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Intactivist conv with a stranger...related to a dog!!

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 
I was at the pet store with my Great Dane and a lady was admiring her and mentioned her ears being left intact (some people crop the ears of certain dog breeds) and she said "you know, I used to be against cropping ears, but then I had a doberman who had terrible infections, so I think I'd crop the ears if I ever got another long-eared breed."

I said "well, we prefer to leave our dog natural, we'll deal with infections if they present themselves, but lots of dog breeds have long ears and their ears aren't routinely cropped, beagles, bassets, etc. Same thing with our boys, we would never circumcize just to prevent infection, which is rare anyway, we would just treat it just like you treat a vaginal infection."

She looked at me, and said "I never thought of it that way! Why do surgery if there's no problem?" DING DING DING DING!

And I said "Yes, and not only that, this is the way my dog, and my sons, were created, so we're not going to alter either one of them without a darn good medical reason. There are things you can do to lessen the chance of infection ocurring in the first place, I'd much rather do that."

She just patted the dog one more time then walked away, looking introspective

Who knew that my DOG would be an intactivist tool!
post #2 of 18
Right on! Isn't it amazing what gets through to people?
post #3 of 18
post #4 of 18
Way-to-go pup! (and momma) :::

Now you planted a seed. Who knows what could come of it!
post #5 of 18
Good for you!
post #6 of 18
Had babies, specifically her having children/gkids or anything like that, come into the conversation? I dunno, I guess if I was having a conversation with someone about dogs, and ears, and then ALLOFASUDDENPENISES! I'd think it was at least odd, and quite possibly I might find it intrusive.
post #7 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorasMama View Post
Had babies, specifically her having children/gkids or anything like that, come into the conversation? I dunno, I guess if I was having a conversation with someone about dogs, and ears, and then ALLOFASUDDENPENISES! I'd think it was at least odd, and quite possibly I might find it intrusive.
you left out vaginal infection treatment.
I agree this would be extremely odd.
post #8 of 18
I don't really see how it was intrusive. She didn't ask the other woman if she circed her sons or had a vaginal infection she was just making an analogy.
post #9 of 18
I don't find it intrusive at all. There are so many ways to educate and I applaud anyone who takes the opportunity when it presents itself, especially with such a GREAT analogy. Education really needs to happen to get people to reevaluate what they have always known to be "true". If we are worried about stepping on toes and being intrusive, we might as well just quit. There is too much ignorance about circ and the intact male to pass on good opportunities like this one.
post #10 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorasMama View Post
Had babies, specifically her having children/gkids or anything like that, come into the conversation? I dunno, I guess if I was having a conversation with someone about dogs, and ears, and then ALLOFASUDDENPENISES! I'd think it was at least odd, and quite possibly I might find it intrusive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsd1amommy View Post
you left out vaginal infection treatment.
I agree this would be extremely odd.
Oh, sorry, yes, she was pregnant

I'm not normally a big intactivist, unless I'm talking to someone I know who is pregnant and we're discussing various baby issues. But in this case, our beliefs behind why we don't circumcize were exactly why we chose to leave our dog's ears intact, and my husband and I had just had the conversation ourselves, so it was fresh in my mind.
post #11 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by tutucrazy View Post
I don't find it intrusive at all. There are so many ways to educate and I applaud anyone who takes the opportunity when it presents itself, especially with such a GREAT analogy. Education really needs to happen to get people to reevaluate what they have always known to be "true". If we are worried about stepping on toes and being intrusive, we might as well just quit. There is too much ignorance about circ and the intact male to pass on good opportunities like this one.
i agree that we should take intactivist moments when we can but dog ears isn't the greatest analogy. people weren't breed dogs were. i don't crop, but some dogs were breed to have cropped ears,

i'm naking, and can't really get into my huge discussion, but search the forum if you're interested, i've mentioned it before here.

now, mentioning no one circs dogs.. thats fair game!
post #12 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriket View Post
i agree that we should take intactivist moments when we can but dog ears isn't the greatest analogy. people weren't breed dogs were. i don't crop, but some dogs were breed to have cropped ears,

i'm naking, and can't really get into my huge discussion, but search the forum if you're interested, i've mentioned it before here.

now, mentioning no one circs dogs.. thats fair game!
The reasoning SHE gave was because of infection, because danes have large-ish ears that could make them more prone. But no one ever suggests cropping a beagle's ears, for example.

Also, you're right that some dog breeds traditionally have cropped ears, but usually the reasoning was because they were fighting breeds, and the ears were often damaged (this is true for pits, dobbies, and danes). Danes were originally bred as boar hunters, if I remember correctly. Obviously my dog won't be hunting boars!! There are no dog breeds that are used today for the purpose they were bred for that would require cropping the ears. It's ridiculous for anyone to crop a dog's ears if that dog is a pet, because then it's only being done for cosmetic reasons or cleanliness, which I believe is wrong, and somewhat analagous to circ'ing boys.
post #13 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2boyzmama View Post
There are no dog breeds that are used today for the purpose they were bred for that would require cropping the ears. It's ridiculous for anyone to crop a dog's ears if that dog is a pet, because then it's only being done for cosmetic reasons or cleanliness, which I believe is wrong, and somewhat analagous to circ'ing boys.
partially agree. I used to be anti cropping, but then i got a min pincher. they were breed to run down rat holes and after rodents. this need to burrow has tore his ears up really badly. plus battles with the cat any way, i have never cropped anything, but i can understand why people do. the ears and to a lesser degree tails weren't breed very responsibly just like all the smoshed dogs that have breathing problems. people weren't breed, nature has taken out most of the useless bits we don't need to cut anything off.

plus i think there is some gravity to the difference between cutting the ears of an animal and the penis of a child. kwim?

eta: i just saw you're pg! congrats!
post #14 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2boyzmama View Post
There are no dog breeds that are used today for the purpose they were bred for that would require cropping the ears. It's ridiculous for anyone to crop a dog's ears if that dog is a pet, because then it's only being done for cosmetic reasons or cleanliness, which I believe is wrong, and somewhat analagous to circ'ing boys.
Somewhat analogous is an understatement!

From Wikipedia
Docking of the tail and ears are both procedures which have been subject to controversy in recent times. Proponents state that the procedures are not significantly painful and can prevent future health problems that cause more pain and risk of infection than the docking procedure. Proponents believe that docking done almost immediately after birth ensures that the wound heals easily and properly, claiming that whatever pain the procedure cause is a worthwhile trade off.

Docking of less than 10-14 days old puppies are routinely carried out by both breeders and veterinarians without anesthesia


Now substitute the words cropping/docking (ears/tails)for circumcision and see it that passage sounds familiar.

For anyone that thinks a conversation comparing mutilation of an animal with that of a child doesn't work from an intactavist POV, that's how my husband became staunchly anti circ. From a conversation we had early on in our relationship about dogs he'd like to own, that he would have had their ears cropped and tails docked. Until I went to work on him You'll often find people are more passionately compassionate about animals than children. Linking the two in their minds can be helpful.

It really is amazing what people accept as normal if they're exposed to it often enough. Coming from a country where ear cropping is illegal (as is tail docking now) the sight and thought of doing that to an animal repulses me.

It was a very short step in my then future husband and I's conversation about dogs to get to circumcision. Incredibly short. How on a board like this (culturally brainwashed Americans? No offense intended) people can't see the connection is beyond me! It's Cosmetic surgery on the defenseless and unconsenting. The fact that posters on an pro genital integrity board are even defending that shows how badly cultural norms can blind even the most logical thinker.
post #15 of 18
Whatever gets the point across!

I would rather offend someone (not sure how that is offensive) and save a baby boy than not saying anything and a baby boy getting circ'd.
post #16 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by homeschoolingmama View Post
Whatever gets the point across!

I would rather offend someone (not sure how that is offensive) and save a baby boy than not saying anything and a baby boy getting circ'd.
:
post #17 of 18
Good for you! Besides leaving our sons intact, we also left our dobie's ears intact.
post #18 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bea View Post
You'll often find people are more passionately compassionate about animals than children. Linking the two in their minds can be helpful.
: It's incredible how people cannot or will not link the two. I bet there are probably more vets who will not declaw cats than doctors who will not circumcise a baby boy

I think it is a fair analogy, and an important one too as it gets people thinking.

Take care,
Tara
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