Advice/Support

[azchickie]

I actually did not know what to call this thread.

I am not married nor a mother.

My family is completely pro-circumcision. They argue that it is necessary, prevents UTIs, cleaner, and easier because the boy won't remember it. I know all of these reasons are false. I also think that it's wrong for a child to be sexualized as an infant. I do not find the intact penis inherently better than a circumcised one, but I like that it is "undisturbed." But, I feel like when I do settle down and decide to have children, I will be pressured into it. I feel like if I choose not to circumcise, my family will look down on it. My stepmother (who had both my brothers circumcised), told me that it would have to be my husband's decision. I have actually figured out the only way they would accept my decision is to tell them that my husband is intact, even if he isn't. I guess it seems like a stupid thing to be worrying about now, but it is something I think about often. I've actually talked to guys who decided on their own to get circumcised when they got older, and their procedures were not as bad or dramatic as people make them out to be.

However, I was pleasantly surprised when I found this forum. I think most Americans are intelligent, but from the posts I've read---you guys have actually taken the time to research things and at the same time, make me feel better about my own thoughts.

I guess I just want to be at ease with this subject and my feelings about it. When my family talks about it, I don't say anything because they are not interested in the facts (not to mention I am very soft-spoken.) But it still makes my blood boil.

[ElliesMomma]

how can your family pressure you into doing it? just refuse to give consent to the procedure. sounds like the reason it's "no big deal" for older/full grown men is that they are given plenty of anestetic (sp), etc. *and* it's their choice.

i'm going to have a boy in september. my family won't pressure me to circumsize. however DH's family i think all did it. and he is circed. however the topic came up at our very first prenatal appointment: "if it's a boy this time, will you circumsize." i replied to the nurse, "i don't think so." and as i spoke i looked over at DH, who kind of looked at me, with a knowing smile(ish) and so i corrected myself, to say, "definitely not."

if somehow, someway he is to turn pro-circ at the last minute, that's my plan: simply refuse to give consent to it.

i will add that when our DD was born, and DH was walking around the hospital on the day they were doing circs., he noticed how all the little boys were crying, and i think it made an impression on him. i have told him how from what i've read circs. were so "routine" at the time he was born (1950's) that they didn't even ask the parents first, hospitals just did it. and i've told him about how the sexual experience is better for men who are *not* circed. like most men, he's pretty big on sex, and i think this point also made an impression.

no offense, but screw your stepmom and others who say it's up to the husband/father to decide. it's your baby that you gestate and bring to life. it's up to you to protect him once he's born.

again, just don't sign the consent. *you take the heat.* (if there is any pressure.) you take the heat, to spare your son the pain. that's being a protective mother.

good luck, and stop worrying about this for now! because the answer is simple.

[DJay]

There are lots of families with pro-circumcision bias, and then a couple does their homework and realizes that leaving their new son intact is really a good idea. It's not the families choice. And most on this site would say that it is not your choice either. Your son should be able to choose for himself when he is old enough to know what he wants.

When you do your homework, you realize that today's medical circumcision that remove all of the foreskin are not a good idea.

Hang in there and don't circumcision a future son.

[Greg B]

Here are two good resources to have read and have in your back pocket if the discussion comes up.

The first is short and too the point, but also includes references. Frequently pro circ people ignore or minimize important issues in making a balanced decision. Instead they let one or two issues overwhelm the discussion. And they give great weight to hearsay and unsupported information/feelings.

http://icgi.org/Downloads/FD2.pdf

The second is written by doctors. This can carry weight with people who feel that if an authority says it, it must be true. More importantly, it delves into the issues in detail and focuses on the child's rights.

http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...yStatement.pdf

The bottom line is that it is your child's body, and unless the advantages strongly outweigh the disadvantages, it is far better legally and morally to let him decide later in life. It can even be argued that the results are most likely to be better if circ is done after a man has developed sexually.

Regards

[SleeplessMommy]

Before you get married, make sure your husband is strongly on your side. It is a really important discussion, just like you would talk about desired number of kids, religion and finances. Parenting decisions are made by the parents of the child, not by grandparents. People also use to spank their kids, feed them formula from day one, and force lefties to be right handed - we don't do that any more.

If you pick the right guy (probably not US born) you may even be able to find an intact one. They are more and more common to find these days.

[azchickie]

Originally Posted by SleeplessMommy

Before you get married, make sure your husband is strongly on your side. It is a really important discussion, just like you would talk about desired number of kids, religion and finances. Parenting decisions are made by the parents of the child, not by grandparents. People also use to spank their kids, feed them formula from day one, and force lefties to be right handed - we don't do that any more.

If you pick the right guy (probably not US born) you may even be able to find an intact one. They are more and more common to find these days.

I actually thought about that. I plan to go to graduate school in Germany and eventually want to live there, so hopefully I'll meet someone there. Of course, not for his circumcision status, but because I want to marry someone from where I was born (not a necessity, but I think it would be nice.) However, I live in Arizona and the circumcision rate here now is around 25%. My family come from Ohio and Michigan, where it is much higher.

I can't multi-quote...but thank you for the links, Greg B.

And to all, I always thought it was stupid that my family would be upset for me to do nothing. It's definitely interesting (and tiresome), that for any other medical procedure or anything really, people would look into the facts or get a second-qualified opinion. Circumcision is not like that. People take the "studies" at face value and think the correlation equals causation. Like they have not looked at the HIV/STD studies and the prevelance rates in the US. I've also asked my stepmom how 80% of the world can get along just fine without being circumcised and she justified it with "We are a cleaner society, etc," which is also not true.

Even if those studies were proven to be true, I think educating people about sex and sexual activity is much better in the long run than cutting off body parts. It seems to me like that's the easy way out. I think sexual education should begin at a younger age. I took it in high school---and what kind of high schooler listens to teachers? I mean, if they're going to get the education from somewhere and it'll probably be wrong if they get it from their peers.

I'd agree with Lewis Black---that for a society that is seemingly obsessed with health, we, as a whole, know very little about it. We don't even know if milk is good or bad. We make everyone panic, misdiagnose things, and have people worry about things that will probably never happen.

I also hate the argument of "he won't remember it." You can rape, hit, kick, and smack a baby too and they won't remember it, but it doesn't mean it's ok.

And yes, ElliesMomma: the reason why it is no big deal for grown men to get circumcised is that they have made the choice themselves. I brought that up because my family says it's harder and more painful to get circumcised then. But guys who have had it done tell me just the opposite---they also get to choose what kind of circumcision, when it's done, etc. Most don't even wish their parents made the decision for them and that the circumcision wasn't even an inconvenience.

[bandgeek]

Well you have one awesome thing going for you....you are not trying to make a decision or convince your partner while you are already pregnant!

I didn't mention anything really until I was already pregnant. Of course he was a boy. I was dead set against it and my ex was for it. I said "over my dead body" and he got mad. He eventually came around (and even thanked me for standing my ground!) and yes, my son is still perfect as the day he was born. *Everyone* told me it was something that HAD to be done, I was sick for not doing it, I'd feel bad later when he got infections all the time. Complete and total crap. And I knew it. Just like you know it.

I'm no longer with my kids' dad and I'm dating someone else. I brought it up after just a month or two. He was shocked and a little...upset...that I felt the way I did. But I told him most things I can compromise on but this is one thing I can't, or won't, compromise on. He still didn't get it and I just told him it wasn't our choice, it should be the owner of the penis who makes the decision...as an adult. He understood then.

So with my ex, there was a lot of fighting during a time we should have been enjoying. With this relationship, we worked it all out looong before discussing children. I'm relaxed and feel good about it. That I won't have to ever fight with him.

So find yourself a partner who can agree with you. I'm not saying toss them aside if they don't agree immediately, but just work out these kinks before it comes to a fight.

Like someone else said, it IS wise to work out a lot of stuff before getting married. Not just circ.

[azchickie]

Thanks, bandgeek.

Your post made me feel a whole lot better. I guess I had imagined it being the end of the world if my family disagreed. I applaud you for sticking to your guns and not letting anyone persuade you.

[bandgeek]

Originally Posted by azchickie

Thanks, bandgeek.

Your post made me feel a whole lot better. I guess I had imagined it being the end of the world if my family disagreed. I applaud you for sticking to your guns and not letting anyone persuade you.

Out of all the people who acted stupid about it before...95% have come around to the no-circ side, or at least don't see it as weird anymore. *I* was the one who broke the cycle and I'm damn proud of it! Now my little sister most likely won't circ when she has kids, my ex-husband won't either, even though he fought for it at first, my mom is against it now, and if/when my current partner and I have kids, I will be able to teach his family a thing or two because they all still assume it is "normal" to circ. It is sooooo worth it. When you don't circ your son, you aren't only protecting him. You have the potential to protect lots of little ones.

[kriket]

some of my familly is the same way. and we're all bull headed. a great aunt and i got into the conversation and my grandma (go her!) said 'they' (doctors/ AAP) wern't recommending it anymore. she said "you should still do it anyway, its cleaner"

the best advice i can give you, if they say things like this to you after you have tried to make a sane argument, try not to laugh too hard at their silly comments.

and if push comes to shove, just make up something about how the doctor must have forgot in the hospital.

[zinemama]

How would your family even know? If the subject comes up, I think a surprised look and a "Why would you want to discuss the status of my son's penis?" would be the appropriate response. Really, this isn't something you should feel the need to engage with them on.

[BlessedMommy2006]

Don't worry about your family. It's you and your hypothetical son that have to live with the consequences of your decisions--not them!

You mentioned that your family was from Ohio and Michigan. I live in Michigan myself. I know what you mean, circ is seen as "normal" here. My MIL is pro-circ. After the birth of my son, I didn't mention the subject to her. She brought up DS's intact status when he was 1 month old. I debunked all her myths and told her never to retract. End of discussion. She's never brought it up since.

I mean, really, at the very worst, generally all your parents can do is harass you. They can't really just take your baby and go get him circ'ed behind your back. (And if they tried, they would be risking massive lawsuits and never seeing their grandchild again)

You will be surprised at what motherhood will do to you. I've really become fiercely protective. Nobody will mess with my babies.

My children have changed me. They have taught me to stand up for what I believe in and not worry so much about what others think.

Good for you for thinking this out before marriage and kids!

[tutucrazy]

I just wanted to chime in and say good for you for taking the time to think about this. When you do meet the right person this is something you will want to discuss before getting married. You will be happy to know that those studies about circ reducing UTI, reducing STD/HIV transmission, and improving cleanliness are a big load of CRAP. Once you do a little research (we have some great resources in our sticky) you will see how silly those ideas are.

As for your family, you can do a little educating if you want. By leaving my son intact I actually educated my mother and now she is anti-circ. She circed both my brothers b/c a doctor told her bad information. Now she regrets it and wishes that the internet were available to here when my brothers were born. She would have never had them circed if she had just gotten the right information. The thing with circ is that it is something some people feel hell bent on finding value in. For some people, even the thought that circ is not right makes them feel a deep seeded guilt for having partaken in this barbarity. You will find that these people grasp at any and every possible "reason" that tries to validate circ. Even if those "reasons" are proven invalid time and time again. Ignorance really is bliss for some people.

Welcome to TCAC! Please stick around and partake in the discussion. This place is filled with some truly incredible people.

[benj]

don't worry about it now. this is something you and your husband should figure out and agree on. your parents do not have to agree with everything you do. you don't have to convince them of anything. you and your husband will know that you are doing the right thing and that's all that ultimately matters. take their advice in other areas, but know in this one, your position and attitude are the right ones.