How do I answer this?

[PaulaJoAnne]

A note left for me on my blog.......

I've known people who were vocal advocates of attachment parenting and those who practiced parenting where disobedience on a child's part resulted in receiving reproof and physical discipline.

The results in the adult children from families who practice the two types of parenting styles have not been the same. In my observation, one of these styles fosters children remaining rebellious and foolish and the other tends to result in children who are more secure and walk in an orderly manner.

I recommend that you find parents on both sides of the issue (and in the middle who have grown children and observe the fruit of both methods before you make a decision. I would not spend much time on Dr. Sears before you have done this. Remember, Dr. Sears has a financial investment in his point of view. Look for parents of grown children to learn from who have no financial investment in what they are teaching.

One thing I would like to point out, is that I know AP families with grown children. None of them are lazy or foolish.

[Hokulele]

My first thought is what is driving this person to make such a comment? Do they want to justify their non-GD style of parenting? That's what it sounds like to me.

So maybe they know people who tried both sides of the discipline spectrum. And maybe, from what they say, those grown children are like that. But that doesn't take into account the specific situations of each of those children. And her anecdotal evidence is hardly a scientific study. Your anecdotal evidence conflicts with hers.

Dr. Sears is not the only person advocating GD. There are many well-educated experts in this field who also recommend GD.

Which brings me back to the idea that the person who left that comment is really just trying to make peace with whatever style SHE chose with her children.

[puddle]

First, the plural of anecdote is not data.

Second, this comment references people who are "vocal advocates" of AP. Did the commenter actually know the people well enough to know if they actually practiced attachment parenting? Does the commenter have an understanding of what AP is? A lot of people are under the impression that not using physical punishment means there is no discipline at all. For some families, that is the case. But not for most.

If you think it will make a difference, you could cite some of the peer-reviewed scientific studies that support attachment parenting and corroborate your own observations. You can explain that there is no evidence that using physical punishment is effective, and that it's very possible those grown children who "walk in an orderly manner" may do so in spite of their upbringing rather than because of it.

If you or this commenter have a religious background (as is often the case for supporters of physical punishment) you can offer tons of theological support for your position.

You can talk about your own parental instincts and how it feels wrong to hit your child.

You can talk about how using punishment trains a child to obey out of fear, but when the source of fear is gone then the child has no more motivation to do the right thing, because they have never really learned what is right--only how to avoid punishment.

You will probably not change this person's mind, but if you think the discussion is warranted or will help other readers of your blog, then there are plenty of studies, ideas, anecdotal evidence, logic and common sense to back you up.

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

The simple answer is "you don't". Or, at least, you don't with the thought that you might change this person's mind. You won't. Of course, you might want to make a public rebuttal so that others reading don't think you agree, but that's a different motivation. Assuming you feel you need to do that, some random thoughts:

First and foremost "AP" and "Gentle Discipline" are not the necessarily the same thing. I have known many families who say they are "AP" who spank. So, she is making some great leaps in logic.

Second, there is "gentle discipline" and there is "no discipline". Sadly, people frequently confuse these (either while trying to practice gentle discipline or when they label other people's style). So without knowing what was actually used, anecdotes are not enough to form a conclusion.

A few examples of each discipline style is not enough to form a conclusion. The reality is that some kids will be "foolish" adults regardles of how they are parented. And some kids will be wonderful adults, also regardless of how they were raised. There are so many factors that you cannot control for them, especially when you only look at a few examples of each style. You need thousands of examples and some way to correct for other influences. There are lots and lots of good science behind "no spanking" and you could site those.

[mommy2abigail]

...and 90% of children that grow up in conservative evangelical homes walk away from the faith as soon as they are able. {there was as study on this...I will link it if I can find it} Some do come back, but those numbers are not researched yet. Considering that probably 90% of those kids were spanked...

Ezzo's kid has denounced him. Reb Bradly talks about how his kids strayed as well, and it took him by surprise...he thought he would be able to prevent that.

I'm not practicing this style of parenting because I get 'results'. Honestly, I do this because it's the RIGHT way to treat another human being. Punitive parenting produces the fastest results, quiet, obedient kids who don't question you or bother you. It's easy. You spank them, and scare them enough, and you can just sit on the couch and bark out orders. Gentle parenting and attachment parenting is HARD work. Getting up 15 times a night with a baby is harder than just letting them cry for a few nights and getting it done with. Coming up with a creative solution to problems is much harder than "my way or the highway".

All I'm saying is that knowing a few families whose kids didn't turn out 'right' (according to her standards) is NOT a good indication of what AP/GD kids turn out like in general. I know WAY more adults who are very messed up (and I say that with a lot of love) due to the punitive parenting they endured as children.

[my3peanuts]

Originally Posted by mommy2abigail

...and 90% of children that grow up in conservative evangelical homes walk away from the faith as soon as they are able. {there was as study on this...I will link it if I can find it} Some do come back, but those numbers are not researched yet. Considering that probably 90% of those kids were spanked...

Ezzo's kid has denounced him. Reb Bradly talks about how his kids strayed as well, and it took him by surprise...he thought he would be able to prevent that.

I'm not practicing this style of parenting because I get 'results'. Honestly, I do this because it's the RIGHT way to treat another human being. Punitive parenting produces the fastest results, quiet, obedient kids who don't question you or bother you. It's easy. You spank them, and scare them enough, and you can just sit on the couch and bark out orders. Gentle parenting and attachment parenting is HARD work. Getting up 15 times a night with a baby is harder than just letting them cry for a few nights and getting it done with. Coming up with a creative solution to problems is much harder than "my way or the highway".

All I'm saying is that knowing a few families whose kids didn't turn out 'right' (according to her standards) is NOT a good indication of what AP/GD kids turn out like in general. I know WAY more adults who are very messed up (and I say that with a lot of love) due to the punitive parenting they endured as children.

I'd be interested in this link because I think 90% is a pretty high number and has not been my experience. Both mine and dh's families are conservative Christians and the percentage of children in the family who walked away from their faith is very, very low. And I'm thinking of extended family as well.

Ezzo is an extremist, not necessarily a conservative. He might be both but they are very different in terms of discipline.

[mommy2abigail]

allright, I have to step away for a tonight, but I will try to find it...

[my3peanuts]

Originally Posted by mommy2abigail

allright, I have to step away for a tonight, but I will try to find it...

Thanks!

[Materfamilias]

"walk in an orderly manner" ??
What does that mean? They don't kick up their heels? They don't run? I find this an odd choice of "proof" that authoritarian parenting produces a "better" person than GD...