Most authentic Bible/Torah/Quran translations?

[Sailor]

I'm looking for a recommendation for the most authentic or true Bible, Quran, and Torah translations. In English.

There are so many versions out there! I went into the book store today, and there were two aisles of this stuff. I could not, for the life of me, figure out which translations were the best. I googled it ... but, there are recommendations for several translations, and I couldn't decide between those either.

I need this more for secular study versus spiritual devotion. So, lots of end notes and footnotes, and maps would be fantastic. But, not 100% necessary.

I just want translations that are as close to the originals as possible. It doesn't have to be an "easy" read. Just as authentic as possible. I wish I could read in the originals, but alas.

I thought you knowledgeable mamas would know.

[Bluegoat]

I know there are some New Testament translations designed for students which are very directly translated from the Greek. I think some have notes and there are likely commentaries you can get to go with them.

This is something you would have to be a little careful using - a direct translation like this is not always the most accurate to the meaning of the text, especially if you haven't any background in the grammatical conventions of the language. So a good guide, or teacher, would be important.

I'll do a little search and see if I can find one, but if not, I would recommend going to a Christian book store of some kind and asking the staff (towns with Roman Catholic cathedrals will often have a bookstore attached that might be helpful), or if you have a theological school around, go to their bookstore or library. Or any good public librarian will be able to track it down for you.

Another possibility would be to learn a bit of Biblical Greek - a largish task but it's much easier than Classical Greek.

Edit: I also wanted to point out, that even with a very direct translation, someone has compiled the text which has then been translated. Which example of the New Testament is the "right" one? Scholars look at all the early ones we have and pick the best, based on philology to a large degree, but thoughts as to meaning also creep into it. A good translation will point out where there is major disputes. I think this becomes more difficult with Old Testament stuff, as it's a lot older, and there are lots of commentaries devoted to discussing it, both Christian and Jewish. So that also impacts on finding the "best" translation.

Ultimately, it's very hard to look at these texts without understanding a history/method of interpretation, and I think it can be plausible that for most of us, that is far more useful than finding a very literal translation. But then, I have never bought into the idea that the texts can completely speak for themselves within Christianity - I'm not sure what Judaism or Islam would say about this.

[Tradd]

Well, among Christians, at least, it depends on the faith tradition you're talking about, because it's VERY diverse!

The Orthodox and the Catholics have a longer Old Testament canon - aka "The Apocrypha" as it's known in Protestant Bibles.

Catholics in the US have their own "authorized" (by the Catholic bishops' conference) translation.

The King James Version is based on an older set of Greek manuscripts for the NT, but this is actually historically much closer to what was used in the Orthodox Church for centuries in Greek Bibles (and the Slavonic, translated from the Greek), aka the "Received" or "Byzantine" text. The Orthodox OT is based on a 3rd century BC Greek translation of the Hebrew, aka the Septuagint. For Orthodox who want an easier to understand translation, the NEW King James is preferred (this is what was used for the NT in the Orthodox Study Bible, the OT is a new translation of the Greek Septuagint text.

The Revised Standard Version is available in a really nice study Oxford Annotated Study Bible. The RSV has been used by scholars for years (originally issued in the 1950s) when they wanted a Bible in English. It was the first widely-accepted update of the KJV. The RSV is widely used among Orthodox, and among Catholics in a Catholic edition (slightly tweaked in places).

Many Protestants are KJV-only, but the New International Version (NIV) is used among many, many Evangelical Protestants.

Myself, I use the RSV and the Orthodox Study Bible.

It's funny, this just came up on an Orthodox email list I'm on, which is why I had all this info at the front of my brain.

[Sailor]

Bluegoat - Ah, you bring up very good points about authenticity that I didn't think about. Thanks.

The theology school is a good idea. Maybe I could even find one beyond my area, and email for a syllabus or recommendations for books. I don't know if they accommodate non prospective students that way ... but, I'll definitely try it.

I would love to find a well versed teacher in this area. I've looked, but it seems that such teachers are in short supply. They're either all way outside of where I live (socal), already teaching at various Universities, and thus don't do private lessons. Naturally, none of the Universities are near me so I can't audit. I should have took this study up when I was living in NYC!

I thought about going to a priest or rabbi ... but, I'm not sure how much they've studied. I mean, I went to Catholic school for 8 years and I'm clueless! Also I'm not sure it would be appropriate to ask them. I don't want to bother them with my secular study when they probably have better things to do in terms of helping the people who actually go to their church/temple/mosque. And I definitely don't want to offend or overstep.

Maybe I should start with the basics. Which translations do all of you use, when immersing yourself in the work?

And then I could branch off from there. Right now, I have no Bibles or any other Holy Books in my house. So, maybe, starting at a basic level would be better, and then branching out to the more "advanced".

Tradd - what perfect timing on your email list! Thanks for all of that.

Now that I've read this, maybe I should take one major religion at a time. It seems like tackling all 3 at once would be a HUGE and overwhelming undertaking. Maybe this could be more of a 3 year project, versus all at once.

[Bluegoat]

Originally Posted by Sailor

Bluegoat - Ah, you bring up very good points about authenticity that I didn't think about. Thanks.

The theology school is a good idea. Maybe I could even find one beyond my area, and email for a syllabus or recommendations for books. I don't know if they accommodate non prospective students that way ... but, I'll definitely try it.

I would love to find a well versed teacher in this area. I've looked, but it seems that such teachers are in short supply. They're either all way outside of where I live (socal), already teaching at various Universities, and thus don't do private lessons. Naturally, none of the Universities are near me so I can't audit. I should have took this study up when I was living in NYC!

I thought about going to a priest or rabbi ... but, I'm not sure how much they've studied. I mean, I went to Catholic school for 8 years and I'm clueless! Also I'm not sure it would be appropriate to ask them. I don't want to bother them with my secular study when they probably have better things to do in terms of helping the people who actually go to their church/temple/mosque. And I definitely don't want to offend or overstep.

Maybe I should start with the basics. Which translations do all of you use, when immersing yourself in the work?

And then I could branch off from there. Right now, I have no Bibles or any other Holy Books in my house. So, maybe, starting at a basic level would be better, and then branching out to the more "advanced".

Tradd - what perfect timing on your email list! Thanks for all of that.

Now that I've read this, maybe I should take one major religion at a time. It seems like tackling all 3 at once would be a HUGE and overwhelming undertaking. Maybe this could be more of a 3 year project, versus all at once.

Yes, I would definatly work on one at a time. Chronologically would be one way to go, or you could start with the one you had best access to resources in, or you could go with the one you have the most personal familiarity with. I think the latter is best if you are a lot more familiar with one than the others.

It might be hard to get a priest or Rabbi for a secular study, but you could probably get one to recommend some good translations or commentaries to start with. Some churches do have introductions to the Bible, but the quality can vary greatly.

From the Christian perspective, I'd start with three translations, and make sure one is a good study Bible. I like the RSV for a study Bible, and I'd likely pick a King James, and then something different. And if you are doing it alone, a commentary or guide that is broken up into lessons or books is very helpful. You might want to consider doing the NT first, there are disadvantages to that but it works well for some people who find the OT more confusing or strange.

[Natsuki]

I like the ESV (English Standard Version) translation of the Bible.

[Sailor]

Ah, so much to think about. I think I will begin with Christianity first, as I am most familiar with this, and can realistically start this study soon. Then, I'll head over to Judaism. And then end with Islam.

In terms of Christianity, is it a good idea to branch out from the books included in the Bible? I know there is some disagreement about authenticity, so I'm not sure if it's worth studying what Judas (apparently) wrote or the things Paul (apparently) wrote but weren't included in the Bible. Or is that just too advanced, and/or not even remotely pertinent?

All of you have been really helpful, by the way. Thanks.

[Bluegoat]

Originally Posted by Sailor

Ah, so much to think about. I think I will begin with Christianity first, as I am most familiar with this, and can realistically start this study soon. Then, I'll head over to Judaism. And then end with Islam.

In terms of Christianity, is it a good idea to branch out from the books included in the Bible? I know there is some disagreement about authenticity, so I'm not sure if it's worth studying what Judas (apparently) wrote or the things Paul (apparently) wrote but weren't included in the Bible. Or is that just too advanced, and/or not even remotely pertinent?

All of you have been really helpful, by the way. Thanks.

I would finish the conventional Bible before I got into those things. In many cases, they were left out for good reasons, and they also won't have informed the tradition. But it would be an interesting separate study.

[Sailor]

That's what I was thinking. Thanks so much!

[Liquesce]

Honestly, I think those are "ask twenty different people, receive twenty different answers" kind of questions.

[Sailor]

Originally Posted by Liquesce

Honestly, I think those are "ask twenty different people, receive twenty different answers" kind of questions.

Yea, I figured that to be the case.

But, since I had zero opinions or answers, I thought that having 20 (or more) would be better.

The more, the merrier.

[Liquesce]

Originally Posted by Sailor

Yea, I figured that to be the case.

But, since I had zero opinions or answers, I thought that having 20 (or more) would be better.

The more, the merrier.

Well. For a Qur'an I usually suggest M.A.S. Abdel Haleem's. It's concise, literal enough while taking into account turns of phrase and stylistic issues that just won't translate clearly, and uses footnotes where needed without using so many that the text itself is buried by them. Muhammad Asad's in another good choice, but it is pretty heavy on subjective interpretation and is about ten times thicker than the actual text due to the abundance of footnotes. I also like Abdalhaqq & Aisha Bewley's translation, mostly because it leaves difficult to translate words alone in the text itself and relies on a glossary to explain them better than would be possible in context. They basically force the reader to learn at least a small handful of Arabic words, to their own comprehension's benefit.

Most authentic though ... I wouldn't even begin to try to pin that claim on one over another.

[Sailor]

Thanks. I think I actually just saw one of those translations at the library. I should have grabbed it!

I think I seriously need to contact someone and get a syllabus or have a more "informed" person give me a year long outline for a course of study. Just going to my (not to great) public library yielded me 20 books (that is the check out limit, I had more), and I'm utterly overwhelmed. I'm all over the place with this, and don't think I have enough knowledge to organize a year long course of study for myself.

I'm going to start sending mass emails to schools and beg for their syllabus! Or mass emails to theologians and beg for a basic course of study.

I've always been interested in religions, but a few months ago, I realized that I had never really immersed myself in their study. I went to Catholic school, but I don't remember any real immersion in the religion classes I took. It was just basic stuff.

Then when I decided I was an atheist, I read SO much about that area, but absolutely nothing about the other side, so to speak.

I really have only a very shallow knowledge of most religions. That seems wrong to me, somehow. Not only because, culturally and historically, religion plays a huge part. But, also, it seems that, in order to make fully informed decisions about my own beliefs, I should immerse myself in the study of all other beliefs. At the very least, I should have more than a shallow knowledge of them. After all, how can I reject something I don't really know? That doesn't seem logical.

Plus, I'm also intrigured and fascinated by theology. I suppose, though I'm studying, right now, from a secular point, I'm also interested in this from a personal point.

So, I thought I would start with these 3, and work my way out from there.

And, now, I'm babbling! Sorry to be longwinded, but this is several months of ideas finally reaching a comprehensible point.

Anyway - off to stalk some theologians and Universities. Thanks again for the help.

[DahliaRW]

My dh has studied Biblical Greek and he prefers the English Standard Version. But he does read it right alongside his Greek Bible.

[Sailor]

There's actually Biblical Greek offered at my local community college, of all places. Maybe I'll check it out.

Thanks for the input.

[Bluegoat]

A good overview book is The World's Religions, by Huston Smith. It gives a very good overview of the major world religions, and most libraries have it. It's a little less useful on the differences within the religions.

There is also this, which I haven't read, but I know some people find a good starting place. It's a Roman Catholic book, which might be ideal since your background is RC, you can always look up some separate Protestant viewpoints as well. It gives a reading plan and some information on how the texts have been interpreted. THere are also links to other books along the same lines at the bottom of the page.

[xekomaya]

The traditional Catholic answer to this would be the Douay-Rheims, but its much harder to find and very expensive to buy with commentary and maps etc.The Jerusalem Bible is also very good for intention of the old texts. The big no no among acceptable Catholic translations would be those with inclusive language- where "Brethren" has been changed to "Brothers and Sisters" in deviation from the original texts and things like that.

[Sailor]

Ah, this is good to know about Catholic translations. Thanks.

And thank you for finding that Seeker series! It actually looks perfect in terms of what I need.

Among the library books, I have what seems to be a really good NT study book. You can use it while you read along with a Bible, and it's from the Roman Catholic point of view. Then, on the flip side, I found a great book that follows the Hebrew scriptures. Between these two and the Seeker series, I think I'm set.

Now, I'm just exploring Bible options. Thanks everyone, you all have been incredibly helpful!

[Tradd]

Originally Posted by Sailor

Tradd - what perfect timing on your email list! Thanks for all of that.

Sailor, the discussion on my email list has continued, and one of the articles referenced was by an Orthodox priest on the Orthodox view of Biblical translations in English. Thought you would find it interesting, if not actually helpful!

http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhite...anslations.htm

[Bluegoat]

Tradd, that was very interesting. I was tickled that he mentioned the Coverdale Psalter, I could never figure out why they replaced it in the new prayer book, it is undoubtedly a better read in every way.