Vaccine death?? - Page 3

[Scattershoot]

Originally Posted by fruitfulmomma

I would assume an investigation would have been done. But going off just what is in the article, the police are stating it was an accident. How they know this I couldn't say.

I hear you. My point is you'd think there would be more info on an investigation. I would think that would be a big deal. Anytime it is suspected a baby was killed by a parent it is a huge news event.

[Scattershoot]

Originally Posted by carriebft

Also note that the autopsy isn't said to have been done that day; it is just that the results of the autopsy were released which seems to have triggered this story.

Definitely. But still where is the news of the investigation? How was it determined? Maybe more will come out.

[Romana]

I don't think it's possible to say what killed the baby, but I tend to err on the side of listening to the mother. Most mothers have excellent intuition when it comes to their babies and I'm not especially tempted to assume she's lying to cover up, say, drinking until she was blitzed and then over-lying her baby.

If we take what she says at face value, which I am willing to do (with a grain of salt and pending further information), then I think it really is an open question as to what killed the baby. I for one am extremely sensitive to the movements of my baby when co-sleeping and wake even just at the baby's gentle sigh, or any small movement. I also do not move or roll over when I am sleeping with a baby. There's some scientific evidence to support mothers being in a different sleep state when co-sleeping with a baby (more akin to horses sleeping standing up, for example, than "normal" sleep).

She also stated that the baby had episodes of becoming stiff during the night. That also sounds like a possible vaccine reaction.

I don't think we can say what happened, but as long as the mother's words are given some credence (which, as I said, I believe they should be), then it does raise some questions in the "accidental suffocation" determination.

[Jugs]

Also note that the autopsy isn't said to have been done that day; it is just that the results of the autopsy were released which seems to have triggered this story.

The article states that the baby died yesterday; that's an awfully quick autopsy and investigation, no?

[carriebft]

Like I said, that seems to me like it may be a case of poor journalism and mistaken claims in this publication.

but also, there seems to be an assumption that an autopsy cant happen so quickly just like the assumption that nose and mouth bleeds and suffocation don't have any connection. (guilty here as well, but just pointing this out)

a body of a missing girl was found today according to MSNBC and an autopsy is being performed...I suppose if they announce results tomorrow or whatever then that would be further proof I am wrong in my assumption.

[Jugs]

Not saying it "can't" happen so quickly, but its seems a little too quick for a baby to die at 2am, and the investigation is all tied up in a neat little bow by suppertime. I'm not saying it "must" be the vaccine either, but that it seems like the conclusion that it wasn't is a bit premature, given the timing of the events.

[Calidris]

Originally Posted by fruitfulmomma

I don't know what the medical community is like in Trinidad, but if this had happened in the US, we all know perfectly well that they are slanted *against* bedsharing and in favor of vaccinations.

There might be some brief advertising campaign but bed sharing is often for economic reasons as much as anything else. And convenience, with a small baby of course.

Originally Posted by Jugs

The article states that the baby died yesterday; that's an awfully quick autopsy and investigation, no?

no, typically an autopsy is performed immediately after death, here, no idea how it's done in the States.

Odd that the baby was vaxxed at 2 months, typically in the public health system they do the first vax at 3 months, in the private system they do tend to start at 2 months though.

They do DTP here, not DTaP, by the way. I remember my DD had a terrible reaction to it at 2 months.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by carriebft

I think the bottom line is, for me, that the autopsy indicated suffocation and it would seem that further investigation is needed into the family.

As to the point that it must be the vaccines, I cannot agree but I think, since we don't know what caused the suffocation, anything is possible. But another paper I read talked about shaken baby and the sequence of bleeding, brain swelling, and death being different in vaccine induced brain swelling and shaken baby. So, after seeing that idea talked about here a lot, I also question these ideas that most SIDS and cases of infant layover/suffocation are also vaccines.

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/extract/329/7458/177

This, like many other stories of parents convicted of harrming thier children is heartbreaking. Sometimes the "experts" get it wrong

[carriebft]

I don't see the section where I am claiming that/ claiming experts are never wrong?

[Baby_Vol]

Bleeding from the nose and mouth can have other causes besides suffocation. And if the baby was indeed bleeding before the vax, why is the doctor not saying so? Do you really feel it is logical that a mother would arrive at the clinic with a baby showing "evidence" of suffocation, but the doctor would just vax her and send her home? No call to the authorities? No examination to figure out the problem? That sequence of events does not make sense; in the words of Judge Judy, "If something doesn't make sense, then it probably isn't true."

Exactly.

Also, if the baby were bleeding from the nose and mouth, and the doctor just did a quick "check up" and vax and sent her home ...the doctor should be held accountable. It doesn't add up.

I read it as the bleeding happened AFTER the vaccination. That makes sense.

There are plenty of cases where parents were falsely accussed, and put in jail, for killing their child when in fact it was a vaccination that did it. Look up the case mentined earlier in this post. There are many more after that as well. So very sad. I should mention, many of these parents are now having re-trials as the fight to have the truth come out, and they are being proven innocent.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by carriebft

I don't see the section where I am claiming that/ claiming experts are never wrong?

I'm not saying that you did....Im putting up a relevant link to a book about a story tha this woman's babies death (suffocation death) was proven to be vaccine related. This was after she was jailed for SBS. Many experts testified at her trial about the circumstances around the child's death in terms of injury and sequence etc....

[Calidris]

Some perspective.

The article is badly written. The child went to clinic (a public health system where children are seen roughly routinely for the first year (like well baby visits), the first visit is usually at 6 weeks, the 2nd at 3 months, they see a doctor briefly, but the majority of the time is spent with nurses and the District Health Officer, the mother did not expect her to be vaxxed since she was only 2 months.

The second part, where the mother woke and realised the child was bleeding would be after the vax, in the night (clinic visits are in always the morning).

The paediatrician commenting (Beni Balkeran) would not be the one who saw the child, he is simply an well known ped from the area, who would be contacted for comment by the press.

The autopsy would probably have been fairly routine and stopped at the first apparent "cause". "Suffocation" does not necessarily imply intentional action.

[mamakah]

Originally Posted by BoringTales

So you think its impossible that someone could try and blame something else after harming their child??

Where is the proof in either of the claims?

So you think its impossible that someone (lets say, I don't know...a Dr.) could try and blame something else (lets say, suffocation) after harming a child?
PP said you should research SBS and I agree. Also, look into SIDS. I'm interested to see about bleeding while suffocating too. Interesting. First the Dr. said the baby was suffocated, then "crushed." mmmmmmm. ok.

[carriebft]

Originally Posted by Marnica

I'm not saying that you did....Im putting up a relevant link to a book about a story tha this woman's babies death (suffocation death) was proven to be vaccine related. This was after she was jailed for SBS. Many experts testified at her trial about the circumstances around the child's death in terms of injury and sequence etc....

who says it was proven to be vaccines? her first son died of a staph infection-- Id have to look up what happened to the second but I don't remember reading it was vaccine related.

[carriebft]

as I expected, conspiracy theories, whaleto and some other unbelievable sources are the only ones I see linking the death to vaccines?

I also see lots of "suspicion" sites on this. BUt you claim it was "proven" where did you get that information?

[newmum35]

The photo looks like the face of a mother in mourning. Read her words carefully (the words of the mother). She sounds SURE it was the vaccine (and I believe mothers know best 99% of the time) ... the baby was "crying and crying" ... "stiff" ... "bleeding" It's true there aren't many facts in the story to draw a firm conclusion either way. But based on the little tidbits given, if they are true, we can make an educated guess. I doubt the parents would be persuing legal action if they feel they accidentally smothered their baby. They would mourn and let it go. The fact they are trying to get help with this tells you something. THEY KNOW what really happened. They know their baby was fine before the check-up, and not so fine afterwards. That must be horrific to experience something like this and then witness the death certificate with the cause of death an outright lie. That would make my blood boil.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by carriebft

as I expected, conspiracy theories, whaleto and some other unbelievable sources are the only ones I see linking the death to vaccines?

I also see lots of "suspicion" sites on this. BUt you claim it was "proven" where did you get that information?

Bad choice of words...no proof. should have said speculated....I do not believe that deaths attributed to SIDS or SBS should be dismissed so easily as NOT being vaccine related...proof or not. The fact is that it CAN happen. It has been proven to have happened (Alan Yurko for example) so why is is such a stretch to believe it may have happened in this case?? I find it perfectly plausible that the fact that it happens to more than 1 baby in a family may have to do with the fact that they were genetically predisposed to not be able to handle some of the toxic ingredients in the vaccines.
But then again I'm a conspiracy theorist
What I find heartbreaking is that this woman was so damaged from her experience that she basically drank herself to death.

[Scattershoot]

Originally Posted by Jugs

The article states that the baby died yesterday; that's an awfully quick autopsy and investigation, no?

The investigation part, or lack thereof, just doesn't make sense at all. I hope this woman can get a good lawyer and doctor to work on this. It's strange that the police would be so quick to claim accident. It's a big deal when a baby dies. Like another poster mentioned, they tied this up in a nice little bow awful quickly which always leads to suspician. Somebody is covering somebody's backside.

[KimberlyD0]

Originally Posted by newmum35

The photo looks like the face of a mother in mourning. Read her words carefully (the words of the mother). She sounds SURE it was the vaccine (and I believe mothers know best 99% of the time) ... the baby was "crying and crying" ... "stiff" ... "bleeding" It's true there aren't many facts in the story to draw a firm conclusion either way. But based on the little tidbits given, if they are true, we can make an educated guess. I doubt the parents would be persuing legal action if they feel they accidentally smothered their baby. They would mourn and let it go. The fact they are trying to get help with this tells you something. THEY KNOW what really happened. They know their baby was fine before the check-up, and not so fine afterwards. That must be horrific to experience something like this and then witness the death certificate with the cause of death an outright lie. That would make my blood boil.

So did the mother who locked her 2 boys in their carseats and then pushed the car into a lake and drowned them. I can't remember her name, I do remember it being the first time I had ever heard for PPS. I was pretty young when it happend. So did Caily Anthonys mother, and so have hundreds of other family members who hurt or killed their children.

You can't judge how she feels from a picture. People have been fooled way to many times.

Its easy to conclude that a parent can't kill their own child because any one of us could never do that. Saddly the world is too full of people who don't care about anyone but themselves and are capable of trully evil things.

No one here or in the article is even saying she did it intentonally, but as an accident I could see her, or anyone else really, trying to find something else to blame.