Kids NEED to get exposed to bullying/sex/drugs/mean teachers/discipline

[Amila]

WTF!!!!!! When I am trying to talk to friends and family (and DH) about the reasons I want to homeschool I keep getting this crap.

"I was made fun of and it made me a better person"

"You can't shelter your kid- they need conflict"

"So what if they have a few bad teachers, everyone in this world isn't nice, and they need to be exposed to that"

"School will teach them discipline- when to be quiet, when to focus on work, etc"

"Sex and boys and drugs are a part of adolescence- they are going to go crazy in the real world" (like being in school is really depicting a real world situation, )

Oooooookay...I was made fun of and it SUCKED. Made me hate myself and fear going to school. I had teachers that were AWFUL and made me want to leave school every single day.

I had sex at 15.

I experimented with drugs.

I thought about nothing but BOYS while I was in school

I attended make-out parties in SIXTH grade!!!!

Yet, I keep hearing that this was ALL because of my parent's "lack" of parenting skills. In actuality it was mostly because I had the chance to do this crap after school and lied to them about it, and they believed me.

UGHHHHH. Is is so bad to want to shelter your baby from this, at least until they are a teenager? Sheesh.

[SagMom]

I haven't found that homeschooling sheltered my kids from teasing, (they do that to each other! ) unkind people, sex, drugs, etc. There is plenty of conflict in the world that they've gotten exposed to, and loads of places where they need to be quiet, or follow other rules.

What it DID do was to make the family the center of their world (especially in the younger years) so that there was guidance about things like being kind and working out problems in a fair and civil manner. They have a lot of independance, but it's less "Lord of the Flies" than some school experiences can be.

They were able to learn a lot about making choices, since they didn't need to just put up with bullies or poor teachers or unfair rules.

They also didn't get the impression that "everyone" was using drugs, or that they either needed to follow the crowd to be cool, or face the consequences of being the dork.

So, rather than shelter, I think they had more guidance in navigating new or difficult situations than I would have been able to give them if they were off on their own for long periods of time at a young age.

[LovemyBoo]

Here's what I'd say.

"I was made fun of and it made me a better person"

Sarcastic - That's highly debatable.

Serious - So you really suggest making fun of kids to make them better people? Is that in the parenting handbook? I'll risk it my way.

"You can't shelter your kid- they need conflict"

You're sending your kids to school so they can fight? Seriously, school does not corner the market on conflict. My hs'd kids are getting lessons in conflict resolution all the time.

"So what if they have a few bad teachers, everyone in this world isn't nice, and they need to be exposed to that"

Because the rest of the world is filled with sunshine and rainbows. Honestly, do people even hear themselves? There are no difficult people outside of school?



"School will teach them discipline- when to be quiet, when to focus on work, etc"

Discipline? I suppose they'll need it after all the teasing and fighting. Thank you for insinuating that I'm a terrible parent who's children are going to turn into wild animals without the help of the school system.

"Sex and boys and drugs are a part of adolescence- they are going to go crazy in the real world" (like being in school is really depicting a real world situation, )

So let me get this straight. Your reasons for sending children to school are so they can get teased, tease others, fight with each other, have sex and do drugs, so they can all get a good helping of that character-saving discipline? Really??

Yeah. I'll take my chances and screw them up myself, thankyouverymuch.

The logic, it baffles.

[sapphire_chan]

" : Just what kind of school did you go to anyway? Thank goodness you survived! Have you considered counseling? It's really not normal to think that sort of stuff is good. You might have Stockholm Syndrome..."

[hotmamacita]

Silly stuff! People do not really think through their logic at times.

You know you have to follow your heart and stay engaged and involved with your children no matter where they are educated.

[ramama]

Not only is that an unhealthy view of what kids need, it's an unhealthy view of the public school system. Personally, I didn't have mean and bad teachers. Ever. I also didn't have sex until out of high school. I didn't experiment with drugs and alcohol until college. I mean, if they really think that public school is full of drugs, sex, violence and conflict, and mean and nasty people, why don't they work to change that instead of arguing that that's what kids need? If they really think those things exist in their child's school, why would they send them there or make up flimsy excuses that kids need that kind of exposure? I'm baffled...

[HisBeautifulWife]

Originally Posted by LovemyBoo

Here's what I'd say.

So let me get this straight. Your reasons for sending children to school are so they can get teased, tease others, fight with each other, have sex and do drugs, so they can all get a good helping of that character-saving discipline? Really??

:



It's funny how people prove your point for you and they don't even know it.

[Quickbeam]

Sorry you're hearing such nonsense. I recommend (for DH anyway) a book called "Hold Onto Your Kids." It's not religious or preachy or doom-saying or even homeschooling, but the author makes a great argument for why you absolutely should not throw your kids to the dogs, so to speak. The idea is that the world is no longer set up to keep the child's primary attachment to the parents, so children become primarily attached to each other- the blind leading the blind.

Anyway, goos luck deflecting comments and following your mama instinct.

[lovbeingamommy]

I understand your pain, I'm dealing with it right now and my DS is only 3. The "why aren't you sending him to preschool comments have started."

IMO when it comes to certain subjects, such as hs, many people speak their mind with their emotions not researched factual information. I would be willing to bet that most of the people making these comments haven't spent time critically researching both sides of the hs issue. This, of course, is similar to people's comments on other things such as circ, vax, co-sleeping, etc. In my case pretty much anything alternative in percieved as "crazy" by my family. But...back to hs...

I've been an educator in a p.s. for 15 years and counting...taught every grade K-8 including gifted and learning disabled and the one thing I can say is that each child is an individual and deals differently with the statements that you mentioned in your post. Some children are more equipt for whatever reason to not let these things sway them or discourage them. They can let it slide and it doesn't seem to have long term affect. But, IMO, I believe there are just as many that can't deal with these issues and it hinders their educational experience and takes away their joy and love of learning. It's hard to say how my DS would deal with it in p.s., but I'm not willing to take that chance. He will be p/t hs and start at a private school in p/t kinder next year.

I specifically chose to teach in p.s. because I know I can make a difference in some kids' lives and believe I have done so with several students. SO for me as a teacher it's the best place to be.

[Karenwith4]

Originally Posted by Amila

WTF!!!!!! When I am trying to talk to friends and family (and DH) about the reasons I want to homeschool I keep getting this crap.

"I was made fun of and it made me a better person"

"You can't shelter your kid- they need conflict"

"So what if they have a few bad teachers, everyone in this world isn't nice, and they need to be exposed to that"

"School will teach them discipline- when to be quiet, when to focus on work, etc"

"Sex and boys and drugs are a part of adolescence- they are going to go crazy in the real world" (like being in school is really depicting a real world situation, )

Oooooookay...I was made fun of and it SUCKED. Made me hate myself and fear going to school. I had teachers that were AWFUL and made me want to leave school every single day.

I had sex at 15.

I experimented with drugs.

I thought about nothing but BOYS while I was in school

I attended make-out parties in SIXTH grade!!!!

Yet, I keep hearing that this was ALL because of my parent's "lack" of parenting skills. In actuality it was mostly because I had the chance to do this crap after school and lied to them about it, and they believed me.

UGHHHHH. Is is so bad to want to shelter your baby from this, at least until they are a teenager? Sheesh.

Honestly, with the exception of your DH I would stop talking.
For him I would recommend both reading some books and then discussing them.

You might also try to reframe the discussion away from what you don't want to what you do - children that can grow and develop at their own pace, who learn with passion, who are exposed to and involved in a diverse community, who have time to develop a strong sense of self before needing to use that to define what is right and wrong for them, who are able to develop strong family relationships and deep friendships that are based on shared interests etc.

It's much harder to disagree with positives than it is to counter negatives with "it's not so bad". You can also practise the fine art of refocusing: "Thanks for sharing your experience. Here's what we want for our children. "

And if all else fails - pass the bean dip.

[zeldamomma]

A strategy

When someone makes a bizarre assertion like:
"I was made fun of and it made me a better person"

ask them why they think so.

Instead of trying to justify your position, keep asking questions about theirs-- often they'll realize they're wrong, and if they don't at least you have something substantial to respond to. As a bonus, it's not rude, and it moves the conversation away from an attack on you, and make it more of a discussion.

ZM

[waiflywaif]

I had sex at 15.

I experimented with drugs.

I thought about nothing but BOYS while I was in school

I attended make-out parties in SIXTH grade!!!!

Yet, I keep hearing that this was ALL because of my parent's "lack" of parenting skills. In actuality it was mostly because I had the chance to do this crap after school and lied to them about it, and they believed me.

I have to ask, though...

Can you really attribute all of the above to school? You say much of it happened after school and it sounds like your parents were not very tuned in to you if you had all this unaccounted-for free time and the need to lie.

I'm not saying you had bad parents, I'm just saying there are thousands and thousands of kids who don't have those kinds of troubles despite attending school.

I agree that your friends' comments are somewhat ridiculous as a whole.

[mommy68]

When I hear such comments it bothers me too. But I do feel that in a way I am over-sheltering my kids at times because I truly don't want to see them make the same mistakes that I did. However, I'm also much more protective of my children than my parents were since I was a latch key kid from very early in life and my parents divorced, so I think my kids would be okay if they ever had to go back to public or private school, but I don't know. I blame a lot of how I was as a kid on my parents and lack of proper parenting on their part.

I also don't see it as a rite of passage for every teenager to try drugs by a certain age, make out or have sex because every one else is doing it, smoke a cig, drink alcohol, skip school, etc-etc. The main reason I even did the bad things I did in school was due to lack of parental control and peer pressure. I know I'd be home for my children and I'd be in control of their daily structure but I can't prevent them from falling in to the traps of peer pressure. And I know now from experience that having other friends that are home schooled is much more healthy for them. They don't try to compete with them and they aren't worried about impressing their friends in order to keep them. When they were in a school it was the complete opposite.

[mommy68]

Originally Posted by Amila

"Sex and boys and drugs are a part of adolescence- they are going to go crazy in the real world" (like being in school is really depicting a real world situation, )

I would have said that I would much rather see my young adult child deal with the stress of sex and relationships at that point in their life than I would while they are only 13 (or whatever young age) and doing it just because all of their friends are doing it. There really is no difference in whether we allow our kids to be loose and do what they want at 13 or 18. It's all relative. And it doesn't mean a child will go wild because they didn't get to "get it out of their system" before they even hit 16 years old. Plenty of schooled children are raised in very strict religious homes and they make it until young adulthood or marriage before they have sex.

[Karenwith4]

Originally Posted by waiflywaif

I have to ask, though...

Can you really attribute all of the above to school? You say much of it happened after school and it sounds like your parents were not very tuned in to you if you had all this unaccounted-for free time and the need to lie.

I'm not saying you had bad parents, I'm just saying there are thousands and thousands of kids who don't have those kinds of troubles despite attending school.

I agree that your friends' comments are somewhat ridiculous as a whole.

I do think the institution of school is responsible for a lot of this kind of stuff. I think much of this comes from peer pressure - and school is the reason so many of our kids turn from a family centered life to a peer centered one. It takes a strong family and a lot of luck to help kids navigate that kind of culture and even with that, many many kids struggle. I don't think you can take the kids away from the family and place them under the influence of school for the bulk of their time and then not hold the institution at least equally accountable.

[elizawill]

my kids have never been to school in any shape or form. my oldest is only 7.8 and both children have already been exposed to bullying, conflict, mean people, lies, stealing, etc. it's kind of unavoidable, ykwim? as for self-discipline, there are many opportunities outside of school that teach this (sunday school, 4-H camp, karate, girl scouts, AWANA, co-ops, etc). honestly, to imply that school is the only real way to learn group interaction & respect for a group leader...class rules, etc. is absurd. unless you plan to lock your kids in a closet, they will most likely be exposed to all of what you mention at some point in time. now, it may not be to the same degree of course - but my point is... i think people who believe homeschooling is putting our kids in a bubble don't really have a clue about homeschooling to begin with. no matter where your kids are (at home or public school) it comes down to choices. regardless of what they're exposed too, if we teach our children to make wise choices and help them grow as independent thinkers, then i believe a child can thrive in any environment. i hope you and your dh work things out. hugs.

[elizawill]

Originally Posted by SagMom

I haven't found that homeschooling sheltered my kids from teasing, (they do that to each other! ) unkind people, sex, drugs, etc. There is plenty of conflict in the world that they've gotten exposed to, and loads of places where they need to be quiet, or follow other rules.

What it DID do was to make the family the center of their world (especially in the younger years) so that there was guidance about things like being kind and working out problems in a fair and civil manner. They have a lot of independance, but it's less "Lord of the Flies" than some school experiences can be.

They were able to learn a lot about making choices, since they didn't need to just put up with bullies or poor teachers or unfair rules.

They also didn't get the impression that "everyone" was using drugs, or that they either needed to follow the crowd to be cool, or face the consequences of being the dork.

So, rather than shelter, I think they had more guidance in navigating new or difficult situations than I would have been able to give them if they were off on their own for long periods of time at a young age.

i should of read the thread first...then i could have just said: :

[elizawill]

Originally Posted by mommy68

I also don't see it as a rite of passage for every teenager to try drugs by a certain age, make out or have sex because every one else is doing it, smoke a cig, drink alcohol, skip school, etc-etc.

i agree. i did drugs, drinking, etc. but my dh has honestly never been drunk or even tried any type of drug! NEVER! it weirded me out when he told me that! lol. he went to public school and everything. he just has a good head on his shoulders & his parents were really trusting and loving and raised him well. his mom said the key was to let her house be the place where everyone could come and hang out...eat food....stay up late...have a band room....make noise...etc. she always knew where her son was and who his friends were.

ok. i'm done throwing up my comments all over this thread now

[mom2ponygirl]

I have an acquaintance (a grad student) who described in detail the horrible bullying she received from late elementary thru high school. She ended up hospitalized in high school and still suffers from anxiety related disorders. Then she told me how I really need to send my daughter to school. What the?

As we spoke, I realized that she felt that those experiences were what made her who she is now. She is now okay with herself and can work through her issues. I think it was her way of feeling like she wasn't permanently damaged and she would be alright. Once I realized it was her coping mechanism, a way of feeling okay in the world and with herself, I didn't have to think about it really relating to our situation. I listened, nodded politely, and made generic comments about how we all have to travel some strange paths sometimes to get to where we are.

I don't really worry about these types of comments anymore. We've been homeschooling for many years and we have run across kids who bully - and been right there to help deal with it. We've dealt with plenty of kids who don't think rules apply to them, and we've discussed how to deal with that. We're dealing with various kids having 'crushes' on each other and we know who likes who and who told who what. We get to discuss relationships and feelings, all the time and what makes a relationship a good and healthy one. I wouldn't know all these things if they happened to dd while she was away at school. I wouldn't know all her friends and her friends parents so well that I also get to hear everyone elses perspective on what really happened. She will be attending school part-time in the fall, but I know she has so much more confidence in herself than I ever did growing up in public school. Her sense of self-worth is centered on how she feels about herself and her accomplishments and challenges, not what everyone else might think about her.

Anyway, I just think when people bring this stuff up it has much more to do with their old baggage than it does about your choice to homeschool!

[phathui5]

I'd think that the kids are going to be exposed to all that stuff, but with homeschooling they'll have a parent available to guide them through it.