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How far do you take it, with your pro-circ DH? Am I over the top? Crazy? - Page 4

post #61 of 124
Averysmomma! I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. I posted the other day and have just edited b'c it was a pretty emotionally charged post. I was taken aback b'c you're always so strong & wise when responding to others' issues and usually have advice on how the rest of us can work something out. I know you must be torn up by this & I send you strength!
post #62 of 124
With guys you have to be firm with them.

Remind him that a circumcised child is:
a) in pain and discomfort
b) will require a lot more care.

Tell him that reports of problems later are greatly exaggerated and that problems post-circumcision are vastly under-reported.

Also say that in Canada (the closest country to the USA ) neonatal circ rates have dropped to less than 10%:
http://www.cirp.org/library/statistics/Canada/


Finally, get him to watch this video with Doctor Dean Edell:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHVvB1oHAgg&feature=related
post #63 of 124
Aaaaand back to your regularly scheduled program! Sorry about the little delay in getting the thread back!
post #64 of 124
Curious to know if it's a boy....
post #65 of 124
I went to her profile and then "all posts." She posted on another topic that it's a boy!
post #66 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaylaBeanie View Post
I went to her profile and then "all posts." She posted on another topic that it's a boy!
Let the storm begin...


Everyone get all their info ready, this lady is going to need a lot of help and support!
post #67 of 124
My DH was set in much the same way and has much the same overall pholisophy. He was appalled that I asked about piercing my DD's ears. He said not till she asked for it. We left our cats claws intact becasue it is inhumane and actually illegal to have them declawed in some states. He is a tatoo artist and won't tatoo my sister who has been begging for a while because she is not 18 and therefor not legal age, even though my parents have said it was okay.

Basically I left it alone till we knew we had a boy coming. No use arguing about it if there was no reason, right? Then I made up rules. We didn't discuss it face to face, e-mail only, becasue it was to emotional for both of us. We would have ended up yelling and someone would get hurt feelings.

Then (and this was the big thing) I put it on him to come up with facts/ reasons/ studies to prove his point. I was on the side of nature, the default. Innocent basically. He was trying for modification, surgery. Therefor HE needed to convicne me that it was a good idea. Coercion like leaving the marrage would not be tolerated.

Every once in a while I would send him a link to interesting onfo I found, but other than that we didn't discuss it. When the time came and my wonderful HB turned into a transfer, the nurses asked. And I just looked at him. He said no circ. Had he said that we were circ'ing, I would have immediately corrected them, but putting that power in his hands (even if I already knew the answer) forced his hand. He couldn't do it and i knew it.

In a year or so our son will need surgery to correct a syndactly (fusion) of his fingers. DH tried one more febal attempt at the circ issue. He claimed that since I was so against it happening w/o anesthesia, maybe they could just do it when he had his surgery. I balked and said that no, it was not about the anesthesia thing, it was about it being HIS body. It was not our decision to make. He dropped it after that.
post #68 of 124
I haven't read the whole thread but I'm sorry you are dealing with this! As someone who DID circ my son (though not due to my DH - it was due to my own/our combined ignorance!) I can tell you that you will never forgive yourself if you do this. But it sounds like you already know that & plan to stand firm.

Do you think that (maybe once a period of not discussing it has passed... time to cool down maybe...) he would be open to some sort of compromise - say, leave the baby intact for 1 year and THEN discuss it again? I'd be shocked if he would really want to put his baby through that after getting to know him & how perfect he is... Just an idea.

I don't know what I'd do in your shoes really. I'm lucky that it didn't take much for DH to agree with me on this one. Our next son is due in 3 weeks and will be intact. Good luck.
post #69 of 124
Congrats on expecting a little boy, Averysmomma!

"How far I'd take it", personally, is... very far. Luckily I married a man who's now an intactivist (neither of us were really aware of the issue beforehand) and live in a country where circ is rare. But if for any reason push comes to shove in the future... yeah, I'd do whatever it took. The outcome is non-negotiable. The method of getting to the outcome could vary - medical evidence, emotional arguments, even threatening separation - but at the end of the day, my son would remain intact.

I think I startled my mother about this one. She knows I'm an intactivist, but I also believe in wifely submission (religious thing) so she asked if I'd "defy my husband" on this issue if it came down to it. I said "Absolutely, just as I would have if he'd tried to circ our daughter". I think she "got it" then.
post #70 of 124
...
post #71 of 124
We are having a girl, If we were having a boy we wouldn't cut him.

This is our first, and we talked about it before we knew the sex.

All it took is for us both to watch a vid how its done.

Then we did a little research on how it is just a ritual.

Then we realized how brutal the female version is.

That pretty much sealed the deal for both of us.

I can understand how some men will say," I want my son to look like me" I totally understand. That was my first stance on the subject. But then I realized how selfish that was.

like: " I only have one arm I want my son to look like me"

hmmm.

By the way this is my second post here, looks like a great forum.
-Chris
post #72 of 124
Hey Real Life Dad, glad to have you here
post #73 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by perspective View Post
I agree. I think its an age issue. God maybe there was a time (the 50's, or 70's,?) Where if you were intact you were seen as a freak. That a little boy with a foreskin would teased and harassed in the locker room, and avoided by all the girls. Maybe some of these older Dad's saw this one day as a child, and it cemented into them as this really funny day, but horrified them to imagine their son being at the other end of those social attacks.

Maybe that happened decades ago. But not anymore. Younger fathers may remember seeing an intact guy (heck maybe a group) and it was different but no one took notice, it was never as big of a deal.


Side note: Benji- I dont know what your reasons were, but those must have been some strong reasons if you did it knowing you might view your own penis has mutilated afterwards.
Yeah...from the atmosphere in my high school, if you were to say anything about another guy's penis in the locker room, you'd be accused of being homosexual (which isn't good either...)

However, I was turned down once for being intact. And it did suck, but if it can keep me away from stupid and ignorant girls, I guess that's just another positive function.

Nah, it's not that bad. I just have to change my attitude, although it might take some time.
post #74 of 124
Averysmum i just stumbled upon this, sorry you are going through this. I dont think you are going to far at all, not at all. I seriously wouldnt hesitate to take my baby and run if i felt that he would be circed behind my back, and i would be entirly uninterested in being in a reslashionship where i was fearful of that happening.

I would not allow my child to be sexually abused and mutilated, that may seem over dramatic to some but that is honestly how i feel in my hearts of hearts.

Good luck, seriously do what you have to, i hope this works out for you.
post #75 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by benj View Post
However, I was turned down once for being intact. And it did suck, but if it can keep me away from stupid and ignorant girls, I guess that's just another positive function.

Nah, it's not that bad. I just have to change my attitude, although it might take some time.
wtf? i would love to meet the girl who asks about a guys circ status before she gets intimate. i would also sort of wonder why you would turn someone down b/c they are intact... that makes no sense.

as a girl who had zero opinion on foreskins...and whose friends had zero opinion on foreskins prior to dating a guy with one.. the ones whose b/f's were intact knew this and appreciated this spiffy feature. i had no idea.. it never occurred to me to wonder... i wasn't performing a medical examination after all.... and i didn't spend a lot of time staring at it.

some people are down right strange.
post #76 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1littlebit View Post
wtf? i would love to meet the girl who asks about a guys circ status before she gets intimate. i would also sort of wonder why you would turn someone down b/c they are intact... that makes no sense.

as a girl who had zero opinion on foreskins...and whose friends had zero opinion on foreskins prior to dating a guy with one.. the ones whose b/f's were intact knew this and appreciated this spiffy feature. i had no idea.. it never occurred to me to wonder... i wasn't performing a medical examination after all.... and i didn't spend a lot of time staring at it.

some people are down right strange.
Oh, she didn't ask before.
post #77 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by benj View Post
Oh, she didn't ask before.
yikes! Sorry dude. Probably a positive thing in the long run! I've always heard foreskin makes a great shallow woman filter.

I have never been with an intact guy, just because circ. was really common when I was born so most guys in the US my age are circed. I didn't even know what an intact penis looked like until I came to MDC. I didn't intend to circ my son though, pretty much from the time I thought about it.
post #78 of 124
I do not think you are taking it too far, can you really take protecting your child from unnecessary, painful and sexually altering surgery too far?

I would do whatever it took to protect my child. A child's body parts aren't marital bargaining chips.

I truly hope your dh comes around but if not I hope you do everything in your power to protect your son.
post #79 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by benj View Post
Oh, she didn't ask before.
Ouch. I'm sorry. I can't even imagine...
post #80 of 124

Babies and Adults prefer Intact folks!

So many good things in this discussion. What is clear, is that for someone who has been circumcised, circumcision of their children is still a sort of primeval compulsion, regardless of how it occurred for the father initially.
-I saw this in my brother's case. I think it's terrible. :

My sons are both intact, : -I am not. I was totally Pissed when I found out people knew 600 years ago of the specific damage from circumcision. Damage to sex, damage to the couple's love bond, chronic bickering, 5 minute sex, -for some folks these are the desired fruits of circumcision.

My Sweetie said it should be my choice. Oh yeah? What if I am wrong? What if I am misinformed? What if I can't listen? Being male confers no special decision making privilege, or insight, actually it can detract.

I am still wounded by this. : Post 35 was superb. : It is spot on. This stuff is not in a part of the brain you can "voluntary access" -much as you'd like to, just to be done with it. :

Anyone who's informed that would do this to their child well it makes me wonder.... Wounded? So work on it Bub! Harming your children doesn't make you feel better. -Many posters have said this, its true.

I am just repeating other's ideas. Just wanted to say thank you for post 35 especially, but all of them as well. Great healing community here.

It is women -who have the power to create life, that truly can heal us. Men tend to be destroyers, while women are creators. Envy Much? I think the world would be a better place if more boys learned to knit a pair of socks, after cleaning, carding and spinning the wool by hand. Knowing firsthand the effort that goes into the smallest things, -ones we take for granted, might make them less likely to break things, go to war, etc. My children knit, as do I. (No socks yet!) Knitting teaches patience, counting, beauty,... whats not to like?

Let men stop their violence, -even if women have to hold their hand, or stare them down, all the way to the end. Medicine has aspects of this violence too, in the medicalization of birth, excessive hysterectomies and so on.

Question everything, but especially culture.... Mark Twain said, culture was all the prejudices you inherit by the age of 18. Some truth to that.
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