how can I apply UP to 2 yr old? DH is doubtful and wants to punish

[Brownie~]

I have a very energetic boy who just turned 2. He often refuses to listen to DH and me and we are having a hard time with this. I want to parent without punishing/rewarding, but it doesn't seem to be working. DH wants to do "time outs" and has begun yelling and being forceful. It doesn't seem like the UP book has much to say about little ones. I fear that explaining feelings isn't registering for DS.
For instance, he will hit me in the face when I am holding him (when I have to walk him upstairs because he won't come on his own for a diaper change) and then kick me during it. I try to use phrases like "keep your legs still" instead of "no kicking" and telling him "kicking hurts mommy," but these things don't seem to work at all. He still does it every time. He also bites us (seems like out of boredom, or to see what will happen).

Or, I will tell him "Wait" before he starts going down the street and he'll just take off running. I am not sure how to get him to obey me when it's for his safety. He tries to run off in most situations. The harness has been a disaster (he will yank till he falls down and hits his head, I wind up having to pull him cos he'll go limp, etc).

DH has been losing patience with my ideas and has lately been telling him "you're in trouble!" in a stern voice and making him do time-outs. Last night he threw a temper tantrum during dinner (he wanted to play on the deck and we said no--it wasn't safe to do so) and DH was ready to throw in the towel with my ideas about loving him through the tantrum, etc. DH was pissed that DS ruined dinner and wanted him to pay for it.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[momma_unlimited]

Please enlighten me- what does UP stand for?

[St. Margaret]

I think you need to go get some other books with creative strategies for younger kids, like Kid Cooperation, How to Talk So Kids Will Listen, Adventures in Gentle Discipline, Playful Parenting, etc etc. I LOVE Unconditional Parenting, but it does leave a LOT up for each parent to figure out. That's one thing I love about it-- it's not just proscribing what to do, but reminding us of the kind of parents/kids and people we want to be. But if you get some other strategies, and pick and choose from those books what works for you and your kid, then you might find it all easier. I don't do the consequences that Pantley suggests, but I LOVE some of her other tips for helping a kid cooperate smoothly.

Like, I don't take DD up the stairs screaming for a change. When she was in diapers, we started changing her downstairs in this one spot most of the time, because then she came right over. It was easier for her to know that she could go back to what she was doing I guess. Or if I need to get her upstairs, I pretend we're blasting off to the moon, and she's the rocket. Or I ask, do you want me to carry/fly you upstairs, or do you want to crawl? And she'd pick one.

I find that with strategies, I can get ahead of having to deal with a really trantruming toddler. Also, sometimes outbursts are just going to happen! That's when we get really UP and get down on her level, help her to get calm (we've worked a lot on emotion coaching, from that Gottman book), and talk it through a bit. That's important work for a toddler, too.

I guess that's key to keep in mind: They're TWO!!! Maybe some developmental information would be helpful for your husband. I mean, I would be annoyed if my kid was kicking me and biting me ALL the time, but they're going to keep exploring and they need help dealing with their feelings about it all. I wouldn't give up and say your methods aren't working just because he's still a handful. For safety stuff, I'd make him stay in a carrier or a stroller if he regularly runs off-- you don't want him hit by a car, certainly. And I'd tell him why it had to be that way. I'm lucky that DD holds my hand so well, but the two times she went in the street a bit, my heart stopped. So no great tips there but I sympathize.

[mommy2abigail]

UP-Unconditional Parenting by Alphie Kohn

(disclaimer: we are not 100% UP...we are not 100% anything...)
AFA the nearly 2 yo behavior...it's NORMAL! I know it doesn't help much, but honestly, what he is doing is totally normal. One author (who I love) wrote, "It's the 2 year olds JOB to say no, and it's our job as parents to help him establish a strong NO" With a 2 year old, no, lots of reasoning and explaining doesn't help much...doing it is good practice, but it goes above and beyond their scope of RIGHT NOW. You can have your own boundaries...ie no hitting. If I am being hurt, I will move away. Put him down and tell him "That hurts!" (and not in a syrupy sweet voice either...do it like you would want him to say it if someone hit him, you know?)

As for him ruining dinner...that is a choice, to allow a 2 yo to ruin your dinner. I'm not being snarky at all )I re-read that and it did sound that way...not intended!) Honestly, that is something I have to remind myself all the time. My reaction to any given situation is MY choice. The level of frustration I feel, it's MY choice, and I can CHOOSE not to let the little stuff get to me. If I was in that situation (toddler wanting to go out during dinner) I would, 1. try to distract him with something fun inside 2. think outside the box and maybe have dinner on the patio?

Being a non-punitive parent takes a LOT more work and creativity. I can't just bark out orders and expect them to be followed. And yeah, lots of times, dinner is crazy. HOWEVER, I've noticed (my kids are still very young at just 4 and 1) that the 4 yo is one of the more sensitive to others, honest, and willing to help kid I've met. She is very cooperative, and despite never having been 'punished' for it, rarely ever 'misbehaves'. HOWEVER, she does do things that are age-expected. That's cool, it's what all 4 yo do...same with the 1 yo, she is doing what is typical of 1 yo's. While it's expected, it may not be appropriate (like hitting) so we work on correcting it.

I went through this with my dh as well. He was raised punitively, and was at a loss with my 'no spanking/time out/yelling/shaming'. He simply needed the tools for what TO do. And I needed to help him understand what is normal for her given age...talk to your dh. See what exactly he expects of your ds, and see if it's age appropriate. Talk about proactive solutions for things that bug him (or you!) and put those in place. A word of warning...GD will NOT produce the 'results' that you so quickly see when you use punitive means. HOWEVER, if you are convinced it's the right way to treat people (with respect, dignity and love) it will be easier to stick to it when the going gets tough. HTH

[sunnmama]

UP = unconditional parenting (in addition to other things, parenting without punishment).

I'm not UP really, but I essentially parent that way with 2 year olds. I don't see any reason to punish a two year old, esp with a time out.

The best thing to do at this age, generally (and I have a 29 mo boy, ftr) is to prevent problems. If ds is a runner, have him strapped in the stroller (with a snack makes it more agreeable to ds) before you even open the door.

Carry holding away from you so he can't hit you. Try playful parenting techniques to help him comply ("flying" him up the stairs, racing him up the stairs--carefully!, etc.)

nak...

dinnertime tantrums can happen because of hunger or fatigue. maybe offer him a snack while you prepare dinner to prevent that reason.

phrasing can make a huge difference at this age. instead of "no" deck, "yes, after dinner" can really help (if possible).

Maybe it would help to include him in preparing the dinner table--carrying spoons, bread, etc.

[BlueStateMama]

I think it would be helpful for your DH to understand more about where your 2 year old is, developmentally. Two = no impulse control. When mine were that age, I reminded myself that a toddler is all id - with very little ego and zero super-ego (Gah, I hate Freud, but I found that framework helpful for understanding what my kids were/are capable of...) Two year olds are *just* learning that they are a separate entity from mom/primary parent, and that the world is their proverbial oyster to explore. Who has time to walk when running full speed is so fun!! Dinner??? Forget dinner, man, playing is FUN!! They're not concerned about anyone's needs and wants beyond their own at this phase, as they're just learning that they CAN have needs and wants of their own.

It's all about our keeping them safe at two, IMO, and not about them learning to keep themselves safe (that comes later.) I saw a huge turn in behavior around the age of 4 1/2 and 5 in my son. My daughter, newly 4, isn't there yet.

I'm trying to say gently, that your DH is being unrealistic. A two year old is too young for time-outs, even if that's the way you decide to go with discipline. They don't have a firm "cause and effect" grasp - not even close - and I don't think that they have the self-control to think, "Hmm, I've been warned. If I don't stop doing X behavior, a time out will follow." I think if you start unrelated punishments before they have a chance to even understand any connections between behavior and consequences, that important part of development could be skipped. If at two they get time outs, they will instinctually learn to modify actions based on perceived punishment instead of understanding the whole cause and effect relationship, and miss out on learning about choices.

[1littlebit]

instead of wanting your reaction to change his actions try changing your action to get the desired reaction. bring some diapers downstairs for instance. if he bites when he is bored try and make sure is not bored. kwim? you can only control your actions. its sort of like baby proofing you can follow your kids around telling them not to open this drawer, not to touch that, etc. or you can put locks on the cabinets and your breakables up high until they are old enough to understand.

it took me awhile to wise up on the baby proofing thing ds really likes the remote. i have discovered that my life is a lot easier when i put it up and out of sight when we are not using the tv and i hide it in the couch cushion when we are. i also no longer take my computer out unlesss he is asleep...

[BethandLC]

This is really helping me - so thanks OP as I was just coming here to post something similar. My 27 month old dd is in the smacking me phase and I just needed some inspiration to keep moving forward with the UP philosophy.

[krystyn33]

I agree with all the great responses so far. To me, UP is more about clarifying your goals with discipline, rather than implementing specific techniques. The main difference is an emphasis on long term learning process versus short term (fear induced) obedience. I don't expect my child to be blindly obedient to DH and I. I don't relish or look forward to moments when I'm stressed out or embarrassed (in public) by his behavior, and I do take control over safety issues (if he can't be safe by cars I carry him), and by preventing problems whenever possible (not grocery shopping when he obviously needs a nap, etc.). We model & talk about things and I hold onto trust that he will get the lessons as soon as he's capable. He's doing his best at any given time, like all children.

Here's a good article on toddlers & discipline:
http://www.naomialdort.com/articles8.html

And Naomi Aldort has a useful "SALVE" technique to help parents circumvent those knee-jerk reactions to respond to problems from a more centered & deliberate place--one more connected with our children in the moment.

[lindsayjean]

You've had some great responses!! My DD is a very strong willed 2 y.o., but now that she is more vocal and understands more she is doing a lot "better" (for lack of a better word) with listening when I ask her to do something or not do something. I always (even before she was 2) explained to her why we were to do/not do something... and it always felt like it was falling on deaf ears, but now she really does/doesn't do things because of the consequences they have on others vs. just to avoid punishment.

Like the other day at the library. I watch parents demand their children clean up the toys in the toy room or put their books away and watch the kids just SCREAM and FREAK OUT and this huge power struggle. I ask DD to please put away her books because it would make the librarians very happy because then they wouldn't have to come in and pick them up... and she was so excited to put the books away because she really wanted the librarians to be happy.

I definitely agree with others that non punitive parenting is a LOT more work when they are young (and maybe when they are older too- I just haven't gotten there yet so I don't know!), especially with spirited kids like mine. But even though it's more work I really want my spirited child to be in tune with how others are feeling and how she is feeling vs. just trying to avoid punishment. My DH was a VERY strong willed spirited child and his parents were very into growing kids gods way (VERY into punishment) and I really think he still struggles with certain things like anger because he was never able to get his feelings out as a child... was forced to stuff them down.

Tantrums... oh man, I hear you! My DD had a doozy this morning. I let her have her tantrums, but for some reason she does better if she is in her room by herself to calm down. Anything I do just makes her more angry, so she says "I need a breather" or I ask her is she needs one and she just sits or lays on her bed and then comes and finds me when she feels better- and she is always a COMPLETELY different child when she comes out of there. It's amazing. Not a time out at all since I'm not forcing her to stay in there, but just a safe place for her to work through her feelings. Maybe your son needs something like that? Every kid is so different something you have to try a few things before really figuring out what works best.

I'd really talk with your DH about normal 2 y.o. behavior and exactly why you want to parent the way you do vs. the other way.

[Brownie~]

Thanks so much for the great replies. I especially like the idea of changing the environment rather than expecting DS to change. I need to come up with some creative ideas and have more fun with it (like the idea of being a rocket up the stairs that was mentioned). Sometimes it's easy to lose sight of the "fun." I ordered a book called "Without Spanking or Spoiling," too.

[BlueStateMama]

Brownie - check out "Playful Parenting" - lots of great ideas in that book. I can't always play my way through every parenting challenge, but reading that gave me ideas - and how sometimes it's helpful for the parents to change the vibe of a situation. Getting silly often knocks the power-play aspect out of an interaction.

That book and Unconditional Parenting really helped me look at parenting, and at childhood in general, through a different lens than my own experience. I've cobbled together a lot of info from those two and other books. I've found it useful to take what works for us from one resource, and mix that with other approaches - and that has changed depending on my children's temperments, where they are developmentally, etc. I guess my point is that to take it easy on yourself and don't worry if one parenting philosophy doesn't work 100% for you and your kids, and that know that it's OK to change approaches and mix and match. There's no one size fits all