nephew circ complication :(

[o'smom]

I sent my pregnant sister links to articles and websites, as well as just generally presented a case for not circumcising, should she have a boy, and related how grateful I was to have had the information to make an informed decision when I had my son.

Well, she read it and they decided to go ahead and circ their 3 day old boy anyway yesterday. She broke down crying telling me how much she regretted it. He had 2 frenulums (?) so the dr. told her that he had to take 1/4 inch more skin off than usual. The poor baby bled so much they had to cauterize the wound. My sister said he looks awful and she feels so much guilt about what she put him through. I feel so bad for her and certainly didn't want her to become anti-circ through a hard learned lesson. Is there anything she should do or be careful of in terms of his healing - aside from watching for infection? They've been putting bacitracin (?) on the wound and have been told that it may take about 2 months for it to look "normal".

[perspective]

frenulum- is a structure that connects the foreskin to the penis head. We have multiple in frenulum's on our body. Lift your tongue, and touch the top of your mouth. While doing so, touch the underside of your tongue, feel that tendon? Thats a frenulum that connects the tongue to the bottom of your mouth.

Obviously, its a natural structure, and having one is not a problem. (although doctors who circumcise often think it is).

2 frenulums? That does not sound right. Either way, this seems like an avoidable situation, even from a pro-circ stand point.

[o'smom]

I do know that the frenulum is a natural part of the penis -- the (?) was because I wasn't sure if I was spelling it correctly. And the dr. said it was very unusual to have 2, but that's what the little guy was born with and that is what caused the complication.

[perspective]

Originally Posted by o'smom

I do know that the frenulum is a natural part of the penis -- the (?) was because I wasn't sure if I was spelling it correctly. And the dr. said it was very unusual to have 2, but that's what the little guy was born with and that is what caused the complication.

sorry about that. But I guess the question is, if he has to frenulums, what is the problem with that? How did the doctor even discover that he had two?

[Cheshire]

I'm so sorry for your nephew (and his family even though they chose to put him through the surgery - as you say, what a terrible way to learn about complications).

The only thing I would suggest would be to find an intact friendly urologist to help keep an eye on his healing. If the UAV doc felt the need to remove so much extra skin no telling what type of long lasting damage that may have caused. They might need to consider some type of reconstructive surgery to ensure that he has adequate skin coverage for his erections so they aren't tight or painful as a baby and as he grows up.

But I guess the question is, if he has to frenulums, what is the problem with that? How did the doctor even discover that he had two?

I think she meant that the doc said when he was doing the circ and discovered the second frenulum he had to remove more skin causing the excess bleeding that led to the cauterization of the wound.

Tell your sister, in as loving a way as you can, that she and DH need to deal with the decision they made and now do more research on how to protect him and fix this as best as it can be fixed. It's going to be hard to not say "I told you so" but she was brave enough to explain to you what had happened and asked for your advice.

Hugs to you all. Healing vibes for the little one.

[o'smom]

They discovered it during one of the exams they do on the baby at the hospital, and at first one of the nurses said something like "I don't know if the dr. is going to be able to circumcise him right now because of this". I don't know all the details, because honestly, I don't think my sister knows. She said they told her the second frenulum was higher up on the penis. If the dr. had told her that he needed to take an extra 1/4 inch off, she would have said no to the whole thing, but he told her after he had done it.

Aside from needing to do the big-sister scream of "I told you not to do that!!" somewhere, since I can't do it to her, I was wondering if there's anything she should be careful of in terms of his healing. She's so worried that something horrible is going to result from this -- infection, being deformed, etc.

[o'smom]

Thank you for your kind words and advice, Cheshire

[Yulia_R]

The doctor did NOT have to take any extra; most doctors do NOT remove frenulum during circ AT ALL. So, I would seriously consider taking legal actions. The kid will most likely have some of the following problems in the future (tight or painful erections, skin splits, hairy shaft, etc). I would definitely bring restoration to his attention when he is a teen.

Poor baby...it is so hard for me to feel sorry for his parents. Unlike so many others, they had the luxury of KNOWING BETTER and they did this horrible thing to their sweet defenseless baby anyway ...

[tutucrazy]

Oh no! How awful. That baby should have been left alone. Why on earth would they take MORE skin???

If they had left him alone and his frenulum had caused a problem for him in adulthood b/c it was too tight all they would have had to do is a frenuloplasty which lengthens the attachment with a small incision. They do these on men with this condition. Similar to the way they correct a tongue tie. Most likely it would not have caused any problems though.

I think your sister needs to consider some legal action. There is a wonderful lawyer that just represented another baby boy who was a victim of a botched circumcision. I know that legal action can not repair the damage but it can bring some justice to this issue and help expose the truth about circ.

That poor baby! I'm so sorry for him. Anytime you burn something you will create a good amount of scar tissue. This will no doubt have a very significant impact on his sex organ.

[Treece]

I second the legal action. There is a link to arclaw(?) in the resources sticky.

[A&A]

Originally Posted by Treece

I second the legal action. There is a link to arclaw(?) in the resources sticky.

it's www.arclaw.org (attorneys for the rights of the child)

[Nandi]

According to the studies I've read, the frenulum is the most sensitive area of the foreskin.
It sounds like this baby has been set up for significant dysfunction in the future.
I second the legal action. If doctors need to think twice about being sued for this issue, maybe they will think twice about doing these unneccesary surgeries.

[Bm31]

Originally Posted by o'smom

I do know that the frenulum is a natural part of the penis -- the (?) was because I wasn't sure if I was spelling it correctly. And the dr. said it was very unusual to have 2, but that's what the little guy was born with and that is what caused the complication.

Maybe it's just me since I don't trust any doctor that performs circ's too much, but it sounds fishy to me. Like he's using the supposed frenulum abnormality as an excuse after performing an "overzealous" (botched) circ. If he really saw some kind of abnromality there he shouldn't have proceeded with the circ without another serious consultation with the parents. Either way, the doctor was very negligent (and money hungry!). :

I feel really bad for your nephew. All my best to him.

[Quirky]

I don't see how there's grounds for a suit as the parents did consent, and were informed.

I'm sorry for the baby but I think the best course of action is leaving everything be to heal as best it can.

And unfortunately I do think most circs cut the frenulum. I don't think docs try to preserve it as a general rule. I don't think most are aware how sensitive it is. My dh's is totally gone.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by Quirky

I don't see how there's grounds for a suit as the parents did consent, and were informed.

It doesn't sound as though they were informed that it was a non-standard situation, though. If some kind of complication is discovered pre-surgery, wouldn't informed consent laws require that the ramifications of dealing with that be discussed? I'd think that would apply to any surgery.

OP: I'm so sorry for your nephew...and yes, for your sister, too. When something is as common and accepted as circ, it's just too easy for a lot of people to emotionally dismiss any risks that may be involved...until they end up on the wrong side of the risks.

[o'smom]

They were informed that there could be a complication because of the 2nd frenulum before the circ. A first dr. (and her midwife) said they would probably need to see a pediatric urologist, but then the 2nd dr. (who was to be performing the circ) said he'd examine the baby and let her know what he thought. Well, he just went ahead and did it, and then came into the room and told her what happened. She said had he told her that he'd be taking an extra 1/4 inch of skin, she would have told him not to do the circ at all. So, I do think he should have discussed what he was going to do before he did it, especially because the 2nd frenulum is something they new about before he even started -- it's not like he had already started cutting and then discovered it and had to continue.

Thanks for the legal suggestions - I'll definitely talk with my sister about it. And thank you for the sympathy for my nephew, and even my sister. As much as I'm angry about what she did, I know she feels horrible. The baby suffered and will continue to, but guilt and regret will be hers for some time. She wishes she could go back in time and have another chance. And hopefully, she'll tell her story and maybe spare some other babies this horror.

[glongley]

Originally Posted by o'smom

They were informed that there could be a complication because of the 2nd frenulum before the circ. ... She said had he told her that he'd be taking an extra 1/4 inch of skin, she would have told him not to do the circ at all. So, I do think he should have discussed what he was going to do before he did it, especially because the 2nd frenulum is something they new about before he even started -- it's not like he had already started cutting and then discovered it and had to continue.

I'm having a little trouble understanding this second frenulum business. Not even sure how this would form embryologically, since the frenulum forms along the midline as the two sides of the phallus infold to enclose the urethra. But the other thing I don't understand is because the frenulum is on the INSIDE of the foreskin, and is not visible or in any way indicated from the outside. So how would they have known this BEFORE they started the surgery, i.e. you would have had to separate the foreskin from the glans and look inside to even see this. Not questioning your story, just don't quite get it ...

I would think that any kind of penile abnormality would be a contraindication for circumcision until the situation can be evaluated by a urologist. What he did probably falls outside of standard medical practice, which could affect the legal judgment on it.

Gillian

[tutucrazy]

Originally Posted by glongley

I'm having a little trouble understanding this second frenulum business. Not even sure how this would form embryologically, since the frenulum forms along the midline as the two sides of the phallus infold to enclose the urethra. But the other thing I don't understand is because the frenulum is on the INSIDE of the foreskin, and is not visible or in any way indicated from the outside. So how would they have known this BEFORE they started the surgery, i.e. you would have had to separate the foreskin from the glans and look inside to even see this. Not questioning your story, just don't quite get it ...

I would think that any kind of penile abnormality would be a contraindication for circumcision until the situation can be evaluated by a urologist. What he did probably falls outside of standard medical practice, which could affect the legal judgment on it.

Gillian

I agree with Gillian. There is something fishy with what the told your Sister. They should have known not to operate on his penis.

[Frootloop]

Originally Posted by Bm31

Maybe it's just me since I don't trust any doctor that performs circ's too much, but it sounds fishy to me. Like he's using the supposed frenulum abnormality as an excuse after performing an "overzealous" (botched) circ. If he really saw some kind of abnromality there he shouldn't have proceeded with the circ without another serious consultation with the parents. Either way, the doctor was very negligent (and money hungry!). :

I feel really bad for your nephew. All my best to him.

*Bolding mine*

That was my first thought, as well. The doctor botched it and then had to make something up.

That poor baby

[Yulia_R]

I agree with Gillian. There is no way to know unless they rip overything apart.