My ped is a "repeat offender" when it comes to retracting - ARG!

[earthmama4]

My wonderful AP-friendly ped will not stop retracting our son's foreskin. I first posted about our first experience here http://www.mothering.com/discussions...050&highlight=

That was at two months. At four months, I told him what I had read and he still did it to show me how it doesn't hurt him and needs to be done to clean him. ARG!!! And I was really mad that I let him do it. But I thought, well maybe I am not being clear that I don't want him to rather than I don't understand it. Again it was "gentle" and didn't seem to hurt him, but it scares me.

So we went to the six month visit this week and had a nice chat and before my son's diaper even came off, I stated clearly, "I am not comfortable with my son's foreskin being retracted at all. Everything I have read says to just leave it alone and the the only person who should retract it at all is the child himself." Phew. Message given, I stood up to the doctor, all will be well, right?

So...he gets to that part of the exam and proceeds to again SHOW ME HOW TO GENTLY RETRACT TO CLEAN THE TIP!!!!! Both me and DH cried out "DON'T" to which he responded, "Its ok. This won't hurt him." and proceeds to explain how the foreskin will naturally become looser over time, etc... He apparently thinks he knows best and will not listen to us on this.

I reeeaaally didn't want to have to find a new ped. I love how BF friendly he is and I really think he is a good doc overall, but I can't take one who doesn't listen to me. I am the mother! Even if he thinks his way is best, he should not assert that on my child if I am not ok with it. I am confident he didn't hurt or damage DS this time but I just think it is unforgiveable to not respect a mothers wishes to not manipulate her child's genitals.

This is our third doctor for this baby. The first (my long-term ped for my older boys) was not ok with our new decision to not vax this child. Our next doctor was supposed to be a blend of traditional and alternative medicine, but ended up being somewhat of an alarmist, ordering a bunch of blood tests because he thought my son looked "pale" even though I didn't (blood work was normal BTW). And now ped number three who is lovely in every way but one.

WBV are free for us (we are double covered) but I feel like I am paying in other ways. Its such a battle - if its not one thing its another! I think I would be better off just buying a baby scale and tape measure and monitoring growth at home. I know how to check developmental milestones - I am certified to do screenings for children birth to five through my job. There are things I could miss though, like heart murmurs or hip clicks or other things....I'll have to think it over. Just needed to vent I guess.

[MayBaby2007]

Sorry, mama. That sounds really upsetting. I don't have a boy so I have no idea about the whole intact stuff...

Just wanted to say though, since this doc is okay and you like him aside from the fact he keeps retracting your son, leave his diaper on. Diaper stays on. Period. He can't retract if he can't touch your son. I did this with dd when I took her to WBV (she hasn't been in over a year now). There's something degrading about stripping a child (a baby...but still a child) down naked for the doctor, that I object to.

And what (please, tell me what) a doctor could see in 3 seconds (every 3 months) that the parents aren't going to see the 20 times/day they change the diaper? If there is a rash or a bump or a question of uncertainty about anything, I think parents would find it before the doctor. That's just me though.

I quit taking dd to WBV. I couldn't understand the point. They weigh, measure, listen to chest and look in eyes, ears, nose throat...and a quick diaper check. And they give you the thumbs up approval that your kid is doing ok? (Then slap you or your insurance with a $100 bill!). Any fool could do that. (Sorry. I have a strong dislike for doctors ).

GL with sorting everything out.

[Cheshire]

Time to find a new ped. Part of not vaxing and keeping an intact penis safe from prying hands means sometimes searching for a loooonnngg time to find a good doc. If he won't listen to you about something so simple, something that you've explicitly stated twice what happens when something big comes up - what will he do against your wishes. This is a big flag.

I quit taking dd to WBV. I couldn't understand the point. They weigh, measure, listen to chest and look in eyes, ears, nose throat...and a quick diaper check.

A friend's infant son had an issue with his brain. The parents hadn't noticed but at a WBV the doc did notice that his head wasn't forming just right (looking at the baby I couldn't see it). It wasn't that it was larger but it was a little lopsided. When measuring his head the doc did notice and sent them to a neurologist right away. The baby ended up needing a shunt and will have it for the rest of his life. If the doc hadn't caught it when he did it would have probably led to seizures before the parents knew anything was wrong. Though this is a rare occurrence it did save him. And, let me say, I do not like this doc (we interviewed him as a possible ped for our son and he was so pro-vax and pro-circ we chose not to use him).

I think for the most part WBV can be a waste of time but I'll put up with it just in case I do miss something because I do see my baby so much that I might miss the trees for the forest, yk.

[BlessedMommy2006]

Your doctor is in the wrong! I would print out the AAP guidelines on retraction and make sure that a complaint gets into his office and then switch peds.

If he's doing it to your son, he's doing it to others.

[A&A]

Get a new doctor. Sorry. This one won't listen to you.

[alegna]

Get a new dr. If that's not possible, don't take diapers off at visits.

-Angela

[Marnica]

I may have this problem as well. We switched peds for DS 9mo visit to a doc who is ok with us not vaxing. She also went o retract and I yelled "NO", but it was a bit too late. At the 12 month visit coming up in 2 weeks I plan on stating up front that I do not want her to touch his penis at all. I paln on printing out the AAp guidelines and giving them to her. I will be right there and there is no way I am going to let her touch him there. I may just refuse to remove the diaper. ill have to see how it goes.

The fact that you have done this and he still doesn't listen is a big problem. Id find another doc or do as pp's have siad and refuse to remove the diaper.

[JElaineB]

I would get a new doctor as this one does not listen to you. My son's penis has never been touched by a doctor during an exam and it is not necessary to do so.

[Fyrestorm]

Originally Posted by alegna

Get a new dr. If that's not possible, don't take diapers off at visits.

-Angela

ITA! There is no reason that the doc even needs to see it, let alone touch it. (unless you have a specific issue - even in that case I wouldn't trust this doc to know what to look for since he seems intact clueless).

Leave the diaper on!

[purplestraws]

I agree with leaving the diaper on.

If you like the doctor and don't want to switch...just leave your son's diaper on during the exam.

My son went to WBVs until around 6 months when the doctor said we could stop coming since we weren't vaccinating. However, the ONLY time the doctor ever checked his in his diaper was his very first appointment at 2 weeks. Since then he just asks if we have any concerns about our son's genitals. Even the time we went in for a suspected UTI he didn't want to check in his diaper.

I don't understand why all these doctors are so obsessed with examining little boys' penises? Do they feel the need to closely examine little girls' vaginas like that? Maybe they do...I don't know. I just find it strange.

[Drummer's Wife]

yeah, find a new doc or down allow nude baby checks.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

I can understand not wanting to find a new Dr. It is perfectly fine for you to say no to the under diaper check. Just explain that since you cannot trust him to respect your wishes on the no retraction then he is not allowed to touch anything in that area.

You are the parent and you are in charge of what is done or not done to your ds.

[earthmama4]

Thanks for the support and validation. I am going to look for a new doctor rather than have confrontations every visit. A patient/doctor relationship is built on trust - especially when it comes to a child - and he violated that. If I continued to see him I'd always feel on the defensive. Its not worth the stress to me. I'm on the fence re WBV...I guess I need a little time to think things over.

[perspective]

Originally Posted by earthmama4

My wonderful AP-friendly ped will not stop retracting our son's foreskin. I first posted about our first experience here http://www.mothering.com/discussions...050&highlight=

That was at two months. At four months, I told him what I had read and he still did it to show me how it doesn't hurt him and needs to be done to clean him. ARG!!! And I was really mad that I let him do it. But I thought, well maybe I am not being clear that I don't want him to rather than I don't understand it. Again it was "gentle" and didn't seem to hurt him, but it scares me.

So we went to the six month visit this week and had a nice chat and before my son's diaper even came off, I stated clearly, "I am not comfortable with my son's foreskin being retracted at all. Everything I have read says to just leave it alone and the the only person who should retract it at all is the child himself." Phew. Message given, I stood up to the doctor, all will be well, right?

So...he gets to that part of the exam and proceeds to again SHOW ME HOW TO GENTLY RETRACT TO CLEAN THE TIP!!!!! Both me and DH cried out "DON'T" to which he responded, "Its ok. This won't hurt him." and proceeds to explain how the foreskin will naturally become looser over time, etc... He apparently thinks he knows best and will not listen to us on this.

I reeeaaally didn't want to have to find a new ped. I love how BF friendly he is and I really think he is a good doc overall, but I can't take one who doesn't listen to me. I am the mother! Even if he thinks his way is best, he should not assert that on my child if I am not ok with it. I am confident he didn't hurt or damage DS this time but I just think it is unforgiveable to not respect a mothers wishes to not manipulate her child's genitals.

This is our third doctor for this baby. The first (my long-term ped for my older boys) was not ok with our new decision to not vax this child. Our next doctor was supposed to be a blend of traditional and alternative medicine, but ended up being somewhat of an alarmist, ordering a bunch of blood tests because he thought my son looked "pale" even though I didn't (blood work was normal BTW). And now ped number three who is lovely in every way but one.

WBV are free for us (we are double covered) but I feel like I am paying in other ways. Its such a battle - if its not one thing its another! I think I would be better off just buying a baby scale and tape measure and monitoring growth at home. I know how to check developmental milestones - I am certified to do screenings for children birth to five through my job. There are things I could miss though, like heart murmurs or hip clicks or other things....I'll have to think it over. Just needed to vent I guess.

Honestly, I don't think it matters that he supports your decision to breast feed and not vax if he he is going to be ripping apart your sons genitals every couple months. Personally I think the latter is the most important in a doctor. He can say you should formula feed, and you can say "yeah, yeah" and throw out the formula on your way out of the office, but possible damage to his penis is much bigger.
Because even if your son is retractable, there is no NEED for him to retract. The only thing that could happen is the off chance your doctor has a dirty hand, and gives your son a UTI.

[hakeber]

My son has grown up in societies where being intact is the norm, and I can tell you the doctors we have visited have never touched hs penis. Not ever.

Get a new ped.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

When interviewing the new ped. ask him/her how they do genital exams on an intact boy make him/her explain in detail what they are looking for how they look for it and why. If you hear the words move the foreskin then you know you might have a problem.

Avoid using the word retraction because they often dont think about moving the foreskin back a little as retraction. Wording is very important on this kind of thing.

[PuppyFluffer]

Originally Posted by earthmama4

Thanks for the support and validation. I am going to look for a new doctor rather than have confrontations every visit. A patient/doctor relationship is built on trust - especially when it comes to a child - and he violated that. If I continued to see him I'd always feel on the defensive. Its not worth the stress to me. I'm on the fence re WBV...I guess I need a little time to think things over.

I applaud you for listening to yourself and honoring that you need to feel trust in a doctor.

I don't do well baby checks on any sort of regular basis but I do do them occasionally. Mostly because I am in a state that does not have a parental exemption for vaccination. I don't want to ever have to deal with non vaxing and have an accusation of "medical neglect" because we don't have regular established contact with a physician.

Might I suggest you find a family pratitioner. You might get a much more relaxed tone and care more suited to your style.

[kell]

I'm not sure I would have been able to restrain myself from physically pushing him against the wall. I don't know what I would do though, is it hard to find AP-friendly docs where you are? After going through 3 already I would be tempted to just stick with him as well...but also take action (not taking off the diaper like other have suggested). Good luck!!

[mamabadger]

If I were in the same situation, I would try to keep the doctor. Around here, it is not all that easy to find a nice, BF-friendly, flexible on vaccinations, pro-AP pediatrician.
If you want to discuss the issue with him, I think your original post puts it exactly right:

I reeeaaally didn't want to have to find a new ped. I love how BF friendly he is and I really think he is a good doc overall, but I can't take one who doesn't listen to me. I am the mother! Even if he thinks his way is best, he should not assert that on my child if I am not ok with it. I am confident he didn't hurt or damage DS this time but I just think it is unforgiveable to not respect a mothers wishes to not manipulate her child's genitals.

Telling him that, along with pointing out the AAP's stand on circ/retraction, should get through even the most determined case of selective hearing. If that does not work, like PPs have said, leave the diaper on throughout the exam, and watch him like a hawk.

[nerdymom]

uhm, am I the only one that thinks this is so far beyond acceptable that they would sue? WHAT YOUR SON HAS SUFFERED IS RIDICULOUS! You CLEARLY and REPEATEDLY instructed this doctor NOT to touch your son in a specific manner, and he blatantly disregarded that. I would file a formal complaint with the office, the AAP, anyone and everyone who would listen and I would consider filing charges. This man needs to be stopped.