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Parents who CHOOSE not to eat/feed their family organic - Page 6

post #101 of 183
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Originally Posted by montlake View Post
Congrats MDC, yet another thread with sole purpose of being a "crunchier than though" ego stroke fest.
post #102 of 183
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Originally Posted by Delicateflower View Post
I don't eat organic or feed my family organic. It is a very calculated decision.

I amd all about sustainable living, and organic is, to be honest a buzzword that doesn't mean anything about how environmentally sound the growing practices were.

Take herbicides, for example. A single pass with glyphosate to knock down weeds and give your crop a head start in a no-till regime is better than five passes of tilling (especially with a tractor). And yet the high tillage regime that trashes the soil and the local waterways gets the organic label while the no-till does not.

And what is desirable about factory farmed cows being fed organic soybeans to be sold as organic meat and beef, compared to cows living normal lives, supplemented in the winter with (gasp) non-organic feed?
This, a thousand times. "Organic" does not always mean what we think it means, and it is not always the best option. There was a great grouping of articles in Mother Jones magazine recently about this very thing. I have to say it was some of the most enlightening journalism I've ever come across.
post #103 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delicateflower View Post
I don't eat organic or feed my family organic. It is a very calculated decision.
So is this like an organic boycott of sorts, or do you just mean you don't go out of your way to buy organic?
post #104 of 183
I buy organic when it's convenient. Both TJ's and Whole Foods are 35 mins away from our house, across the street from each other. We shop at a well-stocked non-chain supermarket that buys local produce when it can, and does stock some organic. I go for local first and foremost. Our milk, while not organic, comes from a local farm, and I can see the happy cows out at pasture every day.

We also shop a lot at Costco. I buy the organic eggs there... they are cheaper there and the chickens are treated better. But if I see a huge container of show-stoppingly gorgeous strawberries at Costco, I will buy them, same with other fruit/veggies.

My 3.5 year old has gradually cut out all healthy food from his diet. He's down to EZ Mac and chicken nuggets now. He will not touch Annie's, so I bought EZ Mac out of desperation. On days that I serve him healthier food, he basically survives on milk. Yesterday, I served Trader Joe's tri-color tortellini and he ate like it was going out of style. I'll have to pick more up. The only veggie he'll eat are grape tomatoes, so if he's eating chicken nuggets, I am just happy tomatoes are going in as well.

The 1 year old eats most things now, but he is essentially a meat eater... something his brother never was. We barely eat meat around here, so it's something I need to start making more often. My hope right now is that he might hold on to his healthy food likes.

I insist on organic for my dogs and cats. But mainly my reasons for that is that the organic dog and cat commercial diets are a lot cleaner than the super-market petfood variety. The nasty stuff that goes into the regular purina and friskies is horrible, like blood stained wood shavings swept up off the floor and added as a fiber source. We avoided the whole pet food recall issue with melamine. So, it's worth it to me.
post #105 of 183
Lack of local availability- Not all stores carry a selection of organic foods.

Cost- even people with good jobs might have a limited grocery budget or not feel justified spending more

Convenience- not just fast preparation, but easier to find

Preference- some people have a distinct preference for a particular brand or way a food is made

Priority- The priority might be simply to get food into their family. They may not consider the organic label as important as that.
post #106 of 183
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I don't buy into the "organic hype," not when you can buy jumbo boxes of organic pop tarts.
reminded me of last summer when we spent a few days with my SIL and her kids both she and her DH are doctors and are always talking about how they only buy organic.. The entire time we were there the kids (all 6) diet consisted of
Annies chocolate bunny crackers and organic whole milk (eatten like cereal)
organic slices of bread from whole foods smothered in honey
peanutbutter eatten from the jars
organic pop tarts
popcorn lots of popcorn

Deanna
post #107 of 183
I generally value local over organic.
post #108 of 183
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Originally Posted by sunnmama View Post
I generally value local over organic.
Same here.
post #109 of 183
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Originally Posted by sisteeesmama View Post
I also agree that local is good, home grown is good and of course organic pop tarts aren't health food, but if you are already going to eat pop tarts then at least there is no pesticide up in em.
Considering how little fruit is actually in pop tarts, I'd say that is one of the products not work buying organic.
post #110 of 183
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Originally Posted by sisteeesmama
I haven't read this whole thread.

But once again I am surprised by some of the negative comments.

I did think MDC was a crunchy-ish forum full of crunchy ideas.

It does always surprise me how many un-crunchy people are on here
How do you define "un-crunchy"?
Can you really call a person "un-crunchy" based on their opinions on one subject?
post #111 of 183
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Originally Posted by Amylcd View Post
How do you define "un-crunchy"?
Can you really call a person "un-crunchy" based on their opinions on one subject?
I am getting a kick out of how the organic snobs are being out-crunchied by the locavores and by DelicateFlower's wonderfully mindful posts.
post #112 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by sisteeesmama View Post
I haven't read this whole thread.

But once again I am surprised by some of the negative comments.

I did think MDC was a crunchy-ish forum full of crunchy ideas.

It does always surprise me how many un-crunchy people are on here.

What could be bad about organic food~ food that is not laden with pesticides and God only knows what else......and it does confound me that people can seem to come up with so many excuses why eating SAD really isn't that bad for you/big a deal.

To me it is very surprising.


Would you eat a SAD and then be surprised when you weren't healthy/had health problems?
I don't know about this - organic vs not labled organic hardly says much else about what people eat.

There are a few things an organic lable can tell a person. On the other hand, it's quite possible to grow legally "organic" food in a factory farm-unsustainable-unethical way. Most of the organic produce available here in winter comes from factory farms in California, Mexico, or China, just like the other stuff. I try to keep to the turnip and carrots produced nearby, although they have no organic lable.

The farm I buy most of our meat products from has an eco-system model of farming. They use many rare breeds, they butcher themselves so there is no shipping stress, they are committed to good pasture management and real organic principles of feeding the soil, they don't routinely give drugs to livestock and they encourage/allow natural animal behaviors, they grow their animal feeds on site for the most part barring bad harvests But, they aren't certified organic.
post #113 of 183
There are hundred or thousands of reasons why everyone does not "go organic".

I suppose I can speak for only myself...

1. I like to eat locally when possible; lots of local food is organic.
2. I don't trust the label "organic". This term does not seem to necessarily equal what I look for in an ingredient. I especially don't trust the "organic" items I find at the larger food stores (which is all my city has). But even at the store, I don't take it for granted that the things labeled as organic ARE actually organic, or have been handled in a way to keep them that way, etc. And I strongly suspect many things are labeled this way and are not actually organic.
3. It's expensive.

I would love to walk into a local store with local, organic, fresh food, where I trusted that it actually WAS organic, and knew where it came from, etc. But that's not the reality I'm living in.
post #114 of 183
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Originally Posted by RunnerDuck View Post
I think there is a lot of elitism attached to eating all organic... and even if there ARE benefits to it I don't think it's realistic. I don't know if I have all the facts wrong or not but... there are now a HECK of a lot of people in this country (and the world). You can grow way more food non-organically than you can organically, acre per acre, right? If all food were to be produced/grown/whatever organically... first of all would there even be enough food for everyone? And if so it would be prohibitively expensive... wouldn't it?
I have to admit that I am also shocked by some of the comments in this thread (the one above is just an example I'll talk about in a second, not singling RunnerDuck out). And it isn't just a "crunchier than thou" designer-jeans organic "hype."

If I had to choose between an organic apple shipped from China or a non-organic apple (assuming I don't know the specific farming practices like I might at a farmers market) I would definitely choose the organic! And I respectfully submit, financial considerations aside, that you should too!

Children fed non-organic food show 6 to 9 times as much toxins in their bodies and children fed organic food: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3076638/ increasing their risk of bone and brain cancer, neuroblastoma and childhood leukemia.

The idea that the environmental impact of the long drive of organic produce somehow negates the health benefits is also false. Fossil fuels are used in huge amounts in industrialized farming practices.
Quote:
large quantities of fossil energy based fertilizers are major sources of nutrient enhancement of agricultural soils throughout the world. Pesticides are also fossil based and their production and use imply a significant consumption of fossil energy. Annual world pesticide use has been estimated at 2.5 million metric tons, of which 0.6 million metric tons are used in North America.
Quote:
For some major crops like corn, crop rotations have been abandoned. Now nearly 50 percent of U. S. corn land is grown continuously as a monoculture. This has caused an increase in the number of corn pests and the need for more pesticides to protect the crop. Since 1945 the use of synthetic pesticides in the U. S. has grown 33-fold, yet crop losses to pests continue to increase.
Quote:
Currently worldwide there is serious degradation of land, water, and biological resources generated by the increasing use of fossil energy by the world's population. Already, more fossil energy is used than is available in the form of a sustainable supply of biomass, more nitrogen fertilizer is used per year than could be obtained by natural supply, water is pumped out of underground reservoirs at a higher rate than it is recharged, and more minerals are taken out of mines than are formed by biogeochemical cycles. Fossil energy and technology enabled humans to (temporarily) sustain excesses. At present and projected world population levels, the current pattern of human development is not ecologically sustainable. The world economic system is built on depleting, as fast as possible, the very natural resources on which human survival depends.
source: http://dieoff.org/page69.htm

In response to the pp quoted at the top, the opposite is true. If we don't adopt sustainable (including organic methods) farming we will not be able to feed the world population. This site is good and has some good graphs resources: http://www.theglobaleducationproject...d-and-soil.php

A study from Cornell found that yield of organic crops equalled that of conventional farming with a decreased use of energy and pesticides. source: http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/...other.ssl.html

In addition to the health problems and energy consumption, we have decreased biodiversity (we've went from relying on 80,000 species to 150) and conventional farming degrades the land by removing topsoil
Quote:
It takes approximately 500 years to replace 25 millimeters (1 inch) of topsoil lost to erosion. The minimal soil depth for agricultural production is 150 millimeters. From this perspective, productive fertile soil is a nonrenewable, endangered ecosystem.
source:http://egj.lib.uidaho.edu/egj09/piment1.htm

We can't afford not to support organic farming (if we can at all afford it - I understand that many people have neither the funds or access to this type of product). I tell my friends that I give to the charity of organic/sustainable farming through my grocery budget instead of giving to x charity directly. Of course local organic is better than shipped from China and many local farms (I'm in Ohio) are not "certified organic" but still have sustainable practices, so my point isn't to trust the organic label explicitly.

To the OP - I think this thread, filled with the wonderful, intelligent MDC mamas answers your question perfectly.
post #115 of 183
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Originally Posted by betsyj View Post
I bet only one kid in a million would eat that. .
My kids love chick peas, and both of them count tomatoes among their favorite foods. I've served chick peas as a snack during playdates and seen lots of kids gobble them up. :

Would they rather have boxed mac-n-cheese? Maybe. But lots of kids I know will enjoy chick peas and tomatoes.
post #116 of 183
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If I had to choose between an organic apple shipped from China or a non-organic apple (assuming I don't know the specific farming practices like I might at a farmers market) I would definitely choose the organic! And I respectfully submit, financial considerations aside, that you should too!
I would never buy food (or anything else) shipped from China. I would buy local, or go without until I could find it grown locally.
post #117 of 183
I have to admit that I'm hestitant about MIC organics, largely because there have been so many quality control scandals coming out of China. I have my doubts about how accurate the organic label even is, yk?

I buy some organic, and as I said, I try to avoid the "dirty dozen" in conventional foods as much as I can. (I do cave on strawberries sometimes, though - we eat a lot of them...and sometimes the conventional ones are in better shape. I know I should just forgo the berries when there aren't good organic ones...but I haven't been able to bring myself to do that very often.)

I buy some organic, partly to reduce the toxin load in the bodies of my family, but also to support organic farming, in general. I buy local for two reasons, as well - to cut down on food shipping, and to support local farmers. If I never buy, I'm cutting down on the economic viability of those farming techniques, imo.

That said...I really need to get a garden plot going, too. We have nowhere to put one here, but I could probably borrow a piece of my mom's yard...
post #118 of 183
I am not "anti-organic" but I think that there is a lot of organic bs & hype. Honestly, I focus more on 1) eating healthy/unprocessed foods, 2) eating a balanced diet, 3) eating locally grown, and 4) eat organic fruit & veggies for the "dirty dozen" IF we can afford it that week.

We try to cut our exposure to harmful chemicals where we can but honestly I do not have enough hours in the day to avoid every known source - it is everywhere .... in the air we breath, the water that waters our garden, our clothes, homes, cars, everything that we own. We have picked a level of avoidance that where we can still live a happy life as a family and with others.
post #119 of 183
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Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
I have to admit that I'm hestitant about MIC organics, largely because there have been so many quality control scandals coming out of China. I have my doubts about how accurate the organic label even is, yk?
I have to admit that I too am very skeptical about "organic" food from China. Have never bought it.
post #120 of 183
I'm not anti organic, but I'm against judging something as good or better simply because of the label.

Shipping takes a huge toll on the environment and should never be discounted in terms of how "good" something is for you personally or the earth in general. Here in Norway I see a lot of organic fruits and veg in the bigger stores near me but I know that they haven't come from anywhere even close to local are often in miserable shape by the time they show up on the shelves here.

In addition I would choose non organic eggs that I know come from a responsible freerange source over the mass produced "organic" eggs I can buy in the store here that I know are coming out of exactly the same living conditions as their regular eggs but with different feed tossed into the bins. The same pretty much goes for meats as well.

I guess I just don't think that the organic label actually means everything that many people would like to associate with the idea of food thats better for you, the animal and the planet. Just as not every consumer can afford to buy organic, not every environmentally friendly responsible grower/producer out there can afford to check every box that is required to becoming officially organic. And sometimes quite frankly as several of the pps have brought up, the tradeoff isn't worth it anyway. Just because something isn't labeled organic doesn't mean it's coated in poison or that the person buying it doesn't care about their family.
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