What if new moms had to sign a waiver? - Page 2

[thismama]

Eh, I don't think it's so bad. It's just a waiver, we would sign for other medical interventions. And the hospitals give such crap breastfeeding advice, even crappier support, and then wash their hands of the whole issue coz they pressured mama to put baby up to her breast at least once so they could tik\c off the 'breatfeeding initiated' box. Might warn mamas to not take nurses' 'a little formula won't hurt, just til your milk comes in' advice so damn trustingly.

[fruitfulmomma]

I'm all for informed consent, and I think that all women should know the risks of formula feeding. IMO prenatal visits are the best time for health care providers to pass on this information.

I was just wondering about this. Do they not generally do this? I've only had midwifery care, so I don't really know what goes in a typical OB visit, but isn't there any discussion of care for the child, breastfeeding, etc...

And ftr I am not at all opposed to the idea of handing out a sheet or booklet on infant feeding practices which details why breast milk is the best option and the risks of formula feeding.

[Ruthla]

This is all along the same lines as the whole "what if formula was only available by prescription" argument.

Formula is not dangerous. "Not breastfeeding" is dangerous. If a woman is unable or unwilling to breastfeed, or needs to supplement, formula is the 2nd safest choice (after donated human milk.) If you restrict access to formula, you're not going to make more women breastfeed. It's more likely to result in more babies being fed innapropriate breastmilk substitutes, such as plain whole cow's milk.

I'd love to see human milk banks expanded. If they'd let women with babies over a year old donate, I think we'd have a whole lot more breastmilk available.

[kimiij]

I don't think it's such a bad idea either.

[PatioGardener]

Originally Posted by fruitfulmomma

I was just wondering about this. Do they not generally do this? I've only had midwifery care, so I don't really know what goes in a typical OB visit, but isn't there any discussion of care for the child, breastfeeding, etc...

In my experience (in Canada) it is often left to a 'so, how do you plan to feed your baby?' with no information other than 'breast is best'. In general I think family doctors are more likely to give more info than OBs, and midwives give the most information.

I had an awesome family doc in the last city I lived in who talked about brestfeeding with women during their annual exam. She said that it gave her a chance to talk about it naturally when she did the breast exam, and allowed her to get not yet pregnant women thinking about it at least.

[thismama]

Total crap info in the mainstream medical sector - both a lack of info and misinformation. Hospitals are notoriously breastfeeding unfriendly, including the ones that have that 'breastfeeding friendly hospital' designation.

[fruitfulmomma]

In my experience (in Canada) it is often left to a 'so, how do you plan to feed your baby?' with no information other than 'breast is best'. In general I think family doctors are more likely to give more info than OBs, and midwives give the most information.

Hmm... maybe they should be giving out copies of The Womanly Art.

[G8P4]

I do know hospitals in New Zealand have an informed consent form for people to sign if their newborn is to recieve infant formula in the hospital. The informed consent does not discriminate against mothers who choose to feed their babies that way or mothers who as a previous poster said, have had double mastectomies. In either case, both groups of women, no matter who wishes it wasn't so, have babies who are at increased risk of the various negative health outcomes that occur in babies fed infant formula.

There certainly are risks and benefits to most things. Having an epidural is one a previous poster mentioned. While I do not want to side track this thread, if hospitals already require you to sign for this, then what is the difference here? Do people think that signing a form requiring the woman to at least think about the risks along with benefits of getting an epidural- however briefly- is akin to making women go through a guilt trip about having an epidural? No, it is not. And, if you really do need an epidural, it doesn't take away the risks of epidural. So why get all up in arms about this kind of form?

[zinemama]

Reminds me of the waiver I signed at my pediatricians when I declined to vax on schedule.

Except then I hadn't been up for 26 hours, wasn't in significant pain and didn't have bizarre new hormones coursing through my body. A time like that is not the appropriate time to "educate" someone.

[1littlebit]

i suppose they could have you do it when you sign all the other papers. there are enough of them it might be squished in there somewhere already refusing to sign it would be a good way to prevent the hospital from trying to slip the baby some formula.

[Romana]

What MeepyCat said, x10. The place to discuss the benefits of breastfeeding and risks of formula feeding is during prenatal visits. Just because the system messes up other issues by not providing sufficient information for informed consent prior to labor doesn't mean we should add to its flaws by suggesting the same kind of tactic for formula feeding.

I don't see how such a measure could do anything but insult, offend, wound, and humiliate.

Two giant thumbs down on this idea.

[PGTlatte]

I do not like the idea of a waiver like that. To me it really comes across as pressuring moms to breastfeed, not encouraging them to do so in a positive way. I think it would create resentment and be more of a turnoff than a help.

However, what I would really like is for hospitals to be legally required to obtain consent from the parents before feeding formula, except in the case of a mother being medically unable to give consent and no father or other guardian available to do so.

With our first son, he cried all night the first and second night, and I was continually pressured by the nursing staff to give him formula. And the morning we checked out, we were away from him for only a few minutes, and in that time a nurse fed him 1 oz of formula without our consent, knowing we had been refusing it all night long. And this same nurse literally chased us down the hall on the way out of the hospital with the sample can, telling me I would regret not taking it, that it was just a matter of how desperate I wanted to get .

So I would love it if hospitals were legally prohibited from feeding formula without the parents' written permission to do so, except in cases where there is no parent or guardian present who can give the permission and the baby needs to be fed something.

[AllyRae]

My guess is that if made to sign a waver with horrid consequences on that, some women would not sign it, not give their babies formula, and then either not breastfeed as often as needed, or would nurse the 2 days they are in the hospital and then get formula on the way out. Or bring formula with them upon checking in at the hospital. People who want to formula feed by choice will likely want formula feed by choice no matter what they have to sign. People that HAVE to formula feed not by choice might already feel extreme guilt and don't need a piece of paper to make them feel worse.

Until formula is a controlled and/or prescription substance, it is really not falling under the guidelines of medical treatment or something that requires informed consent.

And holy crap, I can't imagine a worse thing to do to a freshly postpartum woman than to give her a paper telling her that she might cause her child's death. Are you going to pass along the zoloft along with that consent form, because telling that to a newly postpartum woman will likely cause some really intense emotions and guilt. Heck, you know, I felt guilty enough when my 36 weeker required formula down a feeding tube because she couldn't swallow, suck, root, and had crashing blood sugar, and I have low supply issues. I don't really need to know that I'm signing her life away as well. And since we DID have a child die in infancy, receiving that consent form would have been a horrible trigger.

ETA: And if you're forcing women to sign informed consent to formula feed and scaring them out of it, are you also up with them at 2 (and 3 and 4 and 5. : ) AM helping them? Are you there offering support for difficulties? Forcing a woman to breastfeed who doesn't want to breastfeed by scaring the hell out of them seems like it's setting the woman up for a supportless nursing journey, failure to thrive because the mom doesn't have the support to make sure breastfeeding is going well, etc. I'd rather moms breastfeed because they want to and have the support to than to be scared into it.

[fruitfulmomma]

So I would love it if hospitals were legally prohibited from feeding formula without the parents' written permission to do so, except in cases where there is no parent or guardian present who can give the permission and the baby needs to be fed something.

[Amylcd]

What if the mother in question is undergoing chemotherapy or has CF or hypoplastic breasts or has lost her breasts to cancer? Would they still have to sign the waiver? What about adoptive mothers? Should they sign too?

Exactly.

There are no words for how disgusted I am that someone would even suggest something like this.

[AllyRae]

Originally Posted by llp34

I do not like the idea of a waiver like that. To me it really comes across as pressuring moms to breastfeed, not encouraging them to do so in a positive way. I think it would create resentment and be more of a turnoff than a help.

However, what I would really like is for hospitals to be legally required to obtain consent from the parents before feeding formula, except in the case of a mother being medically unable to give consent and no father or other guardian available to do so.

With our first son, he cried all night the first and second night, and I was continually pressured by the nursing staff to give him formula. And the morning we checked out, we were away from him for only a few minutes, and in that time a nurse fed him 1 oz of formula without our consent, knowing we had been refusing it all night long. And this same nurse literally chased us down the hall on the way out of the hospital with the sample can, telling me I would regret not taking it, that it was just a matter of how desperate I wanted to get .

So I would love it if hospitals were legally prohibited from feeding formula without the parents' written permission to do so, except in cases where there is no parent or guardian present who can give the permission and the baby needs to be fed something.

I should have just quoted this. I agree with you! I think hospitals should have consent to feed babies formula because ultimately, it's the parent's CHOICE of what goes in their baby's bodies. I do not think scare tactics for food need to be used, at all (OMG, can you imagine if we extended that idea and you had to sit there and sign informed consent forms at the McDonalds drive through saying you are aware of the increased risk of obesity, diabetes, heart attacks, etc. from eating there? : ). I think ultimately, the hospitals should just get consent from the parents saying what can go in the child's body, and RESPECT that choice.

[annettemarie]

It seems very manipulative to me to say "What's that? You want to give your baby formula? Sure! First sign this piece of paper saying that you understand it might KILL your baby" when the mama is in the hospital and has just given birth. Someone else compared it to that piece of emotional blackmail the AAP wants to force non-vaccinating parents to sign, and I have to agree.

I also agree with the mamas who have said education needs to be better prenatally, and the mama who said that hospitals should not be allowed to give formula without express permission.

[CrunchyChristianMama]

Speaking of waivers...

This may be slightly o/t, but not really. I know a woman in her 60's who had three children that she ebf. While in the hospital she had to sign a waiver that said she understood that she was risking the health of her children by not allowing the hospital to give them formula.

Just a reminder that despite how far we have to go...we really have come a long way.

[Caroline529]

I am also aware that by not breastfeeding, I am increasing my own risks of breast cancer, ovarian cancer, endometrial cancer, uterine cancer, osteoporosis, rheumatoid arthritis, and obesity.

Also, this simply is not true. While breastfeeding may/does lower these risks, NOT breastfeeding does not INCREASE these risks.

[annettemarie]

With my mod hat on I'd like to remind everyone that the purpose of this forum is to advocate breastfeeding, not to bash formula or women who, for whatever reason, choose to use it. From the forum guidelines:

The Lactivism forum is not intended to be a place where MDCers to bash mothers who are formula feeding. It is understandable that lactivists become frustrated over the mainstream formula feeding culture. Criticizing ideas, campaigns, and actions that negatively impact breastfeeding are all acceptable forms of lactivism. Name calling, criticizing individuals, or attacking women who choose to formula feed as a group are not.

and the User Agreement

Do not post in a disrespectful, defamatory, adversarial, baiting, harassing, offensive, insultingly sarcastic or otherwise improper manner, toward a member or other individual, including casting of suspicion upon a person, invasion of privacy, humiliation, demeaning criticism, name-calling, personal attack or in any way which violates the law.

MDC serves an online community of parents, families, and parent, child and family advocates considering, learning, practicing, and advocating attachment parenting and natural family living. Our discussions concern the real world of mothering and are first and foremost, for support, information, and community. Mothering invites you to read and participate in the discussions. In doing so we ask that you agree to respect and uphold the integrity of this community. Through your direct or indirect participation here you agree to make a personal effort to maintain a comfortable and respectful atmosphere for our guests and members. Please avoid negative characterizations and generalizations about others to respect the diversity of our online community.