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is it ever ok for toddler to be nude in public? - Page 4

post #61 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by angie7 View Post
I don't care if the parents were right there, the thoughts of a pervert are enough for me to keep my child covered. They might still think nasty thoughts about my children but I know that I did everything in my power to cover my child up.



It isn't about the act of molestation but the thoughts of doing it to your child. How you would feel if a man was staring at your child intently with a "tent" in his shorts as your child played by the pool. Would you let him b/c he wasn't activily molesting your child? It's just a thought, right?
I would "let" him - because I can't stop him from thinking. I really really don't care about what other people are thinking, even when they are looking at my child. I don't care if they are thinking "what a brat", I don't care if they are thinking "that kid needs a haircut", I don't care if they are thinking dirty thoughts, I just don't care. It has no effect on me and no effect on my children.
post #62 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by angie7 View Post
Frankly, I think it is completely irresponsible on the parents part. First off, no child should ever be naked in public and secondly, wth where they thinking? Perverts might be perverts with clothes on too but come on, that's just asking for it. Poor little boy.

I don't even let my girls diapers show if they are wearing a dress. I put little shorts on underneath b/c I don't want someone getting their "rocks off" at my dds' :
I'm sorry, but who are you to judge what other parents let their child do and decide that the little boy needs to be felt sorry for? They weren't walking down the beach forcing other parents to take their children's clothes off. They were just at the beach and they child decided to be naked.

Quote:
It isn't about the act of molestation but the thoughts of doing it to your child. How you would feel if a man was staring at your child intently with a "tent" in his shorts as your child played by the pool. Would you let him b/c he wasn't activily molesting your child? It's just a thought, right?
You can't control whether the man is there or not. Unless it's your own property, you have no right to ask him to leave just because he creeps you out. And he would be having the same thoughts no matter what your child wears so the only way to protect your child from being a "turn on" for him is by never leaving your house.
post #63 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeminijad View Post
I respectfully disagree that they are "very rare." Every time I hear the stats on the frequency of little girls being sexually abused, I'm blown away by how often it happens.
Most sexual abuse happens with someone the child or the family knows. I'm still not worried about going naked at the beach. Also, it does seem that societies who are less modest don't have as many problems with sexual abuse, child pornography. . .something to think about.
post #64 of 153
I don't think it's a big deal. It's also likely they didn't realize they were in the pictures. Sounds like they were having a fun day at the beach and slowed down to watch something interesting.
post #65 of 153
I am really conflicted on this, because I am not a naked in public kind of gal. But I'm also not what one would consider prudish, at least I don't think I am. I just feel like private parts are private, no matter what the age...so at home in our house? Sure, why not - but even then it's mostly situational nudity, like before/after bathtime, or changing clothes, or whatever...but even at home, I just don't get like, playing nude. My kids play hard and fast, and I can envision lots of situations where private parts would get in the way of that (or things could get in the way of private parts), where things would get irritated, or stuck places, or chafed... I don't *think* I"m a prude, but maybe I am. I guess I just don't get the need to be nekkid much. When I see kids naked out in public, the thought that comes into my mind is, "really? why?" I don't think the parents are bad, or get worried about "perverts", it just seems....impractical? potentially dangerous? uncomfortable? I can't quite pinpoint it. Especially at the beach - all that sun, the sand...oof...I have serious sand issues anyway, the thought of them getting in all those folds, etc. [shudder]

Maybe I need to investigate my inner thoughts more...I don't get a shame vibe when I see naked kids in public, just more of a "why?" vibe.

Re: the wedding couple - when you have your wedding in a public place, you get what you get. I would walk around it to be sure I wasn't in the pictures, even fully clothed, cause honestly I don't want to be (and I don't want my kdis to be) in someone's wedding pictures. I do the same when people are taking pics at other public venues, I give htem space to do it.
post #66 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by angie7 View Post
Frankly, I think it is completely irresponsible on the parents part. First off, no child should ever be naked in public and secondly, wth where they thinking? Perverts might be perverts with clothes on too but come on, that's just asking for it. Poor little boy.

I don't even let my girls diapers show if they are wearing a dress. I put little shorts on underneath b/c I don't want someone getting their "rocks off" at my dds' :
Quote:
Originally Posted by angie7 View Post
I don't care if the parents were right there, the thoughts of a pervert are enough for me to keep my child covered. They might still think nasty thoughts about my children but I know that I did everything in my power to cover my child up.

It isn't about the act of molestation but the thoughts of doing it to your child. How you would feel if a man was staring at your child intently with a "tent" in his shorts as your child played by the pool. Would you let him b/c he wasn't activily molesting your child? It's just a thought, right?

I do not mean to single you out angie7. I believe you are doing what you feel is best for your child. That is completely your right.

Having said that...

This attitude really freaks me out. All I am thinking when reading this is how this kind of thinking is why women are mandated to wear burkas in other cultures. It's all to protect them from other's unclean thoughts.
post #67 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by angie7 View Post
First off, no child should ever be naked in public
so is this is a new law or something?
post #68 of 153
I was married on the beach and people were amazingly respectful- trying to keep quiet, be away from us, and to stay out of photos. People actually turned back rather then walk in front of us when we were doing photos and for our vows. I'm suprised that couple didn't get the same treatment. I also live in an area where a beach wedding is super common- so it was no suprise that people were so polite, although it was no less appreciated.

As for the nudity issue- for me it would be a modesty issue- not an issue of place or age. I wouldn't want my child to be exposed like that, I don't think it teaches the type of personal respect I want my kiddos to have.
post #69 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan73 View Post
Why age 2? Why is it OK before then but somehow not OK after that second birthday?
For me personally it's because at 2yo they're still babies, once they get to be 3yo they're more little people and can understand more about what is and isn't acceptable in our culture. We've started talking to DS1 about how some things are OK at home when we're by ourselves but that they're not when we're out or have company. It's completely OK to be naked when we're at home, just like it's OK to talk about penises etc when we're at home, but that they make other people uncomfortable so we don't talk about it when there's other people around.

Whether it's right or wrong there are things that people in our culture don't find acceptable and I don't want my son being embarrassed, or shamed or picked on because he does something that is culturally unacceptable. It would be the same where ever we lived. Some countries it's a compliment to burp after a meal and in others it's not. If we go into a marae we take our shoes off, and never sit on pillows etc. It's a respect thing.
post #70 of 153
I've only read the OP.

No problem at all. I don't even really register nude toddlers out in public. Once they hit maybe 5, I notice them, but I don't care. I can't see any reason why kids shouldn't be able to be naked. The pervert argument doesn't impact on me at all. I don't like the idea of some pedophile getting their jollies over my kid...but I don't like that idea, whether my child is naked or clothed. We had a janitor at my elementary school who liked to grope the girls, and he never saw any of us naked...he still did a lot of damage. It's possible a pedophile saw ds1 naked when he was little, or that one has seen ds2 naked (he runs out of the house naked any time someone forgets to put the chain on the front door), but if they have, I don't know about it, and they haven't hurt either of my kids.
post #71 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by primjillie View Post
What happened to modesty?
Good point. It honestly would have never crossed my mind to think of this, as "modesty" to me, has absolutely nothing to do with nudity or the lack thereof. (I find the two usages of "modesty" - the humility one and the nudity one - really interesting, actually.) I don't really understand the concept of body modesty, and have no idea how it applies to a small child. So, if someone has an issue with a small child being naked, I do tend to assume that it's either a hang-up about the human body, or fear of perverts. I'll have to try to keep your post in mind in future.
post #72 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by angie7 View Post
Frankly, I think it is completely irresponsible on the parents part. First off, no child should ever be naked in public and secondly, wth where they thinking? Perverts might be perverts with clothes on too but come on, that's just asking for it. Poor little boy.
"Just asking for it?" Please tell me you didn't just say that.

Quote:
I don't even let my girls diapers show if they are wearing a dress. I put little shorts on underneath b/c I don't want someone getting their "rocks off" at my dds' :
I hope you don't actually think that putting shorts on your child is going to make any difference to whether or not a pervert is getting his "rocks off". If they're turned on by little kids, they're turned on by little kids.

Quote:
Originally Posted by angie7 View Post
I don't care if the parents were right there, the thoughts of a pervert are enough for me to keep my child covered. They might still think nasty thoughts about my children but I know that I did everything in my power to cover my child up.
I'm not even following this. So, your child is covered up. The pervert is still thinking nasty things. What, exactly, has been accomplished?

Quote:
It isn't about the act of molestation but the thoughts of doing it to your child. How you would feel if a man was staring at your child intently with a "tent" in his shorts as your child played by the pool. Would you let him b/c he wasn't activily molesting your child? It's just a thought, right?
It would creep me out. It did. There was a guy who used to frequent a local community pool when I was about 10. He used to sit under the water, and a couple times a friend told me she saw him playing with himself while he watched the kids swim. I didn't believe her until I saw it myself. We were about 10, and I'm pretty sure we were among the kids he was watching. We were wearing bathing suits, just as everyone else in the pool was. Yet, he deliberately went there to watch people (mostly kids, and I'm pretty sure that's who he was watching) and get off on it.

I am curious as to what, exactly, anybody could do about it if he just had a "tent in his shorts"? (Nobody could do much as it was, because he put it away if he saw an adult glance his way.) Nobody can stop another person from being aroused, no matter how messed up it is.

FWIW, I used to play naked all the time...in my yard and sometimes in public. I was also molested by two different men - a relative and a school janitor. Neither of those men ever saw me playing naked...not even once. If I, as the child, had a choice between a pedophile getting off looking at my naked self, or someone actually molesting my clothed self, I really don't care about what someone was thinking...not even a little bit.
post #73 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by The4OfUs View Post
...but even at home, I just don't get like, playing nude. My kids play hard and fast, and I can envision lots of situations where private parts would get in the way of that (or things could get in the way of private parts), where things would get irritated, or stuck places, or chafed...
All three of my children have spent most of their childhood naked. If they don't want to get dressed at home, they don't have to (undies are required at the table from an early age, but that's more dh's thing than mine). Except for one incident, when one of my boys got his foreskin caught in a Rubik's cube, I've never had any of those things happen...no irritation (nothing they felt was worth mentioning, anyway), no chafing, not getting things stuck.

Quote:
Maybe I need to investigate my inner thoughts more...I don't get a shame vibe when I see naked kids in public, just more of a "why?" vibe.
Well, for me, it's because my kids like being naked. I guess I come at it more from a "Why not?" kind of place.
post #74 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by lerlerler View Post
Gee whiz..
My kids wear rash guards and bike short swim bottoms.

Modesty? Nope
But I always wondered how much sunscreen a naked child must have on!
For us - a lot. We put sunscreen on totally naked each morning before clothes and reapply if she strips off her clothing throughout the day. We buy at Costco

Quote:
Originally Posted by angie7 View Post
Frankly, I think it is completely irresponsible on the parents part. First off, no child should ever be naked in public and secondly, wth where they thinking? Perverts might be perverts with clothes on too but come on, that's just asking for it. Poor little boy.

I don't even let my girls diapers show if they are wearing a dress. I put little shorts on underneath b/c I don't want someone getting their "rocks off" at my dds' :
Whoa - did you really just say that ... that children are asking to be molested? I really thing you need to read up on what is and is not really a risk to your children because shorts won't make a difference if someone wants to think gross thoughts in his or her head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbbieB View Post
This attitude really freaks me out. All I am thinking when reading this is how this kind of thinking is why women are mandated to wear burkas in other cultures. It's all to protect them from other's unclean thoughts.
:
post #75 of 153
I'm not comfortable with it. If it's a place where an adult wouldn't go naked then why allow a child to do so? I assure you if the child were older and had a choice in the matter they would not choose to do it.

I haved passed houses on occasion where a child would be running in the yard naked. I assume they are potty training them but it bothers me. I don't care what someone does inside their own home, their business. But keep the kid in the back yard, don't allow them to stand by the side of a busy road and aim their pee at cars driving by. Yes I witnessed this once by a boy that was around 18 mos-2 yrs old. Tacky IMO. The parents and other people were sitting on the front porch watching with no expression at all. It was normal to them I guess.
post #76 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by KailuaMamatoMaya View Post
I really thing you need to read up on what is and is not really a risk to your children because shorts won't make a difference if someone wants to think gross thoughts in his or her head.
Actually, reading up on anything doesn't tell you what really goes on in the world.

And I also used to put shorts on my DD, not for the reason that is mentioned here regarding perverts thinking something, but because for the longest time she was not very ladylike in a dress and I prefer to look like a decent mother by putting shorts on my DD when I "know" in advance that she will go to the park or someone's house and do flips and sit with spread eagled on the ground, floor or couch and doesn't care who sees the goods. I knew lots of moms that practiced this same type of thing with their active DDs when they were younger.
post #77 of 153
I tend to think that public nudity is really a cultural thing, so in some places being nude at the beach is ok, others you need a bathing suit, the Victorians covered themselves entirely. And they don't necessarily mean one culture is being oppressive and another not - it's somewhat random. Covering or nudity can be bad if they demonstrate contempt for others or the body. Generally, adults should respect those cultural boundaries - it's unkind to go around making people uncomfortable, that would be a way of showing disrespect for the body in those circumstances.

The virtue of modesty in particular means not purposefully being sexual titillating to others in inappropriate circumstances - so it could be related to public nudity, but a person could also be naked inappropriately just because they were rude, or clueless.

What is appropriate for kids is not always the same, though it varies too by culture. But in a lot of cases, it's only as children become aware of the social boundaries and conventions that they need to observe them. It varies between kids to some degree, but also depends on teaching them when they are able to understand. My dd is 4 - I don't have a problem teaching her that it is not polite to pick her nose in public. She is still pretty natural about her body, but I've started to mention some situations where clothing is a requirement, and I just present it as a social convention.
post #78 of 153
I never let my kids be naked in public due to sun exposure. If it's warm enough to go naked outside, then the sun is pretty strong and I don't want my kids sunburned! I feel the same way about sleeveless shirts- either we want sleeves for warmth or for sun protection. At the beach, my kids are in rash guards or t-shirts over their suits.

But there is NOTHING wrong with naked babies! If I saw a naked toddler coming my way, I'd think "aww, cute baby!" If I saw a clothed toddler, I'd think the same thing!

My only specific concern about a naked toddler vs a toddler in a skimpy bathing suit is "you're not REALLY going to use sunscreen down there, are you?" But with some common sense precautions (covering up the baby or taking him inside after 20 minutes, not doing this at high noon, etc) I don't see any issues.

Sexual predators are going to be attracted to kids with their clothes on or without. A naked toddler walking on the beach with Mommy and Grandma is not in any danger while out on the beach. He's at much greater risk of molestation at home with a "trusted" family member or babysitter.
post #79 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by darcytrue View Post
I'm not comfortable with it. If it's a place where an adult wouldn't go naked then why allow a child to do so? I assure you if the child were older and had a choice in the matter they would not choose to do it.

I haved passed houses on occasion where a child would be running in the yard naked. I assume they are potty training them but it bothers me. I don't care what someone does inside their own home, their business. But keep the kid in the back yard, don't allow them to stand by the side of a busy road and aim their pee at cars driving by. Yes I witnessed this once by a boy that was around 18 mos-2 yrs old. Tacky IMO. The parents and other people were sitting on the front porch watching with no expression at all. It was normal to them I guess.
The children, if older, might choose not to go naked. But that doesn't mean anything. There are plenty of children and adults who are perfectly willing to go naked on the beach.

I do believe that children only grow into wearing clothes all the time because we socialize them to wear clothes all the time. People who grew up in households where nudity was not in anyway frowned upon are less likely to view clothes as nessicary for being modest.

I personally feel there is a difference between being clothed and being modest. One can be modest while naked by not flaunting their body, while the opposite is also true, one can be immodest while wearing clothes by flaunting their body.
post #80 of 153
Sorry I didn't mean to use the words "just asking for it" I have a sick kid and she was upset and I was trying to post quickly, I apologize. It is never a child's fault as to why they were molested, ever.

I know that nothing I do will stop a pervert from thinking nasty thoughts but in my mind, if my toddler is naked, he is able to have even nastier ones vs. if she is fully clothed. And like the others, it's about modesty as well. Of course I worry about pervs in this world but I also don't think it's appriopate for a child to be naked in public.

That doesn't make it a wrong thing for me to think this? It's called an opinion and everyone has one. And just for the record, if there was a man staring at my child at the local pool, I would leave. I would not allow him to think sexually about my child.
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