Appropriate consequence for taking Daddy's dessert? - Page 5

[lucysmom]

Haven't read the whole thread, but my reaction is different than those who chalk up the initial cookie-eating by your son to impulse control, etc. I would trace the whole chain of events to his dad's self-centered reaction to your son offering him the cookie. You relate that the cookie at issue didn't belong to anyone at first. It only became "daddy's cookie" because your son offered it to his dad. I'd bet it was because he could tell his dad was not feeling good & he was trying to help. Then his dad responded completely inadequately (said "okay" and went back to sleep, perhaps conveying resentment for being awakened, as you say).

Poor kid. No wonder he came & shared the cookie with you & ate some himself. His dad was behaving like a self-centered jerk. Sorry to be so blunt. Even when as a parent you are feeling like crap, you still have to notice when your child is trying to be nice to you, and you don't just ignore it or worse, act peeved that they interrupted your beauty sleep.

Then the storming out of the restaurant & telling the kid he can't be around the child because of the cookie trangression earlier in the day?? Are you kidding me?? Who is the child here, for goodness' sake? The hurt done to the kid in those two episodes could be pretty profound. He is trying to express love for his dad, is rejected, behaves rationally in the face of that (eating the cookie himself & sharing with you), recovers, then has to be subjected to a performance in front of other people about how he did a terrible, terrible thing to his father, so terrible his dad cannot stand to be in his presence? Wow.

No wonder he ate a bite of the darn cupcake a week later.

This is NOT about dessert. It is NOT about your son being hungry. This is NOT about your child's behavior. This is about your partner hurting your son. I would get ready for a lot worse behavior from your kid if this sort of thing continues.

Again, I'm sorry to be so blunt, but this story is more jaw-dropping than it sounds like you think it is from your account.

Hugs. I'm sorry you are contending with this. Please don't assign yourself the role of making up for your partner's deficiencies ... this is not something you can fix.

[Britishmum]

Oh my gosh. My reaction to the cookie would have been, "Oh, you monkey! That was Daddy's cookie!" Then we'd have probably had a giggle together, and that would have been that.

As for the carrot cake, cupcake and whatever other treats, heck........what a lot of stress over dessert. I can't imagine giving dessert so much attention and energy!

A 4 yo is going to find it hard to resist a cookie. He hasn't learned to control his impulses yet. His father obviously got stuck at that point of development too, and needs some serious work in this area.

FWIW, my 4 yo would most definitely eat the cookie. Today we made cookies to share with some guests, and ds arrived at the door clutching two cookies, which he shoved into the guests' hands, then he ran back to the plate to grab two for himself. And none of us got bent out of shape about it - in fact, we all thought it was really cute!

[Brisen]

OK, EnviroBecca originally posted over a month ago. There have been plenty of posts listing her dh's faults and problems already, and she has taken it in stride quite well and discussed it calmly and coolly. I think we get the point. Do we really need more EnviroDaddy bashing here? This has all been said & discussed already.

[lucysmom]

To the extent that was directed at my post -- I led by noting that I had not read the whole thread (just the first 25% or so). No, I don't think it is a problem to do further commentary on how problematic her partner's behavior is. I lived with similar behavior from my then-partner for years, and I think it is quite serious. It is not "bashing" to say that this sounds like it reflects a pretty serious dysfunction and is not about her and is not about her son. The whole initial discussion is about her son's behavior and whether it is a big deal (see the thread title, in fact ... what consequence for eating daddy's dessert?). My point is that this man is hurting his kid emotionally and is willing to hurt his kid. If OP has come to terms with that & its consequences in a month, despite lots of views about how it was not OK for the kid to eat the cookie, etc., I'm very impressed.

EnviroBecca, my heart goes out to you. Good luck finding your way through.

[lucysmom]

Originally Posted by heartmama

Just a reminder to focus on solutions and ways to help solve this situation--it does not really help to focus primarily on negative statements toward the husband in this situation.

I'm sorry, I disagree. (I hope that's allowed.) Realizing the seriousness of the situation is a step toward finding a solution. Check in with those of us in the single parenting forum on that point. I'm not saying that is the only way forward, by any means, but negative reactions to this story are not unconstructive.

[heartmama]

The father's behavior has been discussed at length. It is important to recognize and correct our own behavior issues as parents. This thread is past that point of needing it pointed out to the OP that her husband was unreasonable. What makes sense in the beginning of a thread can become overly critical and destructive when repeated again and again after 5 pages of processing, reflection, and discussion with the OP.

Thus, posting just to make negative statements about her husband is not helpful at this point. If there are new perspectives or solutions to offer, by all means, please share them.

[KSLaura]

Awww... he is only 4! I'd let him have the sweets. If he shares, he shares. He will evnetually learn. OP, you are a good mama. He learns a lot by sharing with you. Before you know it, he will be sharing cookies and cupcakes with your grandchildren.

[EnviroBecca]

It's now been 5 and 6 weeks since these incidents. Since then we have not had anything even similar. We baked a birthday cake that we then had to finish in 5 days before leaving for a trip, and we all remained sane over it. Even the more general "I'm going to do exactly what you just told me not to do and then act cute and flippant about it." kind of thing has become much less frequent. So I think the KID's behavior was a phase that is now resolved.

I may never know exactly what made EnviroDaddy so unreasonable that first weekend, but I think the basic explanation is what I wrote before:

It boils down to self-centeredness about his "right" to be treated well particularly when he feels bad. He was so wrapped up in it that he had given no thought to the feelings of EnviroKid (struggling to stay awake and polite at adult dinner party; disappointed by food choices) or me (taken for granted as Parent On Duty all day long; embarrassed by partner's behavior at special event) until I pointed them out.

I am NOT making light of this problem, and I certainly am not taking lightly the effect of his EXTREMELY UNREASONABLE REACTION on my child. EnviroDaddy needs to work through his issues and control his temper.

However, tossing him aside and assuming I can do a better job as a single mom is not going to solve anything. I agree with Heartmama: I'm looking for positive ways to prevent and solve this type of problem, not for endless bashing of my beloved partner whom I've repeatedly said (particularly if you bothered to read the whole thread) was VERY, VERY WRONG.

SunshineJ wrote:

In the first incident a 4 yr old stated the cookie was dad's, then you shared same cookie with him.

I was not within hearing distance when he decided the cookie was Daddy's and announced that to Daddy. There had been no previous discussion of who would eat that cookie. There were 2 cookies for 3 people (because the hotel does not consider a 4-year-old to be a person who gets a cookie which is a whole separate issue!) so it was not obvious. I am not a mind-reader, cannot hear through walls and running water, and therefore CANNOT BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR "CONFUSING" MY CHILD ABOUT AN AGREEMENT HE MADE OUT OF MY HEARING. If anybody was genuinely confused about what was the "rule" about that cookie, it was me!

4evermom wrote:

It could very well be you are both helping Envirokid along the same road to the same destination. Since he doesn't have parents helping him gain comforts, he is forced to focus on getting them, himself. It's hard to focus on generosity from a place of limits. With two cookies and three people, there is an inflated value to that cookie. In my limited experience, it is MUCH easier for children to learn and develop generosity from a place of plenty. If things are limited as much as they sound in your household, the child is forced to focus on how to get enough to satisfy himself. There isn't much chance for him to focus on sharing.

So, what would you do? Let him eat all the sweets all the time whenever he wants?

Lucy's Mom wrote:

I would trace the whole chain of events to his dad's self-centered reaction to your son offering him the cookie. You relate that the cookie at issue didn't belong to anyone at first. It only became "daddy's cookie" because your son offered it to his dad. I'd bet it was because he could tell his dad was not feeling good & he was trying to help. Then his dad responded completely inadequately (said "okay" and went back to sleep, perhaps conveying resentment for being awakened, as you say).

Yes, exactly! I think our biggest mistake was not acknowledging the generous impulse that led him to tell Daddy that one whole cookie was for him! It's entirely possible that he was hoping to help Daddy feel better and then thought this strategy wasn't working.

Britishmum wrote:

My reaction to the cookie would have been, "Oh, you monkey! That was Daddy's cookie!" Then we'd have probably had a giggle together, and that would have been that.

Is there any advantage to laughing about it? What message are you trying to convey?

[Brisen]

lucysmom -- I just happened to post right after you, I wasn't trying to single you out.

I wasn't trying to minimize the seriousness of the situation, but based on the OP's posts, she gets it, and I agree with heartmama that lots of posters saying "Wow, he's immature and was out of line" stops being helpful when it goes on for pages.

[1littlebit]

honestly? sometimes people just have crappy weeks... maybe it was just one of those things..esp. since you said you haven't had anything similar happen since then. Maybe he was just having a crappy week or he was tired or any number of little things that all aligned in the right way to create a crappy situation.

either way it sounds like things are better and thats great. sometimes things like this are really tough in the moment but get much better when you get some distance. maybe dh learned something from it.. and it sounds like you have which is great.

i agree about the impulse to offer daddy the whole cookie not being a good thing but i don't think you will be able to always be able to foresee these things so i wouldn't beat yourself up about it we all do our best but no matter how hard we try we can't catch everything yk?

your said something earlier that i had a question about. you asked why someone would laugh about it and what message they would be trying to convey. i agreed with the PP when i first read this... it wouldn't have been a big deal to me ... as long as it was only between us. if the cupcake had belonged to an aunt, friend, cousin etc i would have had more of an issue with it. but now after reading what you asked i am wondering what you are worried about by not addressing it. i wonder if not addressing little things like this will lead to things that i would consider a problem.. like eating other peoples food without asking for ignoring me when i ask him not to eat something when he gets a bit older. i am wondering if by not thinking it is a big deal i would be giving him the impression that it is ok to take other peoples food without asking or something.

[Snugglebugmom]

Originally Posted by heartmama

How to say this gently:

The degree of adult emotion, energy, and attention given to this issue is far and away the most urgent problem. I think it is extremely unhealthy for a small child to be exposed to this level of "drama" for being childish in the first instance and perhaps due to the way his father responded, tempted to deliberately engage in a power struggle in the second instance.

I would drop the entire issue, set up definite occassions when he can have treats, and put away foods he cannot have in a place where he cannot find them.

You are going to foster a very unhealthy emotionally attachment to sweets if this keeps up. One of my hard and fast rules with parenting is to never give attention to an issue you don't want to be a 'big deal' in the mind of a small child. Children are so easily influenced by parental emotions. If his father keeps making such a HUGE deal out of this, your child will naturally conclude that sweets are HUGE deal.

Well put!
Don't put a hungry child in a position where he can see a snack he loves but cannot eat it. Don't eat sweets in front of him and tell him he cannot have one because he needs to finish his burrito. A four year old has no impulse control to speak of, he should not be put in a position like that. If he's not allowed to have it, then keep it out of his sight.
And a grown man that carries a grudge against a four year old... That would worry me. Seriously.

[GuildJenn]

This reminds me so much of the marshmallow experiment.

http://www.ted.com/talks/joachim_de_...allow_yet.html