I think dh is having second thoughts...and I need help!

[mi.birthdoula]

Okay, so up till now dh has been pretty supportive of leaving our soon to be ds intact...but lately he keeps bringing it up to people in such a way that it almost makes me think that he is trying to get me to change my mind. he discusses it with family members (his fam, not mine. With mine, I just don't bring it up, and if they do, I tell them its not up for discussion.) and then tells me, "well, so and so said this" or "so and so said that." He just came back and told me about how he discussed it with his dad today, and about how his dad "supposedly" watched his being done, and it wasn't a big deal, quote 'they just wrapped a piece of string around it and it fell off.' YEAH RIGHT.
Obviously he (fil) has no freaking idea what he is talking about, and he then continued to tell dh about how it was "absolutely disgusting to not circ, and unclean, etc, etc." He then tells dh that I better sign a lot of papers that state that i know what i'm doing by not circing when I go to the hospital, or they will just do it anyways.
Dh tells me all this, and I try to rebute it with the facts, and dh just told me, "yeah, yeah, you tell me this all the time." and walked out. I'm seriously starting to wonder if I can trust him to make sure that things go smoothly at the hospital. Not only concerning circ, but also the same thing has happened regarding my choice not to get the Hep B, eye drops, or the Vit K, he has done the same thing about those too. (but he has no problem with spouting off the facts about those to any of his friends having babies, and why they should research them before doing them!) I will be having a section, so I can't be with the babe right away, and I was counting on him to be there as a partner in protecting our son.

So, to the point of this post, (besides ranting,) does anyone know of a resource that would have all the benefits of being intact, and the drawbacks of being circ'd in a concise, VERY easily read, to the point, article with reference to medical associations that I can give to anyone who gives me grief over this anymore from now on. I also want something to post on the baby's bed in the hospital, so i don't have to explain my logic to anyone post op, then I can just hand them the article, and say, "Enough Said."

[GoldmanBaby09]

The forum resources sticky has all kinds of articles and info. I would look through those. Since it sounds like you are having a planned c/s, why not make sure all your admission paperwork is filled out ahead of time so that you can be certain to write "NO CIRC" across everything. That way you don't have to worry about whether or not DH will take care of it while you are in recovery after the baby is born. Your wishes are already clearly documented. Make sure to have your OB note it big in your chart, too. I'm sorry you IL are not very supportive, but your son's genitals are no one's business but his

[Sailor]

I don't think your dh could circumcise the child in the hospital, while you're in recovery. The doctor's would have to have your permission. Legally, he can't make the decisions in the hospital, on the day of the birth. Technically, the hospital has no real way of knowing that he's the bio dad. So, if they listened to him, and it turned out badly - they'd be in trouble.

However, just in case, as the pp said, write " do NOT circ" on every single form.

In terms of your dh asking everyone - why don't you just ask him why a bunch of people should be so interested in your son's genitals. I mean, really, it's not their penis, and not their decision. I actually find it pretty odd that people - even family - would have such a fixation on the state of another human being's genitals.

[mi.birthdoula]

Originally Posted by GoldmanBaby09

The forum resources sticky has all kinds of articles and info. I would look through those. Since it sounds like you are having a planned c/s, why not make sure all your admission paperwork is filled out ahead of time so that you can be certain to write "NO CIRC" across everything. That way you don't have to worry about whether or not DH will take care of it while you are in recovery after the baby is born. Your wishes are already clearly documented. Make sure to have your OB note it big in your chart, too. I'm sorry you IL are not very supportive, but your son's genitals are no one's business but his

Yeah, I've been looking through the sticky. I'm not too worried about the hospital, and my OB agrees with my decision to leave him intact, so he won't bother even asking. The biggest thing I'm trying to avoid is unneccesary confrontation from family post op. THe last thing I think I will need will be confrontation when I'm in recovery and trying to initiate breastfeeding. I was looking forward to him playing "devils advocate" if you will regarding his family. My fam already views me as the "odd one out" so to speak, so I don't have to worry about that.

[mi.birthdoula]

[QUOTE=Sailor;13854424]I don't think your dh could circumcise the child in the hospital, while you're in recovery. The doctor's would have to have your permission. Legally, he can't make the decisions in the hospital, on the day of the birth. Technically, the hospital has no real way of knowing that he's the bio dad. So, if they listened to him, and it turned out badly - they'd be in trouble.
Not too worried about this, see prior post
However, just in case, as the pp said, write " do NOT circ" on every single form.
definitely doing this
In terms of your dh asking everyone - why don't you just ask him why a bunch of people should be so interested in your son's genitals. This is the thing that is puzzling...he is the one bringing it to their attention (my intentions that is.) I have no problem just leaving people in the dark honestly, it shouldn't concern them in the least IMO.I mean, really, it's not their penis, and not their decision. I actually find it pretty odd that people - even family - would have such a fixation on the state of another human being's genitals.Tell me about it. I mean I never had to hear anything in regards to my choices regarding caring for my DD's genitals when they were born, so why on earth should it be any different with a boy? I think I'm just going to have take care of damage control myself when it comes down to it. I'm not afraid to tell his mother and her husband where and what they can do if they start making a scene (likely) but I really don't want to upset his dad. His dad is just a great guy normally, and his wife is like a second mother to me. Fortunetely, she knows that I'm not an idiot, and I do thorough research before ever coming to a decision, so maybe she will back me up. But, I think his dad will view the sit as better if I can present him with the clear cut concise reasoning behind my decision. I think I may forward him some links from the resource page...

[Treece]

I would probably just say "Our doctors and my research say it's unnecessary and very painful. Besides, why does a healthy newborn need surgery?"

[eepster]

Honestly, If anyone ever spouted such nonsence at me, as your DH got from your FIL, I wouldn't try to argue, I would just start laughing. Of course you don't have to sign any papers to not circ, b/c it is not something you are doing. If you were doing it, then you would have to sign "informed" concent papers.

This is really a matter of mind set. Not circ'ing isn't some big decision that you are making that you need to talk you DH into, it is not making a decision. You are simply not choosing to have major elective surgery during the immediate post natal period. If your DS actually would prefered to be circ'd then he can always just go to a Dr and get it done.

Your DH needs to come up with a reason that you should do something before one choose to have surgery. Is there something wrong with your DS? No, then why does it need to be corrected?

[BlessedMommy2006]

Gotta love the midwest, lol. You and I both live in Michigan where it's considered "fringe" or "freaky" not to cut your kid. I'm sorry that you're having to defend your decision. My MIL said something like, "You always pick the more radical path." Oh, well. Fortunately people aren't required to agree with our decision. My son is happily intact regardless of what anyone else thinks about it!

I'm sorry that your DH appears to be having second thoughts. Has he watched a video of an actual circ?

Maybe you could buy your DS some onesies that say "do not circ" or something like that.

Is it possible for you to be able to rework the birth plan so that DS can stay with you afterward? Are you having GA or an epidural for the surgery?

Best wishes!

[BamaDude]

Originally Posted by mi.birthdoula

He just came back and told me about how he discussed it with his dad today, and about how his dad "supposedly" watched his being done, and it wasn't a big deal, quote 'they just wrapped a piece of string around it and it fell off.' YEAH RIGHT.

That's actually a very simplified, time-compressed, "sanitized-for-your-protection", but essentially accurate description of a Plastbell circumcision.

Originally Posted by mi.birthdoula

Obviously he (fil) has no freaking idea what he is talking about, and he then continued to tell dh about how it was "absolutely disgusting to not circ, and unclean, etc, etc.".

Because I'm a confrontational smart-aleck, I'm always tempted to ask heterosexual guys who make statements like that "What personal experience do you have with a penis other than your own, specifically with one that isn't circumcised?".

But I just bring that up as a point to ponder, not as a suggested line of query for your FIL.

Originally Posted by mi.birthdoula

He then tells dh that I better sign a lot of papers that state that i know what i'm doing by not circing when I go to the hospital, or they will just do it anyways.

Considering that that may very well have been the case twenty or more years ago when your DH was born, I'd guess your FIL is speaking from past personal experience there. During the 50s and 60s, it wasn't unusual for hospitals/doctors to automatically circumcise any newborn males as a matter of course unless the parents were VERY specific about not wanting circumcision done. It's not hard to imagine that in some areas the practice of automatic circumcision continued well into the 70s or 80s.

[earthmama369]

Would it help to have a frank, heartfelt conversation with your dh about how you're feeling right now? You said that you're starting to worry that you won't be able to trust him to support and protect you and your baby in the hospital on a myriad of other issues because of how he's handling this one. That really struck me, and I suspect it would hit home with him, too. He may not -- is very probably not -- thinking about it that way. This is a perspective he should hear.

[eepster]

Originally Posted by BamaDude

Considering that that may very well have been the case twenty or more years ago when your DH was born, I'd guess your FIL is speaking from past personal experience there. During the 50s and 60s, it wasn't unusual for hospitals/doctors to automatically circumcise any newborn males as a matter of course unless the parents were VERY specific about not wanting circumcision done. It's not hard to imagine that in some areas the practice of automatic circumcision continued well into the 70s or 80s.

Come to think of it, my mom who had all her children between 1966 and 1971, went on and on about how I needed to make sure that the hospital was informed that DS wasn't to be circ'd and I needed to go over paper work carefully. I did laugh, and told her that things had changed in the last 30 years, and it wasn't going to be like when she had us (at the exact same hospital.) She was very worried that if we didn't do something, like she and dad had 30+ years earlier, that they would just go ahead and circ DS.

[Greg B]

Here is a short concise page that might help:

http://www.circumstitions.com/Itsaboy.html

And here is another one, more thorough:

http://www.icgi.org/Downloads/Full_Disclosure.pdf

Best wishes

[jessjgh1]

Take a look at this birth film that is supposed to be made mostly for dads and see if he might be receptive to it. Right now there is just the trailer:
http://theothersideoftheglassthefilm.blogspot.com/

It is very pro-intact, as well.

Can you have your OB tell dh s/he doesn't recommend circing? Sometimes you can talk to you are blue in the face, but when someone else says it, they listen.

((Hugs))

Jessica

[robertandenith]

Originally Posted by mi.birthdoula

He just came back and told me about how he discussed it with his dad today, and about how his dad "supposedly" watched his being done, and it wasn't a big deal, quote 'they just wrapped a piece of string around it and it fell off.' YEAH RIGHT.

here is the method your FIL talks about... it's not painful at all <<sarcasm>>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F91zuHAUoY

you can show it to him, please do!

[hakunangovi]

I would be very tempted to ask FIL "Do you really think that after millions of years of evolution, nature made a mistake?" and then point out that 85% of the world's males are intact, and most of those that are circumcised are either jewish or muslim. Also that circumcision is not practiced in Europe, and there has never been any problem there - and, in fact the rate of HIV etc is lower than in the U.S.

[RealLifeDad]

Does he feel this way because he wants his boy to look like him? I used to feel this way when we thought we might have a son. I came around. Here is why.

Show him vid of it being done.

Show him information on the female version.

Show him that the origins of it were strictly ritualistic.

Then when he sees all this, and tells you "I know but I want him to look the same as me, it would just be weird."

Kind of like: "I only have one arm/leg/hand/foot I want my son to look like me."

Kind of like that?

good luck.

[mi.birthdoula]

Originally Posted by RealLifeDad

Does he feel this way because he wants his boy to look like him? I used to feel this way when we thought we might have a son. I came around. Here is why.

Show him vid of it being done.

Show him information on the female version.

Show him that the origins of it were strictly ritualistic.

Then when he sees all this, and tells you "I know but I want him to look the same as me, it would just be weird."

Kind of like: "I only have one arm/leg/hand/foot I want my son to look like me."

Kind of like that?

good luck.

Yeah, I did all that when I first convinced him to leave him intact, and it did work at that time. We are in a different place now...We have been having marital issues, and he will not even say another word about it. He knows that its not worth fighting me over something so trivial to him anymore. He has bigger issues that he needs to work on with me, so he has come to the conclusion of letting me do things how I think they should be done since I'm the one who takes care of the kids, and does the research on all the different aspects of childrearing. He's not too involved with the kids on a day to day basis, so honestly I don't think it will be brought up even after he's born (unless by my absolutely adoring and wonderful MIL) So, I'm not too worried anymore, but thank you for the input, and concern! It always makes me feel good to hear a fathers perspective on the whole issue of circ, and what changed your mind.