He's 4 and a half - should he be 'listening and following instruction' by now? PLEASE HELP!

[Mama_2_Boy]

I'm getting into a big disagreement with DH here. Is it reasonable to expect that DS should be listening now at this age? There are still alot of instances where I say no; don't do that; please stop; or what have you and he does not listen. I am trying to be patient and in order to avoid some of my own issues with dealing with these kinds of things, I usually end just gritting my teeth, looking at him and "PLEASE LISTEN". Anyways, DH states "he knows what no means so he should just listen!". We continue to have this one teacher in school point out that he does not listen to her. I kinda am starting to not like her. The kids have journals and she writes it in the comment section, and now she has asked that we sign it, that we acknowledge reading it. Well what does she expect us to do? I can't very well force him to listen if he's not!

Anyways I'm feeling pressure here to somehow make my child 'change' to fit everyone else's expectations and I'm really at a loss. Yes he can hear by the way, there are no issues with his hearing. It more seems to me like strong impulse control thing and I'm not sure how to address it.

Please provide me with your thoughts.
Thank you.

[BoringTales]

I agree with your husband. 4.5 is more than old enough to be expected to listen. Obviously every child is going to test boundaries and limitations and naturally want to do what they want, but its our job as parents to teach them to listen and follow instructions and rules.

[earthmama369]

By age 2(ish) with both my kids, I felt that they were able to reliably hear me and follow relatively complicated instructions (2+ steps). One of my children does have less innate interest in learning impulse control than my other one, but at almost 3 now, I expect him to make an effort to learn. I also expect that he's going to need a lot of help. Right now, that involves a lot of physical and verbal prompting, games to help him focus on the task at hand, and repetition ad nauseum. But the goal is to not have to do all that in the future -- we're investing a lot of time right now so that our whole family will be happier and more functional in the future.

I would that at 4, your son is either choosing not to listen or there's something going on (like an issue with impulse control) that makes it very hard for him to follow instructions. Either situation needs to be dealt with, because either one will make life much harder for him than it needs to be both now and later on. It's already causing issues now. Would you consider getting an evaluation for hearing, processing, and impulse control? Or maybe ramp up slower by doing some research and trying out different approaches at home to help him focus and follow instructions when he needs to?

[Isamama]

We are going through some listening issues right now as well. My dd is quite as old as your ds, but they are in the ballpark. She has listened in the past, so I know she can. I also know, in our family, we are going through some big changes, so I know she isn't capable of listening and following through right now. I say "isn't capable" b/c when there is a lot going on it is hard for an adult to concentrate let alone a 4 y/o.

We are more successful when we: connect before we direct, are calm, and are setting gentle and firm boundaries. Having said that, we (dh and I) are having a difficult time right now and have not been able to do the above too well at certain times (or a lot of the times depending on the day).

Good luck.

[4inMyHeart3inArms]

I'm not a kid but I still choose not to listen sometimes

[sleet76]

My DS is 4, and has a lot of impulse control and attention issues. He has a lot of trouble being redirected verbally. "Please stop......Henry STOP it.....(hand clap to get attention) HEN! STOP!...."(as I'm moving in his driection quickly to physically end whatever he's up to before something gets broken or someone gets hurt) I have two other kids also, and his level of "not listening" is not typical. He would be very difficult to have in a classroom. He stands out at church Sunday school, our homeschool group stuff, the soccer team he attempted to play on with his sister, etc...

I don't know if your DS has the same or similar issues as mine does, but my DS has ADHD, with impulse control issues, hyperactivity, and inattention issues. It may be something to keep in the back of your mind or check into.

[Surfacing]

Originally Posted by 4inMyHeart3inArms

I'm not a kid but I still choose not to listen sometimes

[One_Girl]

He should be listening much more than he was when he was younger. It isn't going to be one hundred percent at any age, but he should be gaining a lot more self control. One thing that helped me with my dd was asking her to respond to me in some way if it was a negotiable thing and to tell her I wasn't offering a choice if it wasn't something that was negotiable. The pre-school teacher probably wants you to talk to your son about the importance of listening at school but not punish him. That is what my dd's pre-school teachers did with dd. I think you should listen to your husbands concerns and the teacher's concerns. There are gentle things you can do to insist that your son listens. You also have the option of pulling him out and homeschooling him if you don't want him to have to learn to listen in group school settings.

[paquerette]

Mine is almost 4.5 and is just starting to grasp the idea of listening once in a while. And she still has plenty of days where she just does not listen at all. I do think it's a variation of normal.

She responds pretty well to "rules". If I say "don't climb on the back of the couch, it's not safe, it's not good for the couch" etc she won't listen almost for sure, but if I say "it's the rule not to climb on the back of the couch" she listens most of the time. I kind of got this idea from Your Four Year Old, which I love.

[Mama_2_Boy]

Thank you for all the replies.
As far as his level of listening goes...well sometimes he does, and sometimes he doesn't...it's like he chooses when to listen. For example last night we got home and it was starting to pour. Heading into the house he was distracted by a toy truck he left in the yard and started heading towards it. I was calling to him, 'come on, it's starting to pour', he says 'ok' but proceeds to get his toy and start playing with it. It start again, 'lets go, NOW" and he ignores me and continues to play. But its not always like this. He sits through supper with us, stays at the table until he's done. Actually during alot of occassions when I really need for him to pay attention when we are out doing something or going somewhere, he is all there. I just don't get it. And yes to another posters comment, he definitly listens now alot more than say a year ago. I'm hoping this is a developmental thing and that he is just catching up. It doesn't help that we through him into jk just this past March and the program is ALL french. I think that is part of his disenchantement with sitting through lessons or listening to the teacher. DH is going to speak to the teacher this morning when dropping DS off at school I want him to speak to the afternoon daycare lady as well because we've never heard any complaints from her.

[aran]

My DS1 (will be 5 next month) does not always respond to verbal requests either, and it seems to me it is because his intrinsic compulsion to do something (e.g., stay out in the rain with the truck) is stronger than the extrinsic call to stop doing it. For my DS1, he needs to know a logical, compelling reason *before* he is willing to comply with a request. This is a constant difficulty. I ask him to comply first, and discuss later, but he overestimates his own abilities and judgment, so I end up having to physically "help him" stop when it's time to stop something that is dangerous, harmful, inappropriate, etc. I am certain it's not ADHD, because he doesn't meet the diagnostic criteria... he does and will pay attention and follow directions etc., when he understands why it's needed and he agrees it is important. BUT, I *know* I could not put DS1 in a school right now. It would be a disaster for this and other reasons. We homeschool. Sorry to ramble - I just am wondering if your DS is similar - that is, only complies when he agrees/understands the reasoning behind the request? If so, I wouldn't worry about ADHD, and I would just wait for his judgment to catch up with his sense of fairness. The school situation could be hard... I wonder if the daycare lady is doing activities your DS likes better and so he "buys in" to her requests and complies more readily compared to the JK teacher, who has different expectations.

[Mama_2_Boy]

Originally Posted by aran

My DS1 (will be 5 next month) does not always respond to verbal requests either, and it seems to me it is because his intrinsic compulsion to do something (e.g., stay out in the rain with the truck) is stronger than the extrinsic call to stop doing it. For my DS1, he needs to know a logical, compelling reason *before* he is willing to comply with a request. This is a constant difficulty. I ask him to comply first, and discuss later, but he overestimates his own abilities and judgment, so I end up having to physically "help him" stop when it's time to stop something that is dangerous, harmful, inappropriate, etc. I am certain it's not ADHD, because he doesn't meet the diagnostic criteria... he does and will pay attention and follow directions etc., when he understands why it's needed and he agrees it is important. BUT, I *know* I could not put DS1 in a school right now. It would be a disaster for this and other reasons. We homeschool. Sorry to ramble - I just am wondering if your DS is similar - that is, only complies when he agrees/understands the reasoning behind the request? If so, I wouldn't worry about ADHD, and I would just wait for his judgment to catch up with his sense of fairness. The school situation could be hard... I wonder if the daycare lady is doing activities your DS likes better and so he "buys in" to her requests and complies more readily compared to the JK teacher, who has different expectations.

Geez it's like a lightbuld just went off in my head!
Reading this now has just reminded me of all the times I actually had the patience to explain something to DS about why I ask for something, then he complies. And YES! It totally takes effort and on most occassions its not the first response I have because I really have to go into detail about something and it seems like a long winded (and even like it's too much informaiton for him to handle) but OH MY GOD, its so true! We had gone straight to the store before home last night and he saw this shiny fishing rod, he really wanted it. I told him he could hold it and he insisted we buy it. I kept saying no. He kept insisting. This went on for about 10 minutes. But when I finally took a big sigh and said "look, the fishing rod is $40, and it's alot of money. Second, you already have two at the cottage. Now don't you agree that $40 could be spent on something else much more enjoyable that you don't yet have?" He thought about it for a few seconds, and said "ok, I will put it back" and he did, just like that.
Maybe I just don't give him enough credit, and maybe I should just take the time to go into details about stuff and explain.

[ambivamom]

My lo (just turned 4) is on-and-off with listening, too.
I have found that if I try to tell him something from across the room/from another room, and particularly when he is involved in play, then he will not respond as often.

It helps me to make contact (eye or physical) before talking. I also make a point to ask for a verbal response or repeat of what I just said when I give him instructions.

[aran]

Originally Posted by Mama_2_Boy

Geez it's like a lightbuld just went off in my head!
Reading this now has just reminded me of all the times I actually had the patience to explain something to DS about why I ask for something, then he complies. And YES! It totally takes effort and on most occassions its not the first response I have because I really have to go into detail about something and it seems like a long winded (and even like it's too much informaiton for him to handle) but OH MY GOD, its so true! We had gone straight to the store before home last night and he saw this shiny fishing rod, he really wanted it. I told him he could hold it and he insisted we buy it. I kept saying no. He kept insisting. This went on for about 10 minutes. But when I finally took a big sigh and said "look, the fishing rod is $40, and it's alot of money. Second, you already have two at the cottage. Now don't you agree that $40 could be spent on something else much more enjoyable that you don't yet have?" He thought about it for a few seconds, and said "ok, I will put it back" and he did, just like that.
Maybe I just don't give him enough credit, and maybe I should just take the time to go into details about stuff and explain.

I am glad my post resonated. Your story sounds *exactly* like something my DS would do. It takes so much energy! The other day I was exasperated and said "Please, please, please.... I wish you'd just go along with my requests *sometimes* without a long explanation." Then I thought about it and said, "I am really glad you want to know why I make the decisions I do. That's a great way to learn." I think this trait our sons have would be great in an adult. It tires the heck out of me now, though!

[Mama_2_Boy]

Originally Posted by aran

I am glad my post resonated. Your story sounds *exactly* like something my DS would do. It takes so much energy! The other day I was exasperated and said "Please, please, please.... I wish you'd just go along with my requests *sometimes* without a long explanation." Then I thought about it and said, "I am really glad you want to know why I make the decisions I do. That's a great way to learn." I think this trait our sons have would be great in an adult. It tires the heck out of me now, though!

I think I expect too much sometimes...expect him to comply kwim? But how often do we really have conversations like this with adults...I always take the time to explain my rationale to co-workers/dh/friends....how profound this feeling is.

[aran]

Originally Posted by Mama_2_Boy

I think I expect too much sometimes...expect him to comply kwim? But how often do we really have conversations like this with adults...I always take the time to explain my rationale to co-workers/dh/friends....how profound this feeling is.

LOL! Good way to put it! Can you imagine DH wanting to buy the fishing rod and saying "No, now come one let's go." Wouldn't happen here! And I *always* take a long time to explain my rationale at work. But the tiring thing about my 4 yo is that I have to explain things that adults would already "get." That's the tiring part. I do struggle with thinking that DS should "get" stuff that he doesn't yet. In some ways he seems so old, but he isn't really and that's hard to remember sometimes.

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

I know that, even as an adult, I will sometimes say "yes" to answer a question from DH (or kids) but that doesn't mean I actually heard or processed what he said. There is a difference between "hearing", "listening", "processing", and actually "complying". Its really easy for any of those steps to get sidetracked, especially when a person (big or little) is distracted. So expecting a 4 YO to do something 100% of the time that I suspect you don't even really do 100% of the time seems a bit overboard, YK?

I've found that the following things will help a child actually hear/listen/process/comply with requests:
* Get child's attention first (tap on shoulder, kneel down, whatever). If he isn't looking you in the eye, you don't have his attention.
* Short but polite
* Age-appropriate reason
* Positive action requested ("Come inside because its wet" rather than "Don't play with the truck")
* Minimize number of requests/day AKA save it for the important stuff. If I'm always nagging about stuff, they are going to tune me out (DH or kids). I try to think before I make a request "Is this really necessary?" For your example, is it really awful for him to play in the rain with the truck? What's the worst that will happen -- you'll need a towel when he comes in. But since he's already at least a little wet already, is that so awful? Assuming, of course, that there aren't special medical issues or something, that you could stay dry and still supervise, and that you weren't headed out somewhere but rather coming home. I call this my campaign against reflexive parenting. Just because my mother wouldn't have let me do it doesn't mean I shouldn't let my kid do the same, YK?
* One codeword that always needs to be responded to for emergencies only. For us, this is "FREEZE" in full "mommy voice". The kids knew, from about age 2, that this means completely stop in your tracks something is really wrong and I need you to do this to be safe. I taught this sort of as a game like "red light/green light". Its never failed me because I only use it when I really, really need to.

[Hokulele]

I think your DS sounds totally normal for his age. I'd be frustrated with the teacher, shouldn't she be used to this!?!?! I can understand your DH saying he should be old enough to listen, because it is frustrating living with a little person who only reacts to what you say sometimes. But I think DS is normal.

... and I'm enjoying reading all these posts. It will help me with my little non-listener!!

[MammaV]

My DD was a non-listener when she was that age. She had a terrible time following directions. However, she loved lists and charts with stickers. I harnessed her love of charts and she got stickers every time she listened and acknowledged me on her own. It was a fun game for her to get stickers. We set a goal of 50 stickers for a special treat. I think I did this two or three times and then the habit was formed. I didn't need to use any punishments or such. Treats could be making playdough with kool aid and picking out the kool aid colors from the grocery store or baking a special batch of cup cakes with sprinkles. Whatever is a motivator.

[JayJay]

With my DSS, four was an interesting age. He didn't listen a lot then either! He's now 6 and listening more or less a LOT better. For him, I do believe it was an unwillingness to let go of the baby stage. He was the youngest, and suddenly he was receiving schooling and didn't really know how to cope, when all he wanted to do was play...

Now, he's going into 1st grade (much as I'd love to home school, we're not in a position to do so right now - maybe next year ) and he turned to me this morning and said "I don't really like school. I think I'm going to like college much better."

Growing up is sometimes hard. Now that we have another one on the way, his status as baby of the family (which was briefly taken by Josie before she died) is going to disappear ad he's going to be a big brother. He's going to go through stages of wishing he could be tiny again before he accepts that to grow older and bigger is not so bad I wonder if your DS is going through something along the same lines?

*HUGE hugs* mama It WILL get better! XXXXX