."

I don't buy it or bring it into the house, but whenever we had it, I wish I had let him be more responsible for his choices. I say that because I see now his obsession with sugar, which I think has a lot to do with the forbidden fruit syndrome.

The rare times we had ice cream in the house I wish I had let him have it for breakfast like he asked. Experience has shown that he still would have gone on to eat his regular breakfast afterwards, but all the power struggle would have been taken out of the equation.

We have had issues about him lying to me about sugar, because he knows I would have said no. If he knows that it's his choice, then there is no reason to be deceitful, and then at least I have the opportunity to provide some guidance or options.

[Mere]

I have a dc who is obsessed with sugar, and it's no fun :-(. His has a wierd relationship with food in general though, and I feel like food could become a power struggle in a nanosecond if I let it. I try hard to stay out of his relationship with food, even though it drives me crazy because he eats very few foods. We definitely do not ever have any sugary/refined flour products in the house, because he'll become obsessive over them or want to eat them all the time. There seem to be plenty of opportunities, however, for goodies out of the house; he's definitely not deprived!

When he does get sugary products (e.g., Halloween, Easter) I try to provide quality junk food (like Yummy Earth), although he will always get some of the conventional products. In the big picture, his intake of conventional sugar products is extremely low so I don't sweat it. I let him gorge (which is what he always chooses to do), pretty much eat all the candy in a day or two, and then I don't have to worry about it being around anymore.

[UUMom]

We don't have food sensitivites or allergies. Well, there is the need to stay in protein for one child. Wow, if she doesn't. I think I might too be extreme on the other end for some here, but i will share anyway. lol

Here's an anecdote: I took my youngest to a homeschool gathering yesterday and when we got back, around 6, the teens had baked choc chip cookies. Mind you, it's 6pm. The youngest has a couple while I start dinner. At 7, and dh comes home, we eat dinner. There is lots of garden spinach and various lettuces, and grilled eggplant. At 6, cookies. At 7 healthy dinner.

I battle weight, and a past that was food restrictive (my mother was great, but very into no sugar, no snacking etc), and I don't want that for my kids. My kids are in control of their food intake. I might in charge of purchasing most food, but I never tell them they can't have something.

The rest of the batch of cookies are in the freezer. I am the only one who seems to be thinking about them or wanting one...

[Ruthla]

I can see sharing the ice cream bar if there's only one in the house and you both want it. In that case, her eating the other half was more a problem due to "not sharing" than due to "eating too much sugar."

ITA with the others about allowing occasional treats, in large enough quantities to be enjoyable. I would have allowed the entire Clif bar at once, unless the child filled up halfway through and ASKED me to put some away for later.

I'm of two minds when it comes to the candy though. I have one child who reacts HORRIBLY to artificial colors, and we simply can't have those items in the house, period. If she'd gotten then at a parade or party, they'd need to be given away or thrown away. I'd never have allowed her to keep them "to feed to the toys" though- it's too much temptation for a little kid. Toys in this house eat the empty wrappers!

OTOH, my other 2 kids don't react quite as strongly to artificial junk. I can let my son have some artificial candy, if it's in small quantities, and it's on a day when he has a chance to run around a lot and use up his extra energy, and there's no need to get up early the next day.

Generally he has his treats on Saturday afternoons. I'd rather he eat 4 candies at once, and react for a few hours (when he can run around and be silly, and there's no particular need for a bedtime struggle that night) than have him eat one candy a day for 4 days, and struggle with him 4 days in a row because he can't focus on homework or lie still at bedtime.

Just how much candy did she get at this parade? I'd go ahead and allow her to eat the candy she got- either all at once and get it over with, or doled out over a few days, and DEFINITELY after a high-protein meal. Then, when it's gone, it's gone.

You don't go to parades every weekend, do you? I don't see the harm in letting her eat the small amount of candy she got at a special event.

[SimonMom]

1/2 a cliff bar seems really controlling to me. I mean, even a whole bar is not that big. Letting her have a half of a bar just seems tantalizing and teasing.

We occasionally have sweets, but not often. I never buy candy with artificial flavors or colors, but my kids do get them from parades, halloween and school. Several times a year is not going to hurt them.

[Therese's Mommy]

I haven't read all the responses, but this is what we do in our house. DD#1 gets to have 1 treat a day. A treat is one of the following: a very small handful of sundrops, a piece or 2 or crystallized ginger, a small amt of candy from some special event, a Horizon yogurt tube that has been frozen, or ice cream.

The ice cream is basically a once a week treat that she gets when we go to buy our milk from the local dairy. Sometimes ice cream is in the house because the ils bring it or the lady at the dairy gives us one with a damaged top. She usually would only get 1 more day of ice cream a week and that is a small amt. Dh usually eats it too fast for her to get more Ice cream is only bought for special occasions here. The candy from a special event obviously isn't in the house very often. She had her Easter candy, which was a small amt of mainstream candy. I just threw out the last of it a couple of weeks ago. She would get something like 3 jelly beans, or 1 Peep, or 1 small Peppermint patty a day. We *never* have the mainstream candy in the house except for something like that. The 2 things we always have in the house are sundrops and the Horizon yogurt. Those things are basically the best of the worst, imo. She loves M&Ms, but I tell her that the artificial colors are really bad for her, so I buy the sundrops. I think we counted and she gets about 20 at a time. I am pretty sure it would be less than half of the little packages of sundrops. And when you freeze that yogurt it is just like ice cream for the kids. I never ever buy juice. When we are out and there is juice and she asks for it, I will give her a very watered down cup of it.

When we go out somewhere and there are some treats, I try to figure out which is the least bad and let her have a small amt of that. If there was something she totally had her heart set on that I thought was really awful I would probably let her have some, but a really small amt while offering instead more of a more acceptable choice.

Ok, sorry to be long winded. I have issues with food and tend to overindulge. I am hoping that I am preventing that in my los while also teaching them how to make smart food choices.

Beth