help! I don't like my 4.5 year old right now :(

[Liam's Mum]

OK I do like him, I love him like crazy, he's an amazing, sweet, smart, funny, affectionate, interesting, extremely attached, normally cooperative, polite, mature for his age kid. But lately...I don't know what has gotten in to him! He's openly defiant (more than his usual independent streak), mean, won't listen, is rude...

I think a lot of it is stuff he's picked up from kids at school, but he's got free will, he can choose not to act like his classmates, right? But I swear every other sentence out of his mouth is "it's not fair!" or "you're not my friend anymore!" -- though sometimes as bad as "I'm going to kill you" or "I'm going to break your face" or "I hate you". He has never been aggressive or violent, and so far that hasn't changed, but what's next? I realize all of this is his way of saying "I'm angry", but he's known how to verbalize anger and frustration for a long time now. And angry about what? He seems to look for things, even waking up in a bad mood. And we do NOT model this behaviour, we don't say hate or kill or speak rudely or disrespectfully to others.

I'm at a loss for how to deal with this -- we practice GD, we don't "punish", but for the most part, it's been easy since he's a good kid, would listen to the reasons "why" we don't do this or that, and complied for the most part. Some natural or logical consequences now or then, and it's done. But I'm getting so angry with him lately, yelling , all I can think of is, how can I "make" him do what I want? What can I "do" to him to make him behave? And when I'm angry, he's just smirking, shows absolutely no remorse for anything. The "natural consequence" of mommy is angry and in no mood to play seems to have no affect. At the same time, I feel like if I do nothing, I'm sending the message that it's OK for him to speak to people as he has been, and it's NOT OK.

Sorry if this is rambling and doesn't make much sense...Help! I want my boy back!

I should add, for the most part, he's still being the wonderful, loving big brother he has always been -- my boys adore each other. He is finding sharing more challenging lately, and is apt to say "you're being mean" to his 19 mos old brother when he takes a toy or does anything he doesn't like (accidentally bumping into him...) He always been a sensitive kid, but lately, oy!

[Surfacing]

Mama, I'm subbing to this thread. I can soooo relate, even down to ridiculous things like "I want to kill myself"!!! So challenging. So perplexing. I have spoken with the doctor who thinks she's just being a drama queen, says not to focus on it and keep things light and moving, "Oh well when you are ready to play we'll be over here..." The challenge here is that I too have a short fuse at times.

The (ahem) parenting books say to remain calm, consistent, help the child calm down and gain control. Hah. What do they recommend when my daughter shouts, "NO! I DON'T WANT TO TAKE A DEEP BREATH! I DON'T WANT TO CALM DOWN!" You can't *MAKE* them calm down. Sigh.

So tough. Hope somebody has some good suggestions. You're not alone.

Though I'm sure this is just a developmental stage and it will pass. Right? Right??

[koalove]

i could have written your post word for word. perhaps 4.5 is a time of turbulence? i also think mine picks things up at school, although his teacher says hes a perfect angel there. so, sorry no advice, just hugs and sympathy. i keep telling myself that "this will pass, this isnt forever, my sweet boy WILL come back, and i am his mom and i have to be patient."

[Liam's Mum]

Yeah, he has actually told me "I don't act like this at school", which I knew, and thank goodness for that.

Scanning through some other threads makes me think I have to re-read Hold On to Your Kids, I seem to recall something about 2 and 5 year olds and counterwill...

Making it a goal to try to remain calm tomorrow. Even when he tells me he suddenly "hates" whatever I've made for dinner, and how it's "yucky" (he was a great eater, and now drops items off his "like" list daily -- I know better than to get into meal time battles, but...)

[momma_unlimited]

The "natural consequence" of mommy is angry and in no mood to play seems to have no affect. At the same time, I feel like if I do nothing, I'm sending the message that it's OK for him to speak to people as he has been, and it's NOT OK.

I'm trying to look at it as 1) staying calm and 2) addressing why I didn't like the choice of words and 3) providing a choice of words that would be family acceptable are, in fact "doing something".

I tried this once in the Salvation Army, my son said something very rude to me, and of course other people were listening in (at the registers). I didn't want to look like a fool and get all angry, but I didn't want to look like a fool and ignore it. So I said, "please don't speak to me that way, it's not polite to contradict me, you may say "I would prefer to do such and such instead". Then he said "I would prefer to do such and such instead".

The lady at the counter told me I was such a great mother and although I can't make a random cashier's approval my guide to mothering, I realized that if this is what sounds nice in public, this is probably what sounds nice in the home.... so I'm going with it. I try to think "how would I react if I were in public?" because this usually tends to be the respectful way... and just thinking of the scenario reminds me I *can* control my temper.

Edit: After the novelty wears off, he doesn't always choose to use the words I modeled, but I can't control him right? I hope that by doing the right thing he'll get it over time. After all, it took him as a toddler up to two years to learn a lot of basic things and I was patient then... So I guess if he's still this rude in two years I'll have to rethink it.

[mama_mojo]

During the year between 4 and 5, there is a huge testosterone surge for boys. Not sure about girls. This triggers more aggressive behavior. They need help being guided to less aggressive ways to express their very strong emotions. The Ames and Ilg, Your 4 Year Old, is pretty helpful for at least seeing the behaviors in a developmental scope, and moving forward accordingly.

What I did- I tried to provide even more outside time (This is working with my current 4 yo, who is a girl). I let their outbursts roll off, like the time DD1 said my love was cruel and ugly. I try really hard to tap into my humor, not to laugh at them, but to find a situation funny and therefore fixable before it escalates. I try to be extremely empathetic. It's not that I allow them to do mean things with no response, but I react completely differently when my self talk goes, "Wow, she's tired. Being 4 looks like hard work. Her sister sure has been rough on her in the last hour. I bet her knee still hurts from that fall." Also, sometimes, if I start the "punishment" by sitting quietly together, reading, cuddling, whatever, I don't need any follow through beyond a quick, "We don't talk that way to each other. It hurts." And, if it's a fit, I just wait. To not get angry or caught up in the storm, I usually have to leave the room.

I like to take my sail out of their wind, and that's why I leave the room. I know some people can calmly sit and be present, but I decided since I am more likely to get caught up, it's better to leave.

And, I remind myself that none of this is personal. My older two are 9 and 7, and they seem to have no memory of the tumult when they were each 4. They do not currently hate me or find my love cruel.

[bendingbirch]

I have a 4 and a half year old, and there are some things that really helped me with my oldest when she was four and a half, and they are things I know will help with our third! LOL
Here are some random thoughts:
1. A four year old in school uses A LOT of energy "holding it together" in school, and often comes home with a lot of pent-up energy, frustration, general craziness. Planning a rhythm for these times to really get outside helps tremendously.
2. Four and a half is an "out of bound" age of disequilibrium according to all traditonal childhood development resources - in other words, EXPECT crazy words, aggression, the whole "not listening" well, noise, etc.... If you expect it and have a plan, things go much better.
3. I know you said in your post your child has free will, but the truth is that up to age 7 (and I have an almost 8 year old, so I can attest it continues to some extent) that IMITATION,more than words, prevail. It is natural he is going to imitate and try out these behaviors at home that he sees other kids doing.....Hence going back to outside and the physical end of it. A four year old has usually has the wiggles, a short attention span and a lot of physicality.
4. That being said, setting the boundaries calmly and following through with what he can and can't do is important, and being calm about it is so important. That is our own inner work as parents to work on!
5. Personally, in our family, we have found during times of disequilibrium and such, using way LESS words, less choices and more just singing, walking calmly next to the child and helping them to stop what they are doing really helps.
6. I personally like time-in more than time-out. I think from an adult perspective we think time-out should be a time when they sit down and "think about what they have done" but in my experience, many four year olds don't really have that reflective, empathetic capacity well-developed yet. If I need a time-out, that is another thing! I can go and gather myself together LOL! But time-in where we all sit down together,without a whole bunch of words really does help us as a family. We might just breathe, or read or color, and then I might say, "You know, I would like it if you drew a picture of blue flowers in a vase" (If the child smashed blue flowers to pieces, for example). Something to FIX it. Not a whole guilt trip, the child knows what he or she did, but after everyone is calm they really need to make it right.

Maybe these posts on my blog will help you:
http://theparentingpassageway.com/20...four-year-old/ (If you scroll down towards the bottom there is a list of things regarding gentle discipline)


and developmental characteristics of the four year old: http://theparentingpassageway.com/20...four-year-old/


Please do take what resonates and works for you, I am just sharing a few things that have worked well for us.....

[Liam's Mum]

Thank you everyone! Phew, so nice to know I'm not alone, and there is a lot of great advice here (and some reminders of stuff I know but haven't been doing so well at lately!) I definitely talk way too much (tough not to when the kid has an answer and argument for EVERYTHING, if I stop explaining why we don't do this or that, he'll just keep repeating himself over and over until I crack). We've never done time-outs, but lately I've given him the choice to go up to his room and come back when he's ready to eat/speak nicely/etc. mainly because I am afraid I'm going to start yelling.

A friend recently said to me, you know his character is good, once he's through this he'll be his usual self, and I know this to be true, he's really a loving, thoughtful little person, and I probably expect too much because he has always been so mature for his age. He has mostly been associating with older girls at school because they are less agressive -- the boys his age he mostly avoids, except one he's become good friends with, in part because they were/are the calmest of the boys in the class! But, lately the two of them together have been WILD, so I guess they are just going through this stage together and egging each other on.

Another thing that is frustrating is my 19 month old does eveything his brother does, that's mainly why we don't let him, say, scale the furniture -- because his brother immediately tries it and gets hurt. The first thing DS2 said when I got home the other day was "coo-coo face" -- hmm, wonder where he heard that? :

Anyway, thanks so much for the responses, and for any others that are posted.